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Guide to Playing Competitve Doubles please comment

comboking

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 12, 2008
Messages
3,038
Location
MidWest
I'm writing this guide mainly because of how me and my partner got owned at my last doubles tourney. Some people are really good in singles but their doubles's skill, however, is severely lacking, and as doubles are getting more popular I think its important for us smashers not to just focus on singles but on doubles as well. This guide is also more of a collaborative guide so anyone can give tips, correct errors, etc. I will update this guide regularly and add information if deemed necessary. So here's my guide and feel post anything you know about doubles. :)

---------------------------------------------------------------
Table of Contents-A Guide To Competitive Doubles
----------------------------------------------------------------















I. Basics
1. Rules of Doubles​
2 . Communication/Decision​
2A. Introduction​
2B. Pre-Game/In Between Games
2C. During A Match ~To be Finished~​
II. Combinations(To be added later)
1. Character Combinations​
2 . Stage Combinations​
III. Tactics(To be added later)
1. 2v2 Stuff​
2. 2v1 Stuff​
IV. Doubles Only Stuff(To be added/completed later)
1. General Stuff​
2.2v2 Stuff​
3. 2v1 Stuff~To be Finished~​
---------------------------------------------------------------
I- Basics
---------------------------------------------------------------
1. Rules Of Doubles
These are doubles only rule excerpts I took from MLGPRO.COM's rules page


2 .Communication/Decision

2A)Introduction
This is where it all starts from the moment you pick up your controller to the moment the match ends you have opportunities to talk to your partner. I can't stress this enough this is one of the most important aspects of teams, while it may not matter against opponents who are just scrubs it will help give you the edge that may be needed to beat those other smashers. To better communicate you need to have a teammate that will listen to you, and respect your ideas. Why is communication important? It helps you and your partner know what each other are doing so you can better work together.

Before the match starts off let me say this it is preferable that you sit next to your partner so you can talk to him/her more easily. Now onto the next section...

2B)Pre-Game/In Between Games
What Character should I pick? What Character should my Teammate be? These are all common questions that are asked before the match starts. It is important that you and your partner decide on a team together and you both feel right about playing those characters. Maybe you don't feel a certain character combination will work, or maybe you feel that your teammate hasn't fully devolved the character he picked yet, these are all things you should let your partner know because if not you could end up starting the match already at a disadvantage.

Now if you can't agree on a character combination try to reason with your partner and if you cannot remember this: It is more important that you are comfortable with a character then one that makes a better combination or one you are more skilled with. Let me give you an example: If I'm Falcon and my friend is Marth but I'm not really feeling comfortable with my falcon and I SD like three times that would be worse then going with another character like Samus that you are more comfortable with but wouldn't be exactly as good combination as falcon would. Remember above all to make sure you and your partner enter the match with a combination you feel has the best chance not combinations that just look good on paper (e.g. Falcon/Marth, Sheik/Marth, Fox/Falco etc.).

Now you've decided your characters and the first game has already ended and you have lost. You and your partner need to decide on what to counter pick on your opponents. Always consider these factors before counter picking:
  • Is it a stage me and my partner are comfortable with?
  • Is it a stage that our next character combination will work well with?
  • Will my opponents be at a disadvantage if we chose this stage?
  • Will my opponents most likely not change characters if I pick this stage? If they do change am I still ready?
If you answered yes to all of these questions you are ready to select your counter pick but first ask your partner if he thinks its the stage is an okay idea and if a character change is needed let him know. If your partner comes up with an even better idea then go with it after all you are a team. If all turns out well you could end up winning the match, and if you did so because of your counter pick congratulations, you won because of thought not playing skill.

2C)During A Match ~To be Finished~
Why is communication important in the middle of a match? Well, unless your Isai whose just too good you may not be that aware of all that is going on around you. Instead of keeping track of one other player and yourself you need to keep track of three other players in addition to yourself this obviously is much harder. To help give your team an advantage you can talk to your partner so he/she can become better aware of their environment and so can you. Just a simple "help me" or "get this guy of my back" can help your partner realize you need help. Let me me put it to you like this; Usually when I'm fighting my opponent all I'm focusing on is me and my opponent and I don't even realize what my friend is doing but if he says "help me" I rush over to help him with what he needs whether its help recovering or help fighting an opponent I trust that my friend knows what he's saying and really needs my help.


Employing these simple ideas of communication can help you get better at doubles, however, it is not the only factor that makes a successful team as I will later discuss.

---------------------------------------------------------------
II-Combinations
---------------------------------------------------------------
1. Character Combinations

2. Stage Combinations

---------------------------------------------------------------
III-Tactics
---------------------------------------------------------------
1. Introduction

---------------------------------------------------------------
IV- Doubles Only Stuff
---------------------------------------------------------------
*Note Player A means you, Player B is your partner, Player C is one of your opponents and Player D is the other one.


1.General Stuff
Grab Invincibility: Many do not know this but when you grab someone you get a few frames of invincibility preventing the opponent from interrupting your grab.

2.2v2 Stuff

3. 2v1 Stuff ~To be Finished~

Ken&Isai Infinite- 0 To Death
I'm not sure the exact real name of this move but this move was made famous when Ken and Isai used it on Groomblue (Azen & Chillin) during the 2005 MLG Nationals. Heres how its done. Now lets assume you are the grabber. In order to do this infinite you must grab either player C or D(basically whoever is remaining) after this your partner must walk up and start jabbing(AAA) away at the opponent as much as he/she can without hitting you. The opponent is then unable to escape the grab and you are able to do as much damage to him/her as you like. This move should only usually be attempted when you are in a 2v1 situation in your favor because if not it can be easily interrupted and very punishable.
To be finished later
some people who helped are but not limited too. sFoster Chris Lionheart DwaynBibad


NOTE: Don't go and learn a new character your main will be fine!

1.Who should be your partner
Your partner should be some one who lives fairly close to you so you can practice on a basis that you will get better basicly don't team at a tourney with some guy in the midwest when you live in New York because you might not get to see his playstyle
Have someone who works well with your play style do you go for spikes all the time do you use combos or do you spam smashes or you might be a grabbing kind of person

In my opinion I choose my friend he has been one of my best friends for Four years this is a good thing to do because we can talk thing out and basicly tell them anything and that will help us stay insync.

2.good tactics

pretend Your partner is at a higher %, you are at a low % and you just killed an opponent.
At this point, you should be the one engaging the opponent that just respawned.

Because your partner is at a high %, and your respawned opponent has no dimished returns, he will likely kill your partner very easily.. so force him to fight you instead and if somebody has to get hit at all that person is better off being you..


Also you can have different strategies depending on if team attack is on or off..
If team attack is off, it's easy to have your partner grab somebody and then you smash them.

Obviously this is not as effective with team attack on.

Projectile characters are extremely useful in 2v2..
It can interrupt grabs from across the screen, or if you play with items it can interrupt a fan smacking

What Characters to use
I'ld like to add that the combination of characters should work well together in some way. For example, one should focus on damage racking and/or some support (ex. projectiles, sonic's spring, Snake's stage traps) while the other can specialize in scoring kills for the team (Ike, Ganon, Bowser, and Snake for this function.


So what character's can contribute heavily to these functions:

Spot 1 The Damage Racker and/or Utility
1) Pit- Pit can contribute a lot to damage through fast melee hits or spammable projectile interrupts. He is very self reliant with 2 reflects (3 if you count the conditional deflect on B-Up) and a very good recovery.

2) Sonic- Sonic was practically made for doubles. His fast speed and attacks make him great for racking damage, though he relies on his team-mate to score kills. He especially excels in item matches.
*Note- Sonic's spring (when used on the ground) can be used by your ally as well, for some minimal aerial game support, but note it can also be used by the foes.

3) Meta-Knight- Meta-Knight is a powerful damage racker and capable of killing foes on his own. Probably not as effective as Pit in this slot due to the lack of projectiles and less defense.

4) Snake- Snake's strong projectile and stage trapping abilities give the team the valuable ability to camp. Snake can just as easily make the killing slot, however.

5) Marth- Not much worse than his melee iteration, Marth is still a viable character for racking up the foes damage and finishing him off. Marth is a beast in the hands of a skilled player.

6) Zelda/Sheik- This character is unique because by switching it can be both a damage racker and a finisher in one. It is worth noting that Zelda brings a valuable boost to projectile game to the team.

7) Any other fast character with useful combos. (I'll leave that up to you to type :)) Pikachu, Kirby, Diddy, and ZSS would probably qualify, though.


Slot 2 Killer
The killer slot is much more broad, as many characters that excel in finishing foes are also good at damage racking or even utility purposes (projectile's, camping, etc.)

1) Ike- Ike is very effective at killing but lacks speed, so the damage racker may need to hold the target.

2) D3- D3 is a very powerful character for killing opponents and also brings other abilities to the battle (chaingrabs being the most notable). It is worth noting that he can be useful in countering enemy Snakes to an extent.

3) Snake- Snake possesses powerful tilts for finishing opponents off. He also has a very strong projectile and camping game, giving the team more versatility.

4) Zelda/Sheik- *read the reasons in the spot one listing*

5) Lucas- Some of Lucas's smashes (up-smash in particular) are devastating to medium/highly damaged opponents. Only recommended for use by an experienced Lucas/Ness player, due to a difficult recovery and long learning curve.

6) Bowser or Donkey Kong orIke- These characters have strong killing moves (and fair speed compared to characters like Ganon) but can be lacking tactically.

7) Ganondorf- A character with many extremely powerful killing moves (Volcano Kick, Smashes, D-air, to name a few). The downside is that he is one of the game's slowest (and largest) characters.

Some other characters that might be useful for spot 2:
Pit- adds additional damage racking and projectiles and has some fairly reliable killing moves, especially when another character racking damage is available.
Meta-Knight- Most of the same reasons as pit.

Item givers,
Obviously this is useless if you're doing an item battle, but in non item rules, certain characters can cover the weaknesses of other characters (like Sonic) simply by generating items for them to throw at their opponents. Example characters include
Peach
Zamus
Wario (the big characters such as Bowser, are not encumbered when picking up Wario's bike)
Diddy
DeDeDe?

Crowd Control
These characters have special unique abilities that help the partner land their Smash attacks. However their main focus is to interrupt any team strategies that their opponents are cooking up by spamming these moves.
Metaknight's Tornado
Bowser's Flamethrower
Falco's Shield Toss
Pikachu's Thunder
Link's Sword Spin and Boomerang.
Yoshi's eat and poop

Kamakazi
A very simple and effective strategy is to have a partner with Kamakazi abilities. The goal is to find the weakest link in the team and then double team him as much as possible. If you can successfully knock a stock or two off that player, your partner can finish him off by using their double kill throws to take him out the fight early. Leaving at least one stock left for the Kazi partner and almost full stock for the main player, you can then double team the tough opponent, and possibly Kamakazi on him as well. Examples include
Bowser
Ganondorf
Kirby?
Snake (He can hold grenades and just run into the other players. He takes little damage from the explosion while everyone else takes a lot)

2vs1
this is a technique I call chainfailing
you grab hit make your character let go and have your partner grab him and repeat as many times as nessacary
here is a video of the techniquehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?
v=91cCx7MxLKc&feature=user it is used at the end

2VS2
"The Human Shield." A characters like Pit, Fox, Falco, Wolf and to a lesser extent, Mario, Lucas and Ness, can protect their team mate against proectile, letting the partner spam projectile from behind them in the interim. Mario does have the added addition of being able to space rushing opponents back with FLUDD to buy a couple of seconds.

Another thing to keep in mind would be the use of very obvious play strategies. If your opponents are both Snake, it should be fairly obvious what's about to happen, don't let them set you and your partner up for it, let them know what you think you should do to counter. Tactic by InfernoRage1
 

Deathanchor

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 12, 2007
Messages
139
Location
Chicago suburb
You should probably include a larger section on choosing a partner that's right for you, and some character pairs that work well and why. Like for example I know that as an Ike player in a team match my job is to deliver the final blow. So to balance that out I'd want a partner that is quick and can rack up the fastest damage per second that would allow me to earn that KO. So that means maybe a good partner would be meta knight or a fox. Can you think of any other characters that would support an Ike player well?
 

comboking

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 12, 2008
Messages
3,038
Location
MidWest
Im not done yet and for ike you want someone fast to cover up his slowness

like prince of tennis don't you
 

Twin Dreams

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 20, 2005
Messages
820
Location
Pittsburgh, PA
actually, imo, Ike is the other player's fall back. Basically, I would get a character that does good damage and have him fight one guy while Ike keeps the opponents separated.
 

comboking

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 12, 2008
Messages
3,038
Location
MidWest
I want to say pit but I am not sure




While lost, trying to find his way to a smashfest, a cop walks up to Epic from a suspicion call...

Cop: "What are you doing around here."
Epic: "Trying to find an address."
Cop: "You know this fella?"
Epic: "Yeah we play with each other..."

what happened after he said that
 

comboking

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 12, 2008
Messages
3,038
Location
MidWest
I like it too and no it is not for chicks if it was there would be girls playing tennis instead of guys but then again that could make it more for guy JK LOL HAHAHA
 

Tyson651

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
1,643
.. i dunno why u would bump it twice, with basically, little to useless info. this guide needs more, cause basically its stating the obvious at the moment.
 

comboking

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 12, 2008
Messages
3,038
Location
MidWest
I know but people can post information for me to put in my guide so if they could help me they could!
 

sFoster

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 21, 2008
Messages
339
ugh this guide is pretty useless right now lol
don't try to conver specific character combinations because there are almost 1200 possibilities.

Focus more on general 2v2 strategies..

For example:

Your partner is at a higher %, you are at a low % and you just killed an opponent.
At this point, you should be the one engaging the opponent that just respawned.

Because your partner is at a high %, and your respawned opponent has no dimished returns, he will likely kill your partner very easily.. so force him to fight you instead and if somebody has to get hit at all that person is better off being you..


Also you can have different strategies depending on if team attack is on or off..
If team attack is off, it's easy to have your partner grab somebody and then you smash them.

Obviously this is not as effective with team attack on.

Projectile characters are extremely useful in 2v2..
It can interrupt grabs from across the screen, or if you play with items it can interrupt a fan smacking..
 

Chris Lionheart

Smash Champion
Joined
Apr 6, 2008
Messages
2,076
Location
Make Your Move
I'ld like to add that the combination of characters should work well together in some way. For example, one should focus on damage racking and/or some support (ex. projectiles, sonic's spring, Snake's stage traps) while the other can specialize in scoring kills for the team (Ike, Ganon, Bowser, and Snake for this function.


So what character's can contribute heavily to these functions:

Spot 1 The Damage Racker and/or Utility
1) Pit- Pit can contribute a lot to damage through fast melee hits or spammable projectile interrupts. He is very self reliant with 2 reflects (3 if you count the conditional deflect on B-Up) and a very good recovery.

2) Sonic- Sonic was practically made for doubles. His fast speed and attacks make him great for racking damage, though he relies on his team-mate to score kills. He especially excels in item matches.
*Note- Sonic's spring (when used on the ground) can be used by your ally as well, for some minimal aerial game support, but note it can also be used by the foes.

3) Meta-Knight- Meta-Knight is a powerful damage racker and capable of killing foes on his own. Probably not as effective as Pit in this slot due to the lack of projectiles and less defense.

4) Snake- Snake's strong projectile and stage trapping abilities give the team the valuable ability to camp. Snake can just as easily make the killing slot, however.

5) Marth- Not much worse than his melee iteration, Marth is still a viable character for racking up the foes damage and finishing him off. Marth is a beast in the hands of a skilled player.

6) Zelda/Sheik- This character is unique because by switching it can be both a damage racker and a finisher in one. It is worth noting that Zelda brings a valuable boost to projectile game to the team.

7) Any other fast character with useful combos. (I'll leave that up to you to type :)) Pikachu, Kirby, Diddy, and ZSS would probably qualify, though.


Slot 2 Killer
The killer slot is much more broad, as many characters that excel in finishing foes are also good at damage racking or even utility purposes (projectile's, camping, etc.)
1) Ike- Ike is very effective at killing but lacks speed, so the damage racker may need to hold the target.

2) D3- D3 is a very powerful character for killing opponents and also brings other abilities to the battle (chaingrabs being the most notable). It is worth noting that he can be useful in countering enemy Snakes to an extent.

3) Snake- Snake possesses powerful tilts for finishing opponents off. He also has a very strong projectile and camping game, giving the team more versatility.

4) Zelda/Sheik- *read the reasons in the spot one listing*

5) Lucas- Some of Lucas's smashes (up-smash in particular) are devastating to medium/highly damaged opponents. Only recommended for use by an experienced Lucas/Ness player, due to a difficult recovery and long learning curve.

6) Bowser or Donkey Kong- These characters have strong killing moves (and fair speed compared to characters like Ike and Ganon) but can be lacking tactically.

7) Ganondorf- A character with many extremely powerful killing moves (Volcano Kick, Smashes, D-air, to name a few). The downside is that he is one of the game's slowest (and largest) characters.

Some other characters that might be useful for spot 2:
Pit- adds additional damage racking and projectiles and has some fairly reliable killing moves, especially when another character racking damage is available.
Meta-Knight- Most of the same reasons as pit.


*Note- Numbers are not ranks, merely a listing. I'll let you set the ranks if you wish.


Ofc I'm basing most of this on common sense (and things I've read about characters on this site), as I have not had a lot of brawl experience (but a good amount of melee experience).
 

Megavitamins

Smash Champion
Joined
Jul 22, 2007
Messages
2,418
Location
Flaming Europe.
I find Rob deccent in doubles, just cuz he can live extremely long, and has some nice projectiles. Can kill an enemy if they're not expecting it. Kinda like Samus in melee :)
 

Eaode

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 4, 2006
Messages
2,923
Location
Glen Cove/RIT, New York.
Yeah I find ROB is still great in doubles. His dsmash provides excellent crowd control, his laser is an awesome disruptor from across the stage, to get your partner out of a sticky situation. His upsmash is like a surprise killer, and he holds stocks really well. Plus, he can be a gimp machine if you're playing against someone with less than spectacular recovery.

Also, metanight is really good at saving teammates.
 

epic of DE

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 27, 2008
Messages
223
Location
Newark, DE (only a mile from University of Delawar
I'm glad to see that Ganon gained some consideration in team battles with his excellent kill potential. I believe that ganon could perhaps work very well with a strong air character like wario or Metaknight as Ganon has multiple kill options along with being able to send characters off the stage easily but has difficulty performing many efficient forms of edge-guards.
(Curse NoVa's sig. I should've never told him about that...)
 

epic of DE

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 27, 2008
Messages
223
Location
Newark, DE (only a mile from University of Delawar
Lol NoVa, to anyone else that sig. will be nothing but a mystery.

Those three characters you mentioned are very good choices since as an individual they are proficient killing characters. I still wonder though, what character will be extremely good in team battles since I think Wario might be a great option for almost any character to team with since he can do..."interesting" things in combat
 

Valzek

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 14, 2008
Messages
16
Location
East Coast
So basically you're taking what people say and using it to process your guide? Doesn't really make it your guide now does it? Oh well, carry on.
 

DwaynBibad

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 21, 2008
Messages
25
Location
Philadelphia
I really like this guide and I hope that it does encourage players to try out 2vs2 battling as I find it a lot more enjoyable than 1v1 battling. I think it's really important for each player to know their role in the team in order for the whole group to be effective so I think the roles should be broken down more than simply damage rackers and smashers. Here's some ideas for tell me if you like it.

Item givers,
Obviously this is useless if you're doing an item battle, but in non item rules, certain characters can cover the weaknesses of other characters (like Sonic) simply by generating items for them to throw at their opponents. Example characters include
Peach
Zamus
Wario (the big characters such as Bowser, are not encumbered when picking up Wario's bike)
Diddy
DeDeDe?

Crowd Control
These characters have special unique abilities that help the partner land their Smash attacks. However their main focus is to interrupt any team strategies that their opponents are cooking up by spamming these moves.
Metaknight's Tornado
Bowser's Flamethrower
Falco's Shield Toss
Pikachu's Thunder
Link's Sword Spin and Boomerang.
Yoshi's eat and poop

Kamakazi
A very simple and effective strategy is to have a partner with Kamakazi abilities. The goal is to find the weakest link in the team and then double team him as much as possible. If you can successfully knock a stock or two off that player, your partner can finish him off by using their double kill throws to take him out the fight early. Leaving at least one stock left for the Kazi partner and almost full stock for the main player, you can then double team the tough opponent, and possibly Kamakazi on him as well. Examples include
Bowser
Ganondorf
Kirby?
Snake (He can hold grenades and just run into the other players. He takes little damage from the explosion while everyone else takes a lot)

okay cya later.
 
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