has the tier list actually helped anyone

[n1000]

in a tangible way?

What use is there in a generalized character rankings?

Please share any instances where the MBR tier list has helped you make a decision of any sort.

 

[ph00tbag]

#foxmains stand up.

 

[N64]

It's a good reference for new players getting into the game.

Want to play the best chars? Pick one of the top 5-6.

 

[Brian]

it's not necessarily about any sort of tangible decision making
the idea is to take the knowledge we have about the game and put it into more tangible outlets
the tier list is just one piece of this that people seem to focus on for who knows what reason

 

[mallu000]

Well it answered quite a lot of questions for me in the beginning. What are important matchups to learn? What are the most common characters I'll be facing? Who should I play with if I really want to become a bracket-level player?

Also when you really think about why characters are where they are and ask the why-questions, it improves your understanding of the metagame and its history. Imagine a new player coming into the scene and comparing the older tier lists. He might ask: How come Jiggly suddenly climbed so high? Why did Marth drop from the top? And so on...

I think tier lists are very important to every FGC because they activate people to discuss character dynamics and matchups more closely and critically. When pros and wiser guys in general weigh-in on the questions such as why is Fox better than Falco or why this and that character is placed in X tier, it's really enlightening for the rest of us. Though it sometimes seems like we'd be better off without these arguments and debates, I think it's crucial to discuss these things and really exhaust all the POVs and arguments from each side to come to a some kind of conclusion. We need to know, understand and discuss our own metagame so that we all can develop as players but it's also important that we can explain these things to newer players and people outside the community.

 

[Kal]

..........

 

[Yung Mei]

tires don exits!

 

[MountainGoat]

It's a useful reference as many people have mentioned already. It's not the end all be all of character selection or gospel on which character will win but it's definitely useful. Sometimes newbies take it too seriously and assume that if you're higher on the tier list you should win 100% of the time but that doesn't mean that the tier list is useless.

 

[dRevan64]

When I first started, my decision to play Marth was because of the tier list. I'm sure a lot of new players cross-reference the tier list with the list of their favorite characters and pick whoever is best among those.

I think this is basically the whole purpose of it. It'd be a lot more useful (and maybe there's a version like this that I don't know about) that showed every character's matchups and pointed out advantages and disadvantages.

 

[Dark Hart]

The tier list isn't supposed to help anyone make any desicion... it just helps answer some general questions

 

[BL!TZ]

When I first started, it helped me pick a decent character I could invest time in.

Too bad I picked Captain Falcon...

 

[Massive]

I think this is basically the whole purpose of it. It'd be a lot more useful (and maybe there's a version like this that I don't know about) that showed every character's matchups and pointed out advantages and disadvantages.

Behold Phanna's legendary matchup chart, circa 2007.
As you can see, it's a bit dated, but it will give you an understanding of the mindset many people had 5 and a half years ago.

I thought I saw a more modern version of this chart somewhere, but it may have just been for brawl.

 

[Rocketpowerchill]

NO TIERS AND #BATTLEFIELDONLY2013

 

[dRevan64]

Behold Phanna's legendary matchup chart, circa 2007.
As you can see, it's a bit dated, but it will give you an understanding of the mindset many people had 5 and a half years ago.

I thought I saw a more modern version of this chart somewhere, but it may have just been for brawl.

I ****ing knew there was one of these out there somewhere. Thanks.

 

[Chroma]

Things have changed - Marth/Pika 9-1 is hard to believe, watching Axe.

 

[Stratocaster]

I thought I saw a more modern version of this chart somewhere, but it may have just been for brawl.

Yeah here is the updated one:

Spoiler

 

[N64]

****in stratocaster beating me to the punch. *shakes fist*

worldjem7's version: here

t3h Icy's version #1: here

t3h Icy's version #2: and here

For those interested in seeing some of the changes over time.

 

[EPsilon933]

There are only 8 characters in this game. 3 of which aren't as good as the other 5. The other 18 characters in this game are all an illusion

 

[n1000]

Well it answered quite a lot of questions for me in the beginning. What are important matchups to learn? What are the most common characters I'll be facing? Who should I play with if I really want to become a bracket-level player?

Also when you really think about why characters are where they are and ask the why-questions, it improves your understanding of the metagame and its history. Imagine a new player coming into the scene and comparing the older tier lists. He might ask: How come Jiggly suddenly climbed so high? Why did Marth drop from the top? And so on...

I think tier lists are very important to every FGC because they activate people to discuss character dynamics and matchups more closely and critically. When pros and wiser guys in general weigh-in on the questions such as why is Fox better than Falco or why this and that character is placed in X tier, it's really enlightening for the rest of us. Though it sometimes seems like we'd be better off without these arguments and debates, I think it's crucial to discuss these things and really exhaust all the POVs and arguments from each side to come to a some kind of conclusion. We need to know, understand and discuss our own metagame so that we all can develop as players but it's also important that we can explain these things to newer players and people outside the community.

While I think that your initial questions would have been better answered by tournament statistics/match up charts, I can't deny that it's stimulated a lot of discussion. Thanks for the insight.

When I first started, my decision to play Marth was because of the tier list. I'm sure a lot of new players cross-reference the tier list with the list of their favorite characters and pick whoever is best among those.

This is a decent way of picking a character though I hesitate to suggest it's better than just picking based on experience and playtime. For a player who is new to the game, but wants to be competitive quickly, the tier list is the most convenient resource. The pitfall lies in the way the list is interpreted. I believe players put too much stock in a survey with a small sample size and a vague concept.

NB: The current tier list post does not misrepresent itself. The problem lies in how easy it is to interpret the simple list next to how difficult it is to interpret such a list correctly.

It's a useful reference as many people have mentioned already. It's not the end all be all of character selection or gospel on which character will win but it's definitely useful. Sometimes newbies take it too seriously and assume that if you're higher on the tier list you should win 100% of the time but that doesn't mean that the tier list is useless.

How is it useful, in your experience?

When I first started, it helped me pick a decent character I could invest time in.

Too bad I picked Captain Falcon...

no johns...

Behold...

Thanks for sharing these. Match-up charts are very useful, especially for those who play less popular characters. I've heard it suggested that an ordering by sum across rows in those charts provides a better rankings...but that's not the topic at hand.

I'm still interested in examples of the tier list proving useful. I'd love to hear about experienced players who have been able to use it in some way (I can't imagine!)

There are several facts which we cannot ignore: the survey behind the tier list has a very small sample size and a highly biased selection process. While there is a legitimate rationale behind both of these things, they make it difficult to employ the data for more than a cursory description of the state of the game according to very few. It's nice to have a quick reference, I guess, but I still can't imagine using the list for anything.

 

[Jonas]

It's a good reference for new players getting into the game.

Want to play the best chars? Pick one of the top 5-6.

"Except the guy at the #1 spot."

Like, you would never tell a newcomer to play Fox.

 

[Kal]

..........

 

[MountainGoat]

The tier list is useful as a reference. Especially to newer players. I don't know what OP is trying to argue. It's a good rough estimate for new players, springboard for discussion, resource for viewers so they can learn what characters are good and easier to digest than a huge matchup chart that is even more difficult to find consensus on than a tier list.

It's obviously not written in stone or anything but what exactly is OP arguing for? Getting rid of it? Only using a hard to read matchup chart?

 

[dRevan64]

****in stratocaster beating me to the punch. *shakes fist*

worldjem7's version: here

t3h Icy's version #1: here

t3h Icy's version #2: and here

For those interested in seeing some of the changes over time.

Again, a little bit dated, but still very useful. Especially the sorting by stages, I don't think I'd seen that before.
I feel like someone should chart legal counterpicks too, but that might be a bit much.

 

[Jim Morrison]

the tier list is all i care about

if someone tires to tell me a a characters that is low is good, i just link them to the list and prove them wrong LOL!

 

[Bing]

the tier list is all i care about

if someone tires to tell me a a characters that is low is good, i just link them to the list and prove them wrong LOL!

Well that doesnt exactly educate them... but at least you won the argument?

I used the tier list to determine whether or not my main at the time(Marth) was viable, then I said **** the list and did what I wanted... and somehow landed on Fox.

 

[BL!TZ]

no johns...

Haha, agreed.

Isai's and Darkrain's Falcon sealed the deal for me back then.

 

[n1000]

So the tier list is only useful for baddies/arguments with baddies?

 

[N64]

I'm not sure what else you're expecting it to do.

 

[n1000]

No expectations. I'm just trying to clear this up for my own understanding.

 

[Kal]

..........

 

[Heero Yuy]

Tiers seem important to me in Melee, but I could care less about them in Brawl. Overall, I don't think tiers bother me that much, seeing as though I can easily take Meta Knights with Link. The list fluctuates so much that I kind of stopped caring after a while. Plus, I find it enjoyable to see Yoshis pwn Falcos in Melee, despite the 10-90 disadvantage.

 

[Kal]

..........

 

[Bing]

Just Wild Beat! Communication!
There is nothing to fear

Because no one is going to take away our shared feelings

God I love Gundam Wing. Can't wait to get my tag changed -_-

 

[Deleted member]

Please share any instances where the MBR tier list has helped you make a decision of any sort.

The point of a tier list is to show the player base a position of relative goodness. This gives an otherwise uninformed player a means to know how to practice against an otherwise blind metagame.

If you're really into the game, it's only another medium for theory, which is still useful but not necessarily to the same degree.

 

[Heero Yuy]

heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeerrrrrrrrrrroooooooooooooooo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqBa6zWf9bQ

lol you and Bing made my night. :D

 

[Bing]

lmfao you're welcome.