Q&A Hint Block: Yoshi Question and Answer Thread

[CelestialMarauder~]

Our Favorite green dinosaur dragon thing is back again and better than ever in Smash 4. He had a lot of big changes to what made his game play what it was in past iterations of Super Smash Bros. so there would understandably be a lot of questions. Stuff like whats changed about him? Does this character still suck? Why can't I dodge eggs? Well all you need to do is ask and one of our trained Yoshi professionals will swerve right in to answer the burning questions that keep you up all night.

Rules

1. Don't make new threads to ask a question
2. Check the (To be made) FAQ before asking
3. No troll questions

Ask away hatchlings!

Helpful Links

• General Yoshi Guides Page: http://smashboards.com/guides/categories/yoshi.169/
  • Recommended: http://smashboards.com/guides/yoshis-story-survival-guide.27/
  • Guide to Yoshi's Customs: http://smashboards.com/guides/select-yoshi.42/

 

[CelestialMarauder~]

(Reserved for FAQ)

 

[Masonomace]

Hihi Celestial, I don't own the game & I barely tested anything with Yoshi for the first 5 minutes of only playing that duration with him because I'm very into Shulk now. So my question:

• Does Yoshi retain the walk-off DoubleJump ledge-snap he had in Brawl?

 

[CelestialMarauder~]

Nope, it is completely gone since our doublejump doesn't linger anymore. Gotta learn how to speed hug from now on lol

 

[Masonomace]

Thanks for Answering~ More questions:

• How effective is Yoshi's Roll Canceled Grab?
• Is Yoshi's unique Egg shield still as strong if not stronger than his past games including 64?

 

[Slice~]

I didn't look into the Roll Canceled Grab's yet, but i can tell You that Yoshi's shield is tremendous.
I've survived several charged neutral B's from both Marth and Lucina.

Also i got the chance to shield some K.O.'s from little Mac, which just make You slide over the whole stage without breaking the shield.

Not sure if it is stronger/weaker than before, but it's still ridiculously strong and with the new utility to jump out of it, probably the best shield in the game, since you can't poke through it.

 

[CelestialMarauder~]

Put it like this, our shield is now identical to everyone else's shields except ours can't be poked (and feels a bit more durable than some of them). Being able to jump out of it made it significantly better than brawl, but I can't say for sure if that is better than what it could do in melee and 64.

As for roll canceled grabs, I have literally not been able to get a single one with Yoshi. I tried it with lucario, lucina, little mac, megaman...the fact that i was actually getting it with these guys means Yoshi might not have it. Granted i learned how to do it just to try answering this question, but still.

 

[Terotrous]

Is it known whether or not Yoshi shield drops in the same number of frames as everyone else? His shield drop is still pretty fast, but since it has a unique animation I wouldn't be surprised if it was a frame slower or something.

 

[Sinister Slush]

The only thing that concerns me still is if our feet poke out under us still like in brawl. If not then our shield truly cannot be poked from anywhere.

 

[Masonomace]

This makes me even more interested in Yoshi's Shield proerties due to jumping OoS now. I'm curious about Yoshi's egg shield when he powershields o_O

 

[Terotrous]

This makes me even more interested in Yoshi's Shield proerties due to jumping OoS now. I'm curious about Yoshi's egg shield when he powershields o_O

Seems to work the same as anyone else as far as I can tell. You take significantly less shield stun and your shield takes no damage.

 

[Shiri]

I wish I had a way to tear Brawl apart and get the numbers, but my info is mostly based off of Melee, so assuming this didn't change in the transition to Brawl, then these should still be good.

Is it known whether or not Yoshi shield drops in the same number of frames as everyone else? His shield drop is still pretty fast, but since it has a unique animation I wouldn't be surprised if it was a frame slower or something.

Yoshi's shield drop is the same duration as everyone else's in Melee, so again...assuming that it didn't change in Brawl, then it should still be the same. You can still cancel shield dropping into spotdodge, too.

Put it like this, our shield is now identical to everyone else's shields except ours can't be poked (and feels a bit more durable than some of them). Being able to jump out of it made it significantly better than brawl, but I can't say for sure if that is better than what it could do in melee and 64.

Yoshi's shield was 1 frame more durable than everyone else's in Melee, but that was with hard shielding. Lightshielding extended that slightly, although I can't remember by how much. This doesn't seem very big, but you could somehow always tell when Yoshi's shield survived something that normal shields wouldn't have been able to (shield poking notwithstanding). There is a good chance this number was changed for Brawl with lightshielding having been removed, but Yoshi's shield still feels to last longer than normal shields in this new game.

 

[Scatz]

Shield drop did change when going from Melee to Brawl. He went to like 14 frames of shield drop animation in Brawl.

 

[Shiri]

Say whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat

Ugh I'm going to have to find someone who can get me some Brawl numbers

This game is making me wish I cared more about Brawl ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff

 

[Scatz]

Yeah, it was a really weird change. They increased the frames in which you could drop only if you never did a spotdodge. Spotdodging would cancel the shield drop at any point you initiated it.

 

[Sinister Slush]

I still have the frame data for Brawl Yoshi watched thankfully.
http://smashboards.com/threads/yoshis-entire-frame-data.249046/

 

[Terotrous]

Also, shield drops are faster across the board in Smash 4. Run up shield drop is comparably fast to a pivot cancel now, with the added bonus of having a few frames of invincibility. Shield drop Down B is a surprisingly legitimate OOS option, too.

 

[Shiri]

Hmmm, you know, I never did ask Yika where he got his information from. :|

 

[Lukingordex]

I wonder if anyone actually liked any of Yoshi's custom moves. I fond them all useless except for maybe neutral b 2 which is inferior to the default one.

 

[Shiri]

I haven't played around with them, honestly. I should experiment when I have some time. I've heard some characters have some crazy custom moves.

 

[Scatz]

Honestly, type 3 for all his special moves look like they have some use, but they're more along the lines of extremities. All of type 2 looked useless to me.

 

[Lukingordex]

I haven't played around with them, honestly. I should experiment when I have some time. I've heard some characters have some crazy custom moves.

Villagers' neutral B 2 has a hitbox were a flower is placed in the head of the opponent in exchange of a little less range to capture projectiles (it's not much of a difference), it's hilarious

 

[CelestialMarauder~]

eh, in general i think yoshi is better with his defaults, but you never know, we might be able to find some niche uses for some of them in certain matchups.

 

[Airborne]

The only two that I've considered using are the custom egg roll that bounces in an arc-like motion when it hits the ground and the weaker ground pound that creates larger stars.

The custom egg roll is, in my opinion, the strongest of the 3 egg rolls because it's the only one that can be used from the air in an efficient manner (since the original one has a horrible bounce that significantly decreases the initial acceleration and the other moves at a slower velocity than Yoga freakin' Catastrophe); it becomes a far more reasonable kill move; the release of the egg roll is easy to space so that you end up barely offstage or off of a platform for some egg toss, b-reverse/wave bounce/"*****, I'm doglike" egg lay, ground pound onto ledge, or double jump action; the change in height when jumping in the egg roll seems significant enough to increase the versatility of punishment in certain situations; and it's more mobility, doge.

The custom ground pound is something I'm only experimenting with on sloped stages, FOR OBVIOUS REASONS. The stars reach almost all of the way to center of the stage when using the slopes on the ledge, not to mention the the platform is still useful for abusing the stars. It still retains the same shield damage, but it forfeits a kill option, so it's still questionable overall in my book.

 

[CelestialMarauder~]

I think if we end up with a matchup where egg are functionally useless or we get gimped easy, the high jump up b might be worth a look. Our recovery took a bigger hit than you'd think from brawl

 

[Airborne]

I think if we end up with a matchup where egg are functionally useless or we get gimped easy, the high jump up b might be worth a look. Our recovery took a bigger hit than you'd think from brawl

I disagree, due to the fact it's virtually impossible for eggs to become useless in any specific matchup. Even in matchups like Rosalina, Villager, or Wario, where the opponent can utilize projectiles for their own advantage (DownB, Pocket, and Bite, respectively), egg toss still poses as one of the largest threats. The space control is just too much to forfeit.

 

[Nikes]

I really like the high jump custom, but as Airborne said eggs are still useful even if the enemy can negate them completely. Reason I say this is because if we're approaching with eggs and momentum, by the time they've used the move to negate the egg we're already able to punish however we like.

 

[CelestialMarauder~]

I mean i wasn't saying it would happen, its just a new game the possibility is there (like if rosalina trys to deflect an egg we can punish her for it with the right spacing lol I don't actually think it's going to happen). I still stand by it tho, if we had a brawl MK tier matchup where getting gimped at 2% was a way of life, high jump is probably worth the look for that matchup.

 

[Terotrous]

I think if we end up with a matchup where egg are functionally useless or we get gimped easy, the high jump up b might be worth a look. Our recovery took a bigger hit than you'd think from brawl

I think the general system changes more than made up for it, though. Air dodge is safer than in Brawl, making it a stronger option for getting back to the stage, and the inability to ledge hog helps quite a bit too. Overall, I find Yoshi tends not to get gimped very much.

 

[Nikes]

On the topic of getting gimped...in a team battle online yesterday iirc I got Falco jabbed out of my double jump at 60% or so when jumping from the ledge...:/ Just something to be aware of.

 

[Sinister Slush]

Falco jab 1 still being fast with dumb priority.
Nothing new.

 

[Amanti]

I'm posting this tentatively and without getting my hopes up. I do this for two reasons: firstly, because for all I know, my subject could be common knowledge that's been around since the dawn of Smash and I've just passed over it like a scrub; secondly, because my subject seems so simple, I'm finding it really hard to believe that I'm the first one to find it, so I'll give due credit to the true discoverer (Discoveree?) should they reveal theirself.
Until then, I'm just calling this "Egg Dashing." I'll post a video when I can, but doing that from my phone is an ordeal I just don't want to endeavor right now.
This is a super easy technique to execute: all you need to do is dash, then short-hop and quickly follow it with an Egg Toss. To do this properly, I simply use the "Y" button for the short-hop ("X" is my normal jump button) and then roll my thumb to "B." When done right, Yoshi should toss an egg while sliding slightly forward.
While this isn't super impressive, I was really excited to share what I may have discovered. Yoshi seems to be one of the few characters with more of a selection of movement options. I'm really just hoping this my open some doors to other possibilities, so keep developing this character into all he can be! I'm looking forward to growth of the metagame as we continue down the road.

Y'ALL HAVE A GOOD ONE

 

[Nikes]

Yeah it's as you sort of anticipated, this is actually known knowledge called Egg Toss Slide (ETS for short) that was also in Brawl but transitioned over to this game ahaha. You can also move backwards with it and slide-off stage or onto the ledge with it as well, super useful.

 

[Slice~]

Maan, i was hoping for something new and cool...

 

[Amanti]

Thanks @ Nikes , I figured it was already a thing. That's cool though, I'm learning. Should I delete the thread? Not sure if there's any reason to leave it up, save for the people who may not know about it.

 

[Amanti]

Maan, i was hoping for something new and cool...

Sorry bruh, I iz scrubby.

 

[Sinister Slush]

We have no mod so we can't lock the thread. Think only Admins can delete threads though.

 

[Dyz]

i will be honest, i have seen this before, but never really made it aware to my own hands on doing it....or even trying it in battle, after reading your post, im going to actually start using it now, which is weird considering i been playing with yoshi for such a long time i usually jump then toss eggs, so they come from the sky allowing me time to land and follow up, but im sure this has its own uses i may not have given it a chance, thanks for posting :3

 

[Remioli]

I remember jumping offstage, egg tossing, and nt being able to double jump after. Now I think you can jump-egg toss-double jump. Is this a 1.03 change or am I remembering incorrectly?

 

[Nikes]

You've always been able to double jump out of an up B, so long as you don't cancel it out with tap jump.