Greninja's Moveset

[young grasshopper]

Imagine doing your jab combo to send them right to the shadow then BAM kicked in the face.

sounds easy is theory, but it would require EXTREMELY good timing

 

[Neo Zero]

As far as I could tell, you can't really act whole charging side B. Using it off other moves however was something I didn't even think of checking.

 

[Chaos Archangel]

Am.. am I allowed to keep posting these? o_O I hope I don't get moderated on my first day on these boards.

... Anyways, VGBootCamp managed to secure a video of Greninja's moves. Though the cam is shaky theres some good stuff here: Greninja

 

[Hong]

Am.. am I allowed to keep posting these? o_O I hope I don't get moderated on my first day on these boards.

As long as you post them in existing threads next time. I've moved it here.

 

[UnicornDemon]

So, are each of Greninja's specials basically just a copy/paste of other characters'?

Up B = Pikachu's Up B
Down B = Lucario's Down B
Side B = Generic Teleport (Sheik, Dimensional Cape, etc.) with the only difference being that you can charge it
Neutral B = Generic chargeable projectile
Final Smash = Generic "Hit an opponent right next to you to auto-KO them" type move. Seems exactly the same as Ike's, Link's, and so on

Kind of hype ruining. I was really excited about this character but his moveset seems disappointingly unoriginal.

 

[-dMT-]

So, are each of Greninja's specials basically just a copy/paste of other characters'?

Up B = Pikachu's Up B
Down B = Lucario's Down B
Side B = Generic Teleport (Sheik, Dimensional Cape, etc.) with the only difference being that you can charge it
Neutral B = Generic chargeable projectile
Final Smash = Generic "Hit an opponent right next to you to auto-KO them" type move. Seems exactly the same as Ike's, Link's, and so on

Kind of hype ruining. I was really excited about this character but his moveset seems disappointingly unoriginal.

With that much generalization, you can fit every character's moveset into a handful of templates lol.

 

[cheddarsword]

okay, so greninja isn't a clone of mewtwo... that's both good and bad. good if mewtwo does get back in, bad if mewtwo doesn't (because if he doesn't, it'd have been nice to have a replacement).

BUT, greninja still seems to be a clone. that Bair belongs to link kind of. lucario, mewtwo and samus wan't their idle B back, and fox and metaknight are filing lawsuits on the side B.

odd how a character can be unique by NOT being unique. perhaps these attacks are all just greninja using metronome... or maybe it's a mew in disguise, or a ditto...

well, greninja seems to be using it's plagiarism wisely (like peppy with bombs... LOL!) and looks to be a good character. heck, zelda was flattening everybody with it pretty good. IIRC though, she didn't win... eh, semantics. greninja still looks to own.

 

[KERO]

Honestly, no idea where so many people are getting the idea of Greninja being a clone from. Yes, he has a couple of attacks that look similar to some others, but so do most of the other characters. Mario, Luigi, Sheik, and Fox all share a Nair, Little Mac, Ganon, and DK all punch with their neutral B, and a ton of characters punch with jab. Wario, Fox, Falco, MK, Squirtle, and Falcon have side-bs that move them forward while attacking. Honestly, with your definition of clone, Fox and Mario could be clones of one another, or even Brawl Mario is a clone of Fox (spinning Dair, Bair is a kick, Nair is the same, and both have an unchargeable projectile). I'd say the only real argument for Greninja having a cloned move would be him having the same Up-B as Pika's since it's such a unique, defining recovery move (as opposed to something that's been standardized like a charged neutral B or the Nair that begins with a strong hitbox that transitions to a weaker hitbox).

A clone or semi-clone, as I understand it, has to share the same individualized special moveset as another single character (with a full clone also using most of the standard attacks of the original character) with variations in the effects of those moves.

Edit: Sorry if this post came off as a little arrogant or rude, but I don't want to see the term "clone" thrown around so haphazardly since it can be a bit of a negative buzzword.

 

[UnicornDemon]

Honestly, no idea where so many people are getting the idea of Greninja being a clone from. Yes, he has a couple of attacks that look similar to some others, but so do most of the other characters. Mario, Luigi, Sheik, and Fox all share a Nair, Little Mac, Ganon, and DK all punch with their neutral B, and a ton of characters punch with jab. Wario, Fox, Falco, MK, Squirtle, and Falcon have side-bs that move them forward while attacking. Honestly, with your definition of clone, Fox and Mario could be clones of one another, or even Brawl Mario is a clone of Fox (spinning Dair, Bair is a kick, Nair is the same, and both have an unchargeable projectile). I'd say the only real argument for Greninja having a cloned move would be him having the same Up-B as Pika's since it's such a unique, defining recovery move (as opposed to something that's been standardized like a charged neutral B or the Nair that begins with a strong hitbox that transitions to a weaker hitbox).

A clone or semi-clone, as I understand it, has to share the same individualized special moveset as another single character (with a full clone also using most of the standard attacks of the original character) with variations in the effects of those moves.

Edit: Sorry if this post came off as a little arrogant or rude, but I don't want to see the term "clone" thrown around so haphazardly since it can be a bit of a negative buzzword.

What about his down b/counter? Counters are nothing new, and it seems to operate quite similarly to Lucario's.

 

[cheddarsword]

greninja isn't a full on clone, but from what i've seen so far, he rips off several moves from several characters. he's not a "clone", he's a "greatist "hits" collection".

however, with him, lucario and mewtwo all three sharing a charge shot for neutral B, you gotta wonder why sakurai does what he does. i mean, samus and mega man are givens, and one of those 3, sure, i could see it. but all 3? someone has a dragonball complex.

 

[KERO]

Greninja's Substitute, while visually similar to Lucario's is more like Marth's or Ike's imo. Its invulnerability acts immediately unlike Lucario's slightly awkward timing, and its hitbox comes out faster than Lucario's for sure (but it doesn't cause hitlag, so it can still probably be shielded by really fast attacks). All in all, it's another counter, as in a standardized category at this point in the series unlike an up-p that can go in be angled twice in eight different directions.

Also, again, Greninja "rips off" from other characters as much as Sheik does from Fox or Rosalina does from Zelda. Characters with similar builds are going to have some standard attacks that bear passing resemblances to each other. The only point that I really can't argue is having three Pokemon share a similar neutral B, even though none of those attacks are charged in the actual Pokemon games. Must just be something Sakurai likes I guess. At least Greninja's is unique in that he can't store it and that it's a multi-hit projectile.

 

[Ape22]

From what I can gather, Greninja's special moves are as follows:

Neutral B = Water Shuriken

Chargeable multi-hitting projectile.

Side B = Shadow Sneak

Greninja's shadow moves across the ground. When the button is released, Greninja warps to that location.

Up B = Aqua Jet?

Recovery move similar to Pikachu's quick attack

Down B = Substitute

A counter that creates a log or a substitute doll

 

[Spirst]

From what I can gather, Greninja's special moves are as follows:

Neutral B = Water Shuriken

Chargeable multi-hitting projectile.

Side B = Shadow Sneak

Greninja's shadow moves across the ground. When the button is released, Greninja warps to that location.

Up B = Aqua Jet?

Recovery move similar to Pikachu's quick attack

Down B = Substitute

A counter that creates a log or a substitute doll

This is correct. His water shuriken seems to have some potential for edge guarding.

 

[Deleted member]

This is correct. His water shuriken seems to have some potential for edge guarding.

The multi-hit property is really what I love about the projectile. Sure, I may not be able to pocket it fully charged and use it later, but there's an odd sense of satisfaction from charging it anyways, similarly to charging a Smash attack simply because timing the release of it is everything.

 

[Spirst]

The multi-hit property is really what I love about the projectile. Sure, I may not be able to pocket it fully charged and use it later, but there's an odd sense of satisfaction from charging it anyways, similarly to charging a Smash attack simply because timing the release of it is everything.

The lack of being able to charge it and then store initially annoyed me a lot. After having seen a few videos of Greninja gameplay, it doesn't bother me all too much anymore. The timing of it is key but seems worthwhile.

 

[Dendros]

It seems to me that greninja has a move that can do almost anything. He is definitely looking to be one of the most versatile fighters this time around.

 

[-dMT-]

It seems to me that greninja has a move that can do almost anything. He is definitely looking to be one of the most versatile fighters this time around.

Except KO, amirite?

Feels like Brawl Sheik all over again lol.

 

[Marilink]

Except KO, amirite?

Feels like Brawl Sheik all over again lol.

When I played the Best Buy Smash build, Shadow Sneak and Usmash both had very good KO potential.

 

[-dMT-]

When I played the Best Buy Smash build, Shadow Sneak and Usmash both had very good KO potential.

Brawl Sheik killed well with usmash and vanish as well.

A lack of aerial killers is really Greninja's shortcoming... at least that's how it felt.

 

[bc1910]

Greninja's not the most popular character on streams but I've still seen plenty of gameplay so I thought I'd share my observations.

Firstly his movement looks amazing. Really fast dash and high jumps. At first I was worried about him having a high short hop since that's rarely desirable but his aerials seem to suit his high jumps really well. His huge jumps allow him to get combos from up throw at really high percents.

His normals seem pretty good. Nice range on all his tilts, Dtilt seems to act as a combo starter and Utilt can start or extend combos. For spacing, Ftilt seems okay, although I think it has pretty significant lag on both startup and recovery. Jab seems like a really good damage racker and chasing the opponent after the finisher looks plausible since Greninja dashes so fast. His dash attack looks incredible, has practically no ending lag and several guaranteed follow ups. DA -> Usmash seems to frame trap airdodges. Smashes all seem pretty good, Usmash in particular has really good kill power and is nowhere near as laggy as it looks in his trailer. Probably not even as laggy as it was in the E3 build. Fsmash will start killing eventually, it doesn't look as good as Usmash but it's still an option. It has good range and is probably disjointed since he uses a sword, although I wouldn't like to say for sure at this point. Dsmash is the least powerful but has that killer horizontal knockback, similar to Melee Sheik's Fair just not quite as good. Should be useful for edgeguarding.

Fthrow and Bthrow look pretty standard and will set up for edgeguards, but Uthrow seems to have had a massive ending lag buff since E3 and now allows for guaranteed follow-ups. Uthrow -> Uair works at most percents and will kill relatively early. I haven't seen much of Dthrow, I don't know whether it allows for follow-ups (guaranteed or not) but I've heard that it does. Doesn't really matter since Uthrow seems to get the job done as far as combos go.

His aerials seem really good, one of the best sets of aerials overall IMO. Nair works a bit like Pikachu's but seems better for combos and doesn't have much landing lag. Apparently he can follow Dthrow up with Nair at certain percents, which would be cool. I think Fair will grow on people, it's a laggy move but there's definitely some power behind it; I've seen it kill Bowser at pretty reasonable percents, and he's insanely heavy. Uair is incredible, it can be used to combo AND kill at reasonably low percents especially if it's used from Uthrow. It hits multiple times before ejecting the opponent and apparently has suction properties on its multi-hit hitbox, allowing for fastfalled Uair to combo into Utilt and other moves. Dair is Dair, everyone knows what that move's like by now and you'll probably love it or hate it. It seems useless at low percents since Greninja bounces too high to follow up, but it's great for high percent combos which IMO is preferable (it's not like Greninja lacks low percent combo options). I haven't seen enough of Bair which really disappoints me since I love what I have seen; it has good knockback and range.

Specials seem pretty tricky. Water Shuriken looks nerfed since the E3 build, the fully charged version disappears pretty quickly and seems to have a lot of ending lag so Greninja can't chase it so easily. I don't like the lag on Shadow Sneak but maybe people are just using it in the wrong situations. I think it will end up being a better counter than Substitute, which sadly looks kind of bad since Greninja takes SO long to counterattack and the opponent can just shield or roll away. Up B (Hydro Pump?) looks amazing, similar to Pikachu's, but I don't think it works at exactly the same angles. I'd like to explore this move as an onstage movement option and also an edgeguarding option, since it pushes people back like Mario's FLUDD. I think Greninja's specials will take a lot of getting used to, they can't just be thrown out whenever you feel like it.

 

[Chiroz]

Greninja's not the most popular character on streams but I've still seen plenty of gameplay so I thought I'd share my observations.

Firstly his movement looks amazing. Really fast dash and high jumps. At first I was worried about him having a high short hop since that's rarely desirable but his aerials seem to suit his high jumps really well. His huge jumps allow him to get combos from up throw at really high percents.

His normals seem pretty good. Nice range on all his tilts, Dtilt seems to act as a combo starter and Utilt can start or extend combos. For spacing, Ftilt seems okay, although I think it has pretty significant lag on both startup and recovery. Jab seems like a really good damage racker and chasing the opponent after the finisher looks plausible since Greninja dashes so fast. His dash attack looks incredible, has practically no ending lag and several guaranteed follow ups. DA -> Usmash seems to frame trap airdodges. Smashes all seem pretty good, Usmash in particular has really good kill power and is nowhere near as laggy as it looks in his trailer. Probably not even as laggy as it was in the E3 build. Fsmash will start killing eventually, it doesn't look as good as Usmash but it's still an option. It has good range and is probably disjointed since he uses a sword, although I wouldn't like to say for sure at this point. Dsmash is the least powerful but has that killer horizontal knockback, similar to Melee Sheik's Fair just not quite as good. Should be useful for edgeguarding.

Fthrow and Bthrow look pretty standard and will set up for edgeguards, but Uthrow seems to have had a massive ending lag buff since E3 and now allows for guaranteed follow-ups. Uthrow -> Uair works at most percents and will kill relatively early. I haven't seen much of Dthrow, I don't know whether it allows for follow-ups (guaranteed or not) but I've heard that it does. Doesn't really matter since Uthrow seems to get the job done as far as combos go.

His aerials seem really good, one of the best sets of aerials overall IMO. Nair works a bit like Pikachu's but seems better for combos and doesn't have much landing lag. Apparently he can follow Dthrow up with Nair at certain percents, which would be cool. I think Fair will grow on people, it's a laggy move but there's definitely some power behind it; I've seen it kill Bowser at pretty reasonable percents, and he's insanely heavy. Uair is incredible, it can be used to combo AND kill at reasonably low percents especially if it's used from Uthrow. It hits multiple times before ejecting the opponent and apparently has suction properties on its multi-hit hitbox, allowing for fastfalled Uair to combo into Utilt and other moves. Dair is Dair, everyone knows what that move's like by now and you'll probably love it or hate it. It seems useless at low percents since Greninja bounces too high to follow up, but it's great for high percent combos which IMO is preferable (it's not like Greninja lacks low percent combo options). I haven't seen enough of Bair which really disappoints me since I love what I have seen; it has good knockback and range.

Specials seem pretty tricky. Water Shuriken looks nerfed since the E3 build, the fully charged version disappears pretty quickly and seems to have a lot of ending lag so Greninja can't chase it so easily. I don't like the lag on Shadow Sneak but maybe people are just using it in the wrong situations. I think it will end up being a better counter than Substitute, which sadly looks kind of bad since Greninja takes SO long to counterattack and the opponent can just shield or roll away. Up B (Hydro Pump?) looks amazing, similar to Pikachu's, but I don't think it works at exactly the same angles. I'd like to explore this move as an onstage movement option and also an edgeguarding option, since it pushes people back like Mario's FLUDD. I think Greninja's specials will take a lot of getting used to, they can't just be thrown out whenever you feel like it.

I agree with most of these points. Some things to note:

N-Air has a lot of start up lag. It also has a lot of knockback which doesn't really allow you to combo. I feel it's a good move but it's uses are limited.

Up-B as an onstage movement mechanic sounds good but Up-B lags A LOT when you land it also makes you slide quite far. There might be ways to use this to your advantage, but as of now it doesn't look like using it as a movement tool, apart from the obvious getting the **** away option, is actually viable.

Also, Shadow Sneak lags a lot, a lot. You should either use it as a combo finisher, a kill move or just a "get the **** away" move. You can also use it for a hard read or a punish. It hits hard.

 

[Gunla]

Cleaning up this subforum, so I'm locking a few threads.

Greninja's moveset in full (with the exception of damage values and some photos) has been added to the Moveset & General Information Thread, so please take discussion of Greninja's moveset there.