Help vs. Marth

[duals]

I've played against my friends really good marth and would like some help against a really good marth.

Some things i need to work on:
- Recovery
-Approaching
- Edge guarding

Any tricks or tips that would prove useful against a marth, please say so I can improve my game against one.

Thnks...

 

[Megachuk]

recovering advice giving is tricky as it really requires experience. Just watch out for tipper range, wavelanded of the edge bairs, and don't EVER miss your sweetspot.

as far as approaching goes, alot of it depends on your style of play. I myself shoot a retarted amount of missiles, on average I'd say I shoot 70 missiles a match. If it's on PK stadium expect 100+. I'm not exaggerating... Just ask my crewmates. I guess I just avoid approaching as much as possible, and I force the marth to approach me.

Ledgeguarding is kinda easy, just shoot homing missiles to mess up their recovery. Then run off nair, ledgehog, or fake a ledge hog and just fsmash when they get on the stage.

 

[Corigames]

*cough cough* stickies *cough cough*

For quick advice though, just avoid and punish and spam lots of missiles. If he misses one, that's your windo. If he misses any attacks, dodge and punish.

Don't get hit while recovering. Simple... he has a sword, he's limited.

Edgehog him ifhe's coming in low and tilt him if he's coming in high.

 

[AIDS]

Duals, you should stop making all these threads and addd to the already existing topics. Please read the stickied threads (they are at the top of the samus page)

 

[duals]

I realized that after i made this...

but theres some things unexplained that i've been having trouble with against Marths... but sorry for making an all ready made topic...

 

[AIDS]

I realized that after i made this...

but theres some things unexplained that i've been having trouble with against Marths... but sorry for making an all ready made topic...

Yeah it is okay. But if we are lacking something you need to know about, then ask on my thread. My thread was made for a lot of guidance to prevent making a lot of threads. For short easy questions just add to a thread. Thanks. =)

 

[Corigames]

I'm 2 sided about threads in already-made topics. 1, it's taking up space that's covered in stickes which are there for the reason of explaining the things the person is trying to talk about. However, and this is part two, it brings new threads to this board which seem to be lacking. This means we are getting fresh new topics and people... but that's what stickies are for... but new people... stickies... community... pre-made discussions.... growth... *head splode*

 

[AIDS]

Yes, but as long as the people on the threads with the exsisting threads are active players, who are up to date in knowledge of the game and are willing to update and add to the topic they are covering, then it should make sence to add to that discussion. But in a case where the person who made the thread is in active, and the area to be discussed is something with a fair amount of discussion where it will be an active discussion, then I agree. But not something like, I need help vs marth, we help, ok thanks, thread dies." That is pointless and I don't agree with.

The stickied threads have topics like "always bring your videos here, and they will be critiqued" or "Samus information + Char match ups" so those will always have people asking more, and they will always be an active situation. Same Idea as one person "critique my samus" or "rate this one video" those things I feel should not take up a thread, and it is the same as "I need help vs so and so right now" etc.

Does that make more sence?

 

[Tamoo]

lol at coreygames, sooo true

 

[jiggz kirbz]

There is no tips just beat him.

 

[duals]

There is no tips just beat him.

thanks.... No wonder i never thought of that.... -_-

 

[Watty]

seeing as I dont know your style nor do I want to watch vids of you the way I do this and btw its my 2nd favorite matchup is croutch cancel in the beginning into down smashes when marth fairs when he is gonna neutral air u shield up b the ****er.

depending what stage ur on u want to osacr myer weiner or if u cannot standing missiles when u get a chance but if the marth is good they will forward air right through them. so if the marth beging to approach u should stop shooting, because depending on how many your shooting and if ur off the ground or not u may be vulnerable. so shoot when you can wd in an out using ur forward tilt. dont forward smash unless your pretty sure its gonna hit and.

u cant really jab cancel cause marths grabs so big but ya you jsut have to play careful and smart using the up b missiles and just poke at em till u get em off the stage.

 

[ihavespaceblondes]

seeing as I dont know your style nor do I want to watch vids of you the way I do this and btw its my 2nd favorite matchup is croutch cancel in the beginning into down smashes when marth fairs when he is gonna neutral air u shield up b the ****er.

depending what stage ur on u want to osacr myer weiner or if u cannot standing missiles when u get a chance but if the marth is good they will forward air right through them. so if the marth beging to approach u should stop shooting, because depending on how many your shooting and if ur off the ground or not u may be vulnerable. so shoot when you can wd in an out using ur forward tilt. dont forward smash unless your pretty sure its gonna hit and.

u cant really jab cancel cause marths grabs so big but ya you jsut have to play careful and smart using the up b missiles and just poke at em till u get em off the stage.

I understood every word of this, and that terrifies me.

Also, grabbing is amazing vs Marth. If you see that he is definitely going to land with an aerial, throw out that ****ing grapple and dthrow. If he DIs away -> dash attack, if he DIs towards or up, then fsmash, nair, and utilt can all work depending on the %. If he techs on a platform after the dthrow, waveland onto it and grab him again.

 

[duals]

I understood every word of this, and that terrifies me.

Also, grabbing is amazing vs Marth. .

ehhh..... i tend to stay away from the throw with marth, it sets samus up for a combo if they dodge it, especially if the extenderrrrrr is equipped....

 

[ihavespaceblondes]

ehhh..... i tend to stay away from the throw with marth, it sets samus up for a combo if they dodge it, especially if the extenderrrrrr is equipped....

Why would the extender make a difference? It lags the exact same time as the regular grapple.

 

[duals]

Why would the extender make a difference? It lags the exact same time as the regular grapple.

this is true.... don't know why I said that.....

 

[Watty]

I understood every word of this, and that terrifies me.

Also, grabbing is amazing vs Marth. If you see that he is definitely going to land with an aerial, throw out that ****ing grapple and dthrow. If he DIs away -> dash attack, if he DIs towards or up, then fsmash, nair, and utilt can all work depending on the %. If he techs on a platform after the dthrow, waveland onto it and grab him again.

space if marth DI's up or toward i tend to up air forward air chain that if thers a platform i follow somtimes ending with an up b. But that depends on the % if hes low than I do that to rack up percent not to mention they are gonna throw out a forward air to get u off them so as long as u anticipate the move you can counter it. But if Marth is at a high percent than I neutral air.

I dont actually know the percent diffrence between what you suggested to what I did if there is any I would assume its not that much but the up air forward air puts them above you and makes them have to get down and get space which si why I do it it puts them on the defensive

 

[Cra$hman]

space if marth DI's up or toward i tend to up air forward air chain that if thers a platform i follow somtimes ending with an up b. But that depends on the % if hes low than I do that to rack up percent not to mention they are gonna throw out a forward air to get u off them so as long as u anticipate the move you can counter it. But if Marth is at a high percent than I neutral air.

I dont actually know the percent diffrence between what you suggested to what I did if there is any I would assume its not that much but the up air forward air puts them above you and makes them have to get down and get space which si why I do it it puts them on the defensive

hi watty

 

[Lanowen]

hi watty

Hi Crashmans,

You don't remember me but I said bye to you once and you looked at me with such a cold stare

I feel I should say something else so, downangle f-tilt marths recovery then edge-hog. and don't die. If you don't die you can't lose.

 

[Cra$hman]

Hi Crashmans,

You don't remember me but I said bye to you once and you looked at me with such a cold stare

I feel I should say something else so, downangle f-tilt marths recovery then edge-hog. and don't die. If you don't die you can't lose.

I remember! we were in second round pools together.

 

[Lanowen]

Yay, the good old days were fun.

 

[ThePrime]

I'm realizing that you're always in a better position if you keep the fight on the ground. Once you two are in the air... marth's fairs just come out like crazy. That being said, make an effort to grab more. I know it's a little risky but dthrow on marth guarantees a hit or two after the throw.

I like to approach with ftilt, you just have to mix it with some well spaced dash dances. Also, im finding that wavedashing back to dtilt is good too if you know hes going to approach with his sh double fair.

 

[Tyser]

I attempt to grab alot against Marth, it ends with hurt almost every time.

 

[Watty]

wait to see how the marth jumps and when before u start grabbing, it isnt bad as long as u arent missing terribly, small stages are good with grabs cause they have less room to run. just space really far away with the forward tilt and JC grab or dash grab long as they think ur gonna keep the shield pressure up they shouldnt try to jump out of it

 

[fed]

if your opponent is a defensive marth i think you have to use super missile spam against him and too much dodge+dsmash. Wow!! remember nair too... it works dude
i dont like that way but a defensive marth is very hard to defeat

 

[-Crews-]

uncharged shots help with spacing because of their speed. shoot off a missle or two ANYTIME u get a free chance. if used properly, u can control the pace of the game. umm unless your pretty good at grab timing i would tend to stay away from it. he accels in the air so he wont be within grab range anyway. he can really punish a failed grab attempt as u previously stated. also, be aware, marth is low when he runs so he can often get under the zair if your not sergical with the thing. as im sure u know, his very vertical recovery makes it hard to spike him so dont try to be fancy with your ko's. also, because of their speed, your ftilt and netural a combo will be a good friend in this match up along with bombs (good combo breakers/preventers). and o ya, dont be surprised when u get a good fair ****** cause its gonna happen lol

 

[Corigames]

Punish.

Dodge punish.

 

[-Crews-]

uncharged shots help with spacing because of their speed. shoot off a missle or two ANYTIME u get a free chance. if used properly, u can control the pace of the game. umm unless your pretty good at grab timing i would tend to stay away from it. he accels in the air so he wont be within grab range anyway. he can really punish a failed grab attempt as u previously stated. also, be aware, marth is low when he runs so he can often get under the zair if your not sergical with the thing. as im sure u know, his very vertical recovery makes it hard to spike him so dont try to be fancy with your ko's. also, because of their speed, your ftilt and netural a combo will be a good friend in this match up along with bombs (good combo breakers/preventers). and o ya, dont be surprised when u get a good fair ****** cause its gonna happen lol

haha wow. nevermind anything i just said. completly different game. i feel reeeeal stupid

 

[Corigames]

The EDIT button would be the emergency tool required for that situation then.

Also, how did you get to this board by accident then?

 

[unknown522]

this matcup is impossible.

learn sheik

 

[-taco]

haha wow. nevermind anything i just said. completly different game. i feel reeeeal stupid

wow get *****
.
.
.
Well I've noticed that most Marths either excel in their air game or their ground game...
Usually never both so first you have to figure out what kind of marth you are facing.
I tend to do better against Marths that stay on the ground...much easier to punish.

 

[duals]

I tend to do better against Marths that stay on the ground...much easier to punish.

this is true, but i play a marth that excels in both ground and air.... but more in the air than anything.....

 

[-Crews-]

Also, how did you get to this board by accident then?

well, my friend was looking around on smashboards and asked me to see if i could give someone some help vs marth (forgetting to tell me he was on the melee boards). not knowing i was talking about an entire different game, i foolishly proceeded to give him useless advice. thats how all this happened

 

[zL.tyranT]

- Recovery
[don't use your jump initially, instead bomb jump close to stage (depending on height) if you arrive higher than tipper range you should be fine. At or below tipper range sweetspot grapple. If the marth edgehogs wall jump and then use air dodge or second jump if you still have it. I've found that even in tourney simply bomb jumping while close to the stage is useful. The marth will often get anxious and make a move.]

-Approaching
+Wave shield alot.
+Approaching with jab and spacing f-tilts is relatively safe.
+At mid percentages marth will fall from the f-tilt and is an easy follow up
+Dsmash out of shield can become problematic if not spaced correctly.
+Even at the right distance it becomes very easy for marth to punish the dsmash and ruin your day.
+Shooting a missle and following up with a grab or bombs on the ground is effective if they shield.
+Shoot a missle and nair if the marth jumps and fairs your missles alot.
+Use bombs if they shield or sidestep a lot.
+Bacon.


- Edge guarding
+Edgehog -> nair
+Run off edge -> nair
+Homing missle to force them down -> nair
+Edgehog, and simply get up into dsmash if the reach stage.
+Pork Fat.

 

[rhan]

this matcup is impossible.

learn sheik

That is all there is to it.

Samus can't do much of anything against a Marth.

 

[duals]

That is all there is to it.

Samus can't do much of anything against a Marth.

Not according to Watty, I believe...... He says that the ones that samus are not good against, he prefers to play against.... If he could beat marths easily, so can I.....

 

[Tyser]

Watty beats Marths easily? What Marth players has he been playing against?

 

[rhan]

Well it's going to be difficult to actually beat a good Marth. Last time I played a good Marth I got full stocked and resently in a crew battle I only took off 2 stocks of a decent Marth. So it's just how much skill you have and/or the Marth has. Also stage might help a bit. My Samus tends to do well against Marth's at Dreamland. SInce he can't get tips there and Samus' recovery is even more use there also.

 

[-taco]

-Approaching
+Wave shield alot.
+Approaching with jab and spacing f-tilts is relatively safe.
+At mid percentages marth will fall from the f-tilt and is an easy follow up
+Dsmash out of shield can become problematic if not spaced correctly.
+Even at the right distance it becomes very easy for marth to punish the dsmash and ruin your day.
+Shooting a missle and following up with a grab or bombs on the ground is effective if they shield.
+Shoot a missle and nair if the marth jumps and fairs your missles alot.
+Use bombs if they shield or sidestep a lot.
+Bacon.


- Edge guarding
+Edgehog -> nair
+Run off edge -> nair
+Homing missle to force them down -> nair
+Edgehog, and simply get up into dsmash if the reach stage.
+Pork Fat.

Can you elaborate?

 

[rhan]

Apparently Marth is a Muslim.

Load your guns with pig feet!