So many things to touch on.
I didn't say it was "overpowered" I said S canceling lets ppl spam "their most powerful attacks" I made no melee reference
Well then, if you don't think that it is "overpowered" and you had no intention of claiming it is "overpowered" then how is it bad?
It annoys me how ppl make the same claim to argue against essential things like shield stun but argue for wavedashing
Wavedashing is fun and nice, but that is not the only reason I support the melee air dodge. The most essential benefit of that code is that it limits your number of air dodges to 1, so you can't spam them in the air. That was a bit too good, and it prevented all sorts of things and allowed for somewhat sloppy play. The next good thing about the code is that directional air dodges are helpful when you only have a single air dodge. The brawl air dodge simply followed your trajectory, and the only way to trick your opponent with it was with good timing. With the directional air dodge you can alter your course and allow you to get more out of a single air dodge. All that, plus it just so happens to enable wavedashing as well. Keep in mind, I didn't want wavedashing just because of wavedashing, or just because that's how it was in melee.
Why are you afraid of MK's shield pressure when you were ok with Fox's shield pressure in melee?
Because MK is already borderline too good, and adjusting shield stun seems like something that could easily tip things.
Character balance. The hard hitter's moves are laggier for a reason and by taking away the lag, the character can act differently than he was designed to be
That is a poor argument. You are arguing creators intent yet you are wanting to change the game more than I am. Nintendo can't balance **** anyways. Ganon, Ike, DK, D3, Snake, and Charizard aren't broken because of S-canceling. In fact, the people who sucked the most before (Ganon and Ike) are now actually DECENT because of S-canceling, and the better characters (DK, Snake, and D3) don't get as much out of it.
I find this completely untrue. Ganon has some excellent combos thanks to his flame choke. Have you seen this vid?
Those combos wouldn't work on a human opponent. DI and teching can prevent pretty much everything in that vid. Ganon can only string stuff together at low percents, after that he just lands single big hits.
Yes this is a possibility but you wont find good players who play heavy hitters make this mistake often. I play against an excellent Ganon player that Im sure will change your mind really quickly.
I'm sure I would find my way around it too. How can that one move cause so much trouble? It has a lot of startup time, and he is forced to shield after using it. Sure, it might be devastating against your main, but other characters can break it. Heck, I know Falcon can.
Seriously, just think about it for a second...no lag on aerials...zero lag...tell me that doesn't sound like overkill.
It sounds bad, until you realize that the shield has to come up, and then down, before you can attack.
Bottom line is that strong moves are balanced due to their lag.
Ike is still slow. His base attributes are all slow. All of his moves, except his jabs, have a long startup time. Ike having S-canceling doesn't make him fast. It just gives him a safe approach. With or without S-canceling he telegraphs most of his attacks.
Would you dare be that liberal with Ganon's dair if there were no such thing as auto-canceling? I rest my case. I only talked about two moves...it's already a wall of text, so I'll stop.
Yes. Honestly it isn't broken. Ganon can't even approach with it. Ganon has to be right on top of you, and it takes a while to come out. Good luck setting that up consistently. Also, while thunder stomp is good, Ganon is still terrible.
We know what shield stun will do because we have examples, not to mention debated it to death.
Have examples? Theoretical examples? So you are so sure about shield canceling when you haven't tried it yet, but you hate S-canceling because you simply don't like the fact that slow guys have a few effective approaches now?
I agree. I think that upping the offense like this to compensate for the overpowered defense (shields) is not the right path
I think that adding more and more stuff when we have already achieved a decent balance isn't the right path. I think anecdotal evidence and feelings are a poor measure of what is or isn't broken. You guys want to readjust another factor of the game simply because the current solution isn't the way you envisioned Brawl+ to be. There is nothing wrong with S-canceling. Myself and many others have been TRYING to break the game with it, but to no avail. It simply makes slow characters more viable, as it gives them great approaches. Go back and re-read my section about the slow characters options out of an S-cancel and argue those. None of you actually spent much time debating about that, yet that is what this argument is about when you get right down to it. None of you seem to even realize that a Dedede fair -> grab is actually way better than Ganon's fair or Ike's fair. I know this, and I still don't think S-canceling is remotely broken.
Shield stun though, is a big can of worms that S-canceling couldn't even hope to be compared with. If you really want to tip the game in favor of offense, that would be the way to do it.
