Hacks online will get you banned?

[Nidtendofreak]

How do they know that it won't get to a point where it affects others who aren't hacking more so then it already has? I've seen videos of people being permanently WarioMan and Gigabowser. Again, I point at MP:H and MK:Wii. The hacking in those games affect others, precautionary action in one of their most, if not most, used online game for the Wii is perfectly reasonable. What they know is that THEIR stuff is being used in a way they did not intend, and they wish to change so, partly at least to project others people's experiences online. From a moral standpoint, they are doing the right thing. If car companies knew who would use their vehicles for crimes, do you think they would still sell them the vehicle? A bit of an extreme example, but same principal.

And it doesn't matter if it's "douchebag" like or not: still their right and it is what they have decided to do. No amount of whining is going to change it.

 

[leafgreen386]

It's THEIR game. It's THEIR system. It's THEIR characters. It's THEIR remotes. It's THEIR copyrights. You think they should have nothing to say about it?

That's not logical at all. It's all their stuff, they can do what ever the heck they want with it. If they want to shut down all online hacking for whatever reason, they have every right to do so. If they wanted to, they could permanently brick or permanently bad online use of every single Wii they found that was hacked.

If you mess around with a company's stuff in a way they don't wish, they can take action. Nintendo is choosing to do so, and has every right to do so. It's your own risk, but their right.

Um... no? It isn't their system. It isn't their game. It may be their copyrights but that doesn't mean jack. You own the system and the game. You can do whatever you want with it, as long as your use of it does not violate any existing laws. What does nintendo control? Their servers and the wii network service. That is it. They have the right to suspend you from online play, but they certainly don't have the right to brick your wii for it, or for finding something on your wii they don't like. A company does not have ultimate power. They can only control what they distribute at the moment. Once a product is in consumer hands, it is out of their control. Therefore, they don't have the right to mess with your personal use of the system. It would be comparable to microsoft disabling every instance of firefox, safari, chrome, or any other browser they find on a person's computer with windows installed. If you want to use firefox with windows, not internet explorer, you have the right to do so.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Um... no? It isn't their system. It isn't their game. It may be their copyrights but that doesn't mean jack. You own the system and the game. You can do whatever you want with it, as long as your use of it does not violate any existing laws. What does nintendo control? Their servers and the wii network service. That is it. They have the right to suspend you from online play, but they certainly don't have the right to brick your wii for it, or for finding something on your wii they don't like. A company does not have ultimate power. They can only control what they distribute at the moment. Once a product is in consumer hands, it is out of their control. They don't have the right to mess with your personal use of the system, plain and simple. It would be comparable to microsoft disabling every instance of firefox, safari, chrome, or any other browser they find on a person's computer with windows installed. If you want to use firefox with windows, not internet explorer, you have the right to do so.

Firefox, safari etc = other legal internet sources.

HBC =/= fully legal to use, or whatever technicality part of it it is so that we can't talk about some aspect of it here. (Don't have it, so not 100% sure. Before you start hating on me for talking about this without having it: I plan on having it once I get an SD card reader)

Was bricking overboard? Yes, I'll admit that. But they can still ban you from Wifi use. You are using something they don't want you to use on their severs. Same reason that other games and game companies deal with hackers: they don't want them, and it's their right to act on it. Why do you think you have to update punkbuster on games like America's Army?

And MS already tried something close to that with the internet thing (got brought to court about monopoly attempts), so that wasn't the best example leaf. >_>

 

[Ryusuta]

How do they know that it won't get to a point where it affects others who aren't hacking more so then it already has? I've seen videos of people being permanently WarioMan and Gigabowser.

That's the "slippery slope" fallacy. There's no real evidence indicating a significant detrimental increase in gameplay-altering activity.

But to allow for the distinction, it's a very simple situation to handle: if someone is affecting gameplay on Basic Brawls or anything that doesn't require a friend code, ban them. This is because they are capable of affecting someone else without their consent, with no possible repercussions on their part.

If someone is doing any hacking on With Friends matches, leave them alone. This is because the exchange of friend codes is an implicit agreement for one. The fact that most of the more popular and commonly-used codes either need to be used by both parties or have no affect on the gameplay is another reason. Finally, if codes are employed without the other person's consent and the other person disapproves, he is free to erase that person's friend code and is therefore no longer affected.

If car companies knew who would use their vehicles for crimes, do you think they would still sell them the vehicle? A bit of an extreme example, but same principal.

Yes, but how far should that principle extend? Should everyone require a criminal background check and government profile in order to buy a car? Do you feel like their car should be repossessed if they happened to have committed a crime while in possession of the vehicle? There is a certain point in which the consumer should have some leeway with the product; if not for legal reason or moral ones, then simply for practical ones. It takes time, effort, and often money to go around policing the things you sell. The end result is NOT worth the investment.

And that's another thing. Let's lay this out on the line for a second. Nintendo, bottom line, end-of-story, written-in-stone... CAN'T win this war. Period. I mean this. They can't. It will not ****ing happen, I will bet every cent I have on that pony. There is no perfect lock, either in literal terms or electronic terms. In the end, hackers will ALWAYS find a way around precautionary measures in order to do what they want to do with the product they own. You simply can't stop them. Sony has been trying it for nearly a decade now, and is no closer at this point than they were when they started. And - sad but true - Sony is a lot more experienced and talented at it than Nintendo ever will be.

So, the entire stand they're taking is totally impractical, even disregarding every other single issue on the subject.

And it doesn't matter if it's "douchebag" like or not: still their right and it is what they have decided to do. No amount of whining is going to change it.

As long as we're acknowledging that what they're doing is stupid, wrong, and unnecessary, I'll certainly concede this point.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

That's the "slippery slope" fallacy. There's no real evidence indicating a significant detrimental increase in gameplay-altering activity.

But to allow for the distinction, it's a very simple situation to handle: if someone is affecting gameplay on Basic Brawls or anything that doesn't require a friend code, ban them. This is because they are capable of affecting someone else without their consent, with no possible repercussions on their part.

If someone is doing any hacking on With Friends matches, leave them alone. This is because the exchange of friend codes is an implicit agreement for one. The fact that most of the more popular and commonly-used codes either need to be used by both parties or have no affect on the gameplay is another reason. Finally, if codes are employed without the other person's consent and the other person disapproves, he is free to erase that person's friend code and is therefore no longer affected.

How do they know if you won't affect people who are playing basic brawl later down the line? Yes it's a slippery slope, but to what extent? The slope would only affect people with active hacks, which is who Nintendo is targeting. It won't affect anyone else, so quite frankly: the slope doesn't matter to them. If they wish to deal with hacking in preventive ways, they will. And it is "technically" possible to play with people you don't know through FCs (friend of a friend), and they can start hacking. So technically you can still be affected when playing with friends. Is it a much smaller issue then playing in Basic Brawl? Yes. But it can still happen. If Nintendo doesn't want that to happen, they will act against it.

You kinda went over board/the wrong way with my example with the car deals. I meant in a magical, instantaneous way. Not in the way it would take now. Not that they can look into the future to see who will miss use their cars anyways, which is what I was implying.

And that's another thing. Let's lay this out on the line for a second. Nintendo, bottom line, end-of-story, written-in-stone... CAN'T win this war. Period. I mean this. They can't. It will not ****ing happen, I will bet every cent I have on that pony. There is no perfect lock, either in literal terms or electronic terms. In the end, hackers will ALWAYS find a way around precautionary measures in order to do what they want to do with the product they own. You simply can't stop them. Sony has been trying it for nearly a decade now, and is no closer at this point than they were when they started. And - sad but true - Sony is a lot more experienced and talented at it than Nintendo ever will be.

No, they can't stop it all, but they can reduce it. Yet again, I point to MP:H. It was Nintendo's first really popular online game. Hackers came up, they did nothing about it. And it got worse. Nintendo wants to at least slow it down this time around, so they are attempting to do so. Good for them. They are starting to learn the basics of having online games: you have to at least attempt to stop hackers, even though you won't ever fully win. If you don't even attempt, it will be that much worse. Hackers can move that much quicker when they don't have to worry about getting around a new measure.

As long as we're acknowledging that what they're doing is stupid, wrong, and unnecessary, I'll certainly concede this point.

Except it is none of those three. It's fully expected out of any company with online games, it's necessary to at least slow down hacking/get rid of the nooby hackers, it's perfectly in their right, and quite frankly thats what you must to do if you want to have online games.

 

[Ryusuta]

How do they know if you won't affect people who are playing basic brawl later down the line?

How do you know the sun won't go nova in five seconds? I'm saying the evidence doesn't indicate that such an event is likely; to the point where we should not act with the potential for such an event currently in mind.

And it is "technically" possible to play with people you don't know through FCs (friend of a friend), and they can start hacking.

You have to BOTH add each others' friend codes. You can't add a friend of a friend and the expect to just play him. They have to have added you as well.

So technically you can still be affected when playing with friends. Is it a much smaller issue then playing in Basic Brawl? Yes. But it can still happen. If Nintendo doesn't want that to happen, they will act against it.

That's like setting off a burglar alarm because someone might break into your house. That's not what it's there for.

You kinda went over board/the wrong way with my example with the car deals. I meant in a magical, instantaneous way.

I know what you meant. And you see, that's why your comparison was actually quite apt, here. You seem to be expecting instant results and a good-vs-evil showdown in a world dominated by ambiguity and deliberation. It's just not the way the world functions.

No, they can't stop it all, but they can reduce it.

Here, let me clarify this, because apparently I was being too vague.

NO, THEY CAN'T.

I could change the size and color of that text if it'll drive this point home quicker, so we don't go down this road.

I'm telling you as someone that knows this issue back and front. Nintendo can't stop hacking, and they can't even slow it down. No matter how many silly little hurdles they might try to throw up against hackers, it's always just a matter of time before they go over, slip under, or sidestep that new hurdle completely; and then Nintendo's right back where it started.

Don't believe me? Take a look at the history of Sony's war against homebrew with their systems. One gigantic monumental failure after another. And again, say what you will about Sony, they're a LOT more on the ball at dealing with this sort of thing than Nintendo is.

I have to clarify this once more. Nintendo can't win. I'm not saying "It's unlikely Nintendo will win," or "Nintendo probably won't get as good of results as they'd like." I'm saying this won't do Nintendo any good whatsoever; at all. I have to come up with more ways to stress this point and drive it home. If Nintendo goes down this path, they will fail, and end up costing themselves substantially.

 

[leafgreen386]

Firefox, safari etc = other legal internet sources.

HBC =/= fully legal to use, or whatever technicality part of it it is so that we can't talk about some aspect of it here. (Don't have it, so not 100% sure. Before you start hating on me for talking about this without having it: I plan on having it once I get an SD card reader)

Was bricking overboard? Yes, I'll admit that. But they can still ban you from Wifi use. You are using something they don't want you to use on their severs. Same reason that other games and game companies deal with hackers: they don't want them, and it's their right to act on it. Why do you think you have to update punkbuster on games like America's Army?

And MS already tried something close to that with the internet thing (got brought to court about monopoly attempts), so that wasn't the best example leaf. >_>

HBC is fully legal to use. It violates the wii network service EULA. That is all. It doesn't use copyrighted code. It doesn't do anything else that could be considered "illegal." For your own private use homebrew is 100% legal. What you use homebrew for may be illegal (ie. installing VC games via .wad files), but homebrew, itself, is fine.

Nintendo can only legally ban your use of the wii network service for using unauthorized software in a way that will impede upon their ability to deliver content to other users. So yes, if you hack in a worldwide game, they are perfectly within their right to stop you. But your private use of the system is not something they can even begin to interfere with. Whether they can legally ban you for hacking in friend matches is a bit of a gray area; you are hacking over the wii network service, which they admittedly have control over, however, it is in a private match. The Wii Network Service EULA is written in a way that makes any modifications of the wii hardware or software a breach of it. Whether that is legally sound or not, though, is highly questionable, as again... private use of the console is entirely up to the consumer's discretion. No sane individual will take nintendo to court over a wifi ban, meaning they may be able to step over their actual legal bounds with their actions.

Microsoft had a class action lawsuit filed against them by the other internet browser companies because microsoft packaged their own internet browser with their product but not any alternatives, essentially giving them an unfair advantage in the market, by shutting out competition from having a fair shot at getting consumers to use their product. At least I think that's what you're referring to. My example had them actively stopping the use of third party software (in nintendo's case, homebrew) from running on their OS, which is something they cannot legally do, and neither can nintendo. Hence, the whole point of the analogy in the first place.

 

[Sukai]

Nintendo is concerned for the integrity of online play, it's not that outrageous.
Happens all the time on the 360 and PS3, only difference is, they can actually patch games to prevent stuff like that.
Nintendo are just doing a makeshift version of the same thing.
They are worried about homebrew, because of the potential of piracy it carries.
Free VC games are gonna get Nintendo angry, and in that context, they have every right to be.

 

[Starscream]

So I need to get this straight. Can Nintendo ban you from playing online just for having the HBC on your console even if you don't play any games online with codes? Because I never play Brawl+ online because I can't stand the lag but I would like to play The Conduit online when it comes out if it's any good. I also would like the ability to play Mario Kart online even though I don't really touch that game anymore.

 

[Skillz-That-Killz]

Nintendo won't do anything seriously

If they take that dramatic action of removing the Online capabilities of the game i guarantee you that Nintendo will be bankrupt.

Most people buy games because of the online capabilities so if Nintendo actually wants money they would not worry about it

Me i wouldn't use hacks for my personal gain i would use Texture Hacking because i would play as Shadow and Zero (from Mega Man)

also Nintendo can't do much to Hackers

people should already know this Hackers is what every game will have so if Nintendo actually bother to slow it down (witch i think will never happen) like what Sir 0rion said Hackers will always find a way to get by Nintendo to do what they want and Nintendo can't stop that.

 

[cookieM0Nster]

So I need to get this straight. Can Nintendo ban you from playing online just for having the HBC on your console even if you don't play any games online with codes? Because I never play Brawl+ online because I can't stand the lag but I would like to play The Conduit online when it comes out if it's any good. I also would like the ability to play Mario Kart online even though I don't really touch that game anymore.

No, they cannot. Nintendo can look at your game and see if anything is hacked, from altered gameplay, such as playing as Warioman, Giga Bowser, etc. In short, no, don't worry about it.

 

[leafgreen386]

Nintendo won't do anything seriously

If they take that dramatic action of removing the Online capabilities of the game i guarantee you that Nintendo will be bankrupt.

Most people buy games because of the online capabilities so if Nintendo actually wants money they would not worry about it

Me i wouldn't use hacks for my personal gain i would use Texture Hacking because i would play as Shadow and Zero (from Mega Man)

also Nintendo can't do much to Hackers

people should already know this Hackers is what every game will have so if Nintendo actually bother to slow it down (witch i think will never happen) like what Sir 0rion said Hackers will always find a way to get by Nintendo to do what they want and Nintendo can't stop that.

Did you really just revive a month old thread?

 

[Darkurai]

Did you really just revive a month old thread?

With a pretty bad post at that, too.

But while the thread's back up top, I might as well ask: What exactly does Nintendo use as criteria for the temp ban?

 

[Anomilus]

^^ That's what I want to know.

Frankly I'm very glad this topic was bumped, because just this week I managed to get the HBC and Gecko on my Wii despite having a 4.0u Wii. The possibility of getting Wifi banned because of my actions is something I really wanted to know since online is my only way to enjoy multiplayer.

I didn't even get HBC for Brawl+. I got it for texture hacking. The only other thing I'm interested in regarding Brawl codes is a fully-controllable camera (only useful offline), and unrestricted replay saves.

My question is similar to Darkurai's question: How exactly does Nintendo go about finding people who may be using hacks? I can only assume at this moment they view battles in a fashion similar to an advanced Spectator Mode; they're given a list of fighters, rules, stage, etc., they watch the match play out, and they scan for any suspicious gameplay going on. Only if something unusual occurs do they obtain the Wii data of those players and check their systems?

Now considering I play a match that has no codes active that would alter or show up in an actual match, am I still liable for getting caught? Do (would) they check the post-match results screen as well? Would "suspicious play" include having the ability to save a replay regardless of time? I would assume saving replays is information that doesn't need to be online, thus Nintendo wouldn't notice.

...or perhaps they have thing set up so they really do perform some sort of quick check on all their scanned matches for any possible codes being ran?

 

[Yingyay]

If they can do all of that, why cant they
1) update their games
2) improve online play
3) make the wiimote more than a stressful gimmick

 

[Darkurai]

If they can do all of that, why cant they
1) update their games
2) improve online play
3) make the wiimote more than a stressful gimmick

Simple.

The Wii simply doesn't have the hardware for it. The Wii is technologically incapable of real updates.

 

[chaoslink20]

Simple.

The Wii simply doesn't have the hardware for it. The Wii is technologically incapable of real updates.

^ I gotta agree with that. Normal wii's have updates that are the size of around 1 mb (or a little bigger, i'm only geussing lol) so that may be a reason they are quite quick, whereas, each ps3 update is around 140mb. And those updates improve the ps3's hardware. The only update that i've seen make a change for the wii was update 4.0. The only thing i saw that was new was the SD menu. But anyway, it is sad to say, but the wii can not improve it's hardware through updates. And like someone stated before, everything has been compressed into the game (including Wi-fi) and can't be updated. Nintendo probably could update brawl, although they would have to re-edit the game or probably make the game all over again. It's like texture hacking with an .iso, where you swap files, but in a slightly different way.

 

[Snapple76]

Okay let me get something straight. If I buy a game and I use the homebrew channel to launch that game and play online since I don't want to update my wii, will I get banned? (No codes or anything, just using homebrew channel to launch the game and play online)

 

[Ryusuta]

each ps3 update is around 140mb. And those updates improve the ps3's hardware.

You can't improve hardware through a software update.

 

[metaXzero]

Okay let me get something straight. If I buy a game and I use the homebrew channel to launch that game and play online since I don't want to update my wii, will I get banned? (No codes or anything, just using homebrew channel to launch the game and play online)

If you play online with hacks active, you MAY get banned. Unlike MKWii, it's highly unlikely though.

 

[Snapple76]

I don't use hacks when I play any games online, I'm worried that Nintendo will ban me just for using the homebrew channel to launch a game because I don't want to update.

 

[chaoslink20]

You can't improve hardware through a software update.

My bad >_>...

 

[smashbro29]

I never got banned for this as long as you use common sense and don't play the with anyone modes you should be fine.

 

[Darkurai]

Okay let me get something straight. If I buy a game and I use the homebrew channel to launch that game and play online since I don't want to update my wii, will I get banned? (No codes or anything, just using homebrew channel to launch the game and play online)

We don't know, that's what we're not being told.

 

[metaXzero]

I don't use hacks when I play any games online, I'm worried that Nintendo will ban me just for using the homebrew channel to launch a game because I don't want to update.

Nintendo will NOT ban you for not updating or just having Homebrew on your Wii.

We don't know, that's what we're not being told.

Their are a few theories on it. One is Nintendo has guys playing looking for hacking online, then if they see any, they will scan suspected Wiis for Homebrew.

Of course that's for Mario Kart.

 

[n88]

Wow. I just played a match against hackers on MKWii this morning, so I'm not sure Nintendo is doing a very good job. Good thing I never go on WFC.

 

[metaXzero]

They aren't going to completely stop MKWii hacking. That's unrealistic. They've just cut out the mass of n00by ones.

 

[leafgreen386]

Why does this thread still exist?