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Hard sheilding/ WD'ing effects on teching?

Alotsa

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 9, 2006
Messages
49
Location
CA, USA
Ive recently been working on not pressing L R all the way down when L canceling so It wont effect my ability to tech if I get hit shortly after. This got me thinking.

First, how long is the period of time that you cannot tech after pressing all the way down on L R?

Does pressing all the way down to shield effect your ability to tech after?

Does wave dashing effect your ability to tech after?
 

Superspright

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 26, 2008
Messages
1,334
2/3s of a second after you have entered in a tech (hard press of L/R). 1/3 of a second after the hard press is confirmed you will tech walls--but not the ground you have to be out of hitstun and time it for that.

Also, wavedashing will effect your ability to tech after methinks, but I may be wrong...and you should L-cancel with Z because you will never screw it up and miss a tech. It's what I do and I get techs all day like a boss.
 

Ziodyne

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 10, 2013
Messages
571
Location
UCLA
hard-press wavedashes may actually help you...

the downward direction means easier crouch cancel and the hard-press means you get the tech if someone hits you during your wavedash
 

Pengie

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 8, 2007
Messages
1,125
Location
Atlanta, GA
I don't think that the fully pressing L/R to L-canceling thing is really a big deal when it comes to tech timings. If you time your L-Cancels as late as possible you shouldn't miss techs when you get hit out of your move as you L-cancel because both the window to tech and the window to L-cancel are large enough that most of the time they'll overlap.
 

BTmoney

a l l b e c o m e $
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1,806
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Columbus OH / Chicago (Plainfield) IL
Ive recently been working on not pressing L R all the way down when L canceling so It wont effect my ability to tech if I get hit shortly after. This got me thinking.

First, how long is the period of time that you cannot tech after pressing all the way down on L R?

Does pressing all the way down to shield effect your ability to tech after?

Does wave dashing effect your ability to tech after?
It's somewhere between 20-40 frames, can't remember

Don't know

Yes, the game doesn't recognize wave dashing as an input (i.e. there is no "push this button" to wave dash in the game's logic [see knee smash in manual]). The game treats things like L-canceling and wavedashing as arbitrary L/R (or Z) pressing so they do count against you when you want to tech. The game will think you just missed the window to tech if you are doing something like wavedashing or l-canceling and you press it before the tech window opens up.

That's when you miss the actual tech by trying to tech on time
 

Bones0

Smash Legend
Joined
Aug 31, 2005
Messages
11,153
Location
Jarrettsville, MD
Ive recently been working on not pressing L R all the way down when L canceling so It wont effect my ability to tech if I get hit shortly after. This got me thinking.

First, how long is the period of time that you cannot tech after pressing all the way down on L R?

Does pressing all the way down to shield effect your ability to tech after?

Does wave dashing effect your ability to tech after?
After you full-press L or R, there is a 20-frame tech window. After this window, there are 20 more frames before you can tech again. Full-pressing L or R during the 20 frames after the tech window will prevent you from teching for another 40 frames.

Yes, hard shielding and airdodging (which includes WDing) all count as tech inputs. ANY full press on a trigger is considered a tech attempt.

hard-press wavedashes may actually help you...

the downward direction means easier crouch cancel and the hard-press means you get the tech if someone hits you during your wavedash
There is no point stipulating a "hard-press wavedash" because you cannot airdodge (and consequently WD) without fully pressing the trigger. However, it should be said that you are not actually CCing when you WD because you are in airdodge landing lag (10 frames), not a crouch. If you tech after WDing, it was simply because you were ASDIing into the ground (the same way a Sheik may try to ground tech an attack after landing on stage with her up-B).

I don't think that the fully pressing L/R to L-canceling thing is really a big deal when it comes to tech timings. If you time your L-Cancels as late as possible you shouldn't miss techs when you get hit out of your move as you L-cancel because both the window to tech and the window to L-cancel are large enough that most of the time they'll overlap.
It can definitely be a big deal. It can be helpful to full press your L-cancels if you think they will do something like a Fox shine OoS to knock you down, but if they do a move that doesn't knock you into the ground immediately (most common occurrence is with throws), then you can very well be looking at an impossible to tech situation because you pressed it. If that same Fox you expected to shine OoS grabs and dthrows you instead, you probably won't have time to tech because there are less than 40 frames between your L-cancel attempt and your character hitting the ground. You may have enough time if they pummel once or if your character is really heavy, but even with enough time, it makes the window that you can input the tech much closer. So instead of just teching as soon as you see the dthrow start up, you'd have to time it right before you hit the ground to make sure all of the 40 dead input frames are finished. Fox's dthrow is just one example. Plenty of throws and attacks cause you to land on the ground within 40 frames of L-cancel attempts, especially because of how common it is to DI them downwards as you try to FF your aerial.
 

Pengie

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 8, 2007
Messages
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Atlanta, GA
It can definitely be a big deal. It can be helpful to full press your L-cancels if you think they will do something like a Fox shine OoS to knock you down, but if they do a move that doesn't knock you into the ground immediately (most common occurrence is with throws), then you can very well be looking at an impossible to tech situation because you pressed it. If that same Fox you expected to shine OoS grabs and dthrows you instead, you probably won't have time to tech because there are less than 40 frames between your L-cancel attempt and your character hitting the ground. You may have enough time if they pummel once or if your character is really heavy, but even with enough time, it makes the window that you can input the tech much closer. So instead of just teching as soon as you see the dthrow start up, you'd have to time it right before you hit the ground to make sure all of the 40 dead input frames are finished. Fox's dthrow is just one example. Plenty of throws and attacks cause you to land on the ground within 40 frames of L-cancel attempts, especially because of how common it is to DI them downwards as you try to FF your aerial
Eh, I guess that could be an issue, but I've never really noticed it when I play people. I've also seen people suggest that others essentially relearn how to l-cancel because of this issue which is something i really think is a rare occurrence. Basically I haven't encountered this situation enough times to think that it's particularly worth learning new muscle memory for L-canceling.

However if you're just learning how to l-cancel i see no reason why you wouldn't want to use the light press since there wouldn't be any old muscle memory to fight
 

rjgbadger

Banned via Warnings
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Aug 15, 2010
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its worth it 100%

don't try to shrug it off, you don't ever want to miss a tech because you don't want to learn to lcancel correctly. thats playing the arrogance/ignorance card imo
 

RockinRudy

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 18, 2012
Messages
371
Location
Canada
its worth it 100%

don't try to shrug it off, you don't ever want to miss a tech because you don't want to learn to lcancel correctly. thats playing the arrogance/ignorance card imo
^
As a Falco player if you miss a L-Cancel your asking to get punished.
If you don't space and lazor correctly. Your asking to be punished.
If you refuse to learn L-Cancel, you should consider picking up Runescape again.
Single Click tech skill would be good for you.
 

Pengie

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 8, 2007
Messages
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Atlanta, GA
^
As a Falco player if you miss a L-Cancel your asking to get punished.
If you don't space and lazor correctly. Your asking to be punished.
If you refuse to learn L-Cancel, you should consider picking up Runescape again.
Single Click tech skill would be good for you.
lmao what does that have to do with anything XD if you honestly think that I said that I said that I refuse to/am telling people to ignore to learn l-canceling you need to get your eyes checked.

its worth it 100%

don't try to shrug it off, you don't ever want to miss a tech because you don't want to learn to lcancel correctly. thats playing the arrogance/ignorance card imo
you also never want out get hit out of your approach which is something that is infinitely more valuable to learn how to do than something as trivial as learning how to l-cancel "properly". Getting hit as you l-cancel and getting ***** for it and thinking that you should have just light pressed L is akin to putting a band aid on after having an arm ripped off.
 

RockinRudy

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371
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Canada
lmao what does that have to do with anything XD if you honestly think that I said that I said that I refuse to/am telling people to ignore to learn l-canceling you need to get your eyes checked.



you also never want out get hit out of your approach which is something that is infinitely more valuable to learn how to do than something as trivial as learning how to l-cancel "properly". Getting hit as you l-cancel and getting ***** for it and thinking that you should have just light pressed L is akin to putting a band aid on after having an arm ripped off.
I am Blind my eye-sight is getting worse and I get it checked out a lot and the comment was directed to the owner of the thread.
 

Pengie

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 8, 2007
Messages
1,125
Location
Atlanta, GA
I am Blind my eye-sight is getting worse and I get it checked out a lot and the comment was directed to the owner of the thread.
ahhh my apologies then; I assumed that you were agreeing with the guy you quoted and were adding on to it. my bad.
 
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