Jigglymaster
Smash Hero
Right, so this topic has probably been discussed alot, but from what I've heard, it's a major topic in the Mii Discord chat. I don't ever plan on going to discord, and since nobody wants to come to Skype where I am, I'll just discuss this here.
Helicopter Kick, or Piston Punch? That is a question. A very good question. Because both moves are great, and If I could, I'd use them both. But unfortunately we are being given a decision on which one to use, and it could very well impact Brawler's viability in the long run. So lets compare and contrast these two, to see which one might be better against the future of the metagame.
First lets get the frame data out of the way
Piston Punch comes out Frame 4
Helicopter Kick comes out Frame 8
So PP comes out twice as fast, this is an excellent OOS option. Not only that, but along with it's upwards angle, it makes it easier to catch opponents out of their air dodge. So very similar to Sheik that at higher percentages where d-throw up B is no longer a true combo, it becomes 50/50. On the other hand, Helicopter Kick has a much harder time catching air dodges. I've read airdodges plenty of times, but I can never seem to connect the move, most likely do to it's diagonal angle. Piston Punch is simply just better at catching airdoges.
When it comes to safety, Helicopter Kick is able to do weaving, whereas Piston Punch has to come directly back down. Helicopter Kick wins when it comes to evasiveness, but I feel like half of the time I get away with using the move because my opponent underestimates it's evasiveness. As the metagame progresses, people will get better at punishing a whiffed Helicopter Kick.
Overall, I think Piston Punch wins this category.
BKB/KBG
Piston Punch: 74/180
Helicopter Kick: 60/150(Air) 155(Ground)
Piston Punch is again, stronger in every way. It comes out faster, and it kills earlier. This makes Brawler have an easier time killing at higher percentages, compared to Helicopter Kick. It helps considering some stages make him kill sooner, but we'll get into that soon.
Piston Punch wins this category.
So, why do we use Helicopter Kick?
Mostly, it's because it can do one thing on almost every stage that Piston Punch cannot. Kill early at the ledge, MUCH earlier. It may be weaker, but the one thing I can do is move pretty far horizontally, which brings the opponent very close to the blastzones to KO them despite their low percentage. This is pretty much universal for every stage, except for Smashville which it's even better because of the platform assist sometimes.
This brings me to the topic of stages. Helicopter Kick is more or less even on most of them, and Piston Punch can vary depending on the platforms and the ceiling height.
With the introduction to Dreamland 64, Piston Punch now has both that stage alongside Town and City as early KO stages. Might not have the one inch punch anymore, but it still incredibly powerful. Stages where Piston Punch can fall short are stages like FD and Duck Hunt.
Now onto the subject of recovery.
A main weakness of Brawler is that he cannot recovery vertically for ****, at least with Helicopter Kick. Piston Punch gives us somewhat of a better recovery in general. Sure we don't have all the best horizontal in the world anymore, but at least it's balanced. However, if you get stuffed out of your Feint Jump while having Piston Punch, you might also be done for.
Finally, vs characters.
Overall, I think Helicopter Kick destroys characters far better than Piston Punch does. Not many can stop Brawler from getting them to the ledge, I believe. But the few that can stop Brawler, flat out destroy him. Piston Punch doesn't really destroy anyone, except maybe for Luigi who has such poor aerial mobility that he can't do anything to dodge it. Piston Punch also has a weakness against fastfallers who won't die so easily vertically.
So, in the long run. Piston Punch is overall worse than Helicopter Kick, despite it's better frame-data and kill potential, all because of that early KO combo that Helicopter Kick has. HOWEVER, Helicopter Kick has some terribly bad matchups that I believe, that make Brawler not solo-viable. If you want to win a national with a character like that, you're gonna need a secondary. Helicopter Kick is more or less a more extreme version of Piston Punch. It can be better in some case scenarios, but at the same time it has weaknesses that can be exploited, that Piston Punch doesn't really have.
That's my dilemma here, I love both moves, I've used both in tournament. Granted, I haven't really used Piston Punch since the 3ds days, but yeah. Still a tough decision and it would be just best if we could use them depending on the situation, but we can't.
Finally, I'd just like to say I'd use different moves depending on which Up special we go with. Because if we go with Helicopter Kick, we want to focus on KO potential over racking up percent. That means I'd prefer Ultimate Uppercut over Shotput.
On the other hand, if we go with Piston Punch, we want our opponents to be at a higher percentage like normal, so Shotput would be the way to go, along with that we'd have a move that gives us a better time at edgegaurding along with the fact that we can play the neutral better against characters like Luigi or Cloud.
So, if we go with Helicopter Kick, we should do 2122.
If we go with Piston Punch, we should do 1132.
So yeah. I'm conflicted. I don't know which one to choose. It's like picking a favorite child. I want you Mii Brawlers to read this, and help me decide based on the information that I've given you. I really do want to try a tournament with Piston Punch, just to see how it goes. Unfortunately I have to find a tournament that would let me do that to begin with.
Let me know what you all think, and thanks for reading.
Helicopter Kick, or Piston Punch? That is a question. A very good question. Because both moves are great, and If I could, I'd use them both. But unfortunately we are being given a decision on which one to use, and it could very well impact Brawler's viability in the long run. So lets compare and contrast these two, to see which one might be better against the future of the metagame.
First lets get the frame data out of the way
Piston Punch comes out Frame 4
Helicopter Kick comes out Frame 8
So PP comes out twice as fast, this is an excellent OOS option. Not only that, but along with it's upwards angle, it makes it easier to catch opponents out of their air dodge. So very similar to Sheik that at higher percentages where d-throw up B is no longer a true combo, it becomes 50/50. On the other hand, Helicopter Kick has a much harder time catching air dodges. I've read airdodges plenty of times, but I can never seem to connect the move, most likely do to it's diagonal angle. Piston Punch is simply just better at catching airdoges.
When it comes to safety, Helicopter Kick is able to do weaving, whereas Piston Punch has to come directly back down. Helicopter Kick wins when it comes to evasiveness, but I feel like half of the time I get away with using the move because my opponent underestimates it's evasiveness. As the metagame progresses, people will get better at punishing a whiffed Helicopter Kick.
Overall, I think Piston Punch wins this category.
BKB/KBG
Piston Punch: 74/180
Helicopter Kick: 60/150(Air) 155(Ground)
Piston Punch is again, stronger in every way. It comes out faster, and it kills earlier. This makes Brawler have an easier time killing at higher percentages, compared to Helicopter Kick. It helps considering some stages make him kill sooner, but we'll get into that soon.
Piston Punch wins this category.
So, why do we use Helicopter Kick?
Mostly, it's because it can do one thing on almost every stage that Piston Punch cannot. Kill early at the ledge, MUCH earlier. It may be weaker, but the one thing I can do is move pretty far horizontally, which brings the opponent very close to the blastzones to KO them despite their low percentage. This is pretty much universal for every stage, except for Smashville which it's even better because of the platform assist sometimes.
This brings me to the topic of stages. Helicopter Kick is more or less even on most of them, and Piston Punch can vary depending on the platforms and the ceiling height.
With the introduction to Dreamland 64, Piston Punch now has both that stage alongside Town and City as early KO stages. Might not have the one inch punch anymore, but it still incredibly powerful. Stages where Piston Punch can fall short are stages like FD and Duck Hunt.
Now onto the subject of recovery.
A main weakness of Brawler is that he cannot recovery vertically for ****, at least with Helicopter Kick. Piston Punch gives us somewhat of a better recovery in general. Sure we don't have all the best horizontal in the world anymore, but at least it's balanced. However, if you get stuffed out of your Feint Jump while having Piston Punch, you might also be done for.
Finally, vs characters.
Overall, I think Helicopter Kick destroys characters far better than Piston Punch does. Not many can stop Brawler from getting them to the ledge, I believe. But the few that can stop Brawler, flat out destroy him. Piston Punch doesn't really destroy anyone, except maybe for Luigi who has such poor aerial mobility that he can't do anything to dodge it. Piston Punch also has a weakness against fastfallers who won't die so easily vertically.
So, in the long run. Piston Punch is overall worse than Helicopter Kick, despite it's better frame-data and kill potential, all because of that early KO combo that Helicopter Kick has. HOWEVER, Helicopter Kick has some terribly bad matchups that I believe, that make Brawler not solo-viable. If you want to win a national with a character like that, you're gonna need a secondary. Helicopter Kick is more or less a more extreme version of Piston Punch. It can be better in some case scenarios, but at the same time it has weaknesses that can be exploited, that Piston Punch doesn't really have.
That's my dilemma here, I love both moves, I've used both in tournament. Granted, I haven't really used Piston Punch since the 3ds days, but yeah. Still a tough decision and it would be just best if we could use them depending on the situation, but we can't.
Finally, I'd just like to say I'd use different moves depending on which Up special we go with. Because if we go with Helicopter Kick, we want to focus on KO potential over racking up percent. That means I'd prefer Ultimate Uppercut over Shotput.
On the other hand, if we go with Piston Punch, we want our opponents to be at a higher percentage like normal, so Shotput would be the way to go, along with that we'd have a move that gives us a better time at edgegaurding along with the fact that we can play the neutral better against characters like Luigi or Cloud.
So, if we go with Helicopter Kick, we should do 2122.
If we go with Piston Punch, we should do 1132.
So yeah. I'm conflicted. I don't know which one to choose. It's like picking a favorite child. I want you Mii Brawlers to read this, and help me decide based on the information that I've given you. I really do want to try a tournament with Piston Punch, just to see how it goes. Unfortunately I have to find a tournament that would let me do that to begin with.
Let me know what you all think, and thanks for reading.