Hitstun/shield stun Thread

[J_RUM]

I want to play online with competetive codes, message me on AIM or reply here.

 

[wazgood]

falcon dthrow to knee combo on metnite is beautiful

 

[homsar]

I was using 12.2% earlier today. Seemed nice. Still not sure though. Does anyone know what melees hitstun was like?

 

[MuBa]

I was using 12.2% earlier today. Seemed nice. Still not sure though. Does anyone know what melees hitstun was like?

Melee's hitstun won't be enough because the attacks in that game was faster than Brawl's.

 

[homsar]

Oh I know, I just want to see where we stand. It might be possible to develop an equation that can tell us what the perfect hitstun would be. I would need the hitstun in melee and then the average attack speed in melee. Figure out the equation then just sub in brawls attack speed and find the hitstun.

Though Im probably just crazy and finding an equation for this isn't possible.

 

[kupo15]

falcon dthrow to knee combo on metnite is beautiful

Dash attack to knee is also beautiful as well as 64 YES! combos!

 

[MuBa]

Oh I know, I just want to see where we stand. It might be possible to develop an equation that can tell us what the perfect hitstun would be. I would need the hitstun in melee and then the average attack speed in melee. Figure out the equation then just sub in brawls attack speed and find the hitstun.

Though Im probably just crazy and finding an equation for this isn't possible.

I understand that you're trying to make a ratio that would be the same for Brawl but another issue is that the attack properties of the characters are widely different.

I'd say the best thing to do is keep on experimenting with different percentages (Also use decimal points even if it's like 10.13456%) you'll eventually find a hitstun that will let you combo with strict timing and accuracy.

 

[MBlaze]

I understand that you're trying to make a ratio that would be the same for Brawl but another issue is that the attack properties of the characters are widely different.

I'd say the best thing to do is keep on experimenting with different percentages (Also use decimal points even if it's like 10.13456%) you'll eventually find a hitstun that will let you combo with strict timing and accuracy.

Lol pain in the @$$ much?

 

[Wind Owl]

I'm sorry, I didn't see the part where you suggest a better idea. Could you repost it?

 

[krlos F.]

12.5% is perfect! believe me!

 

[MBlaze]

I'm sorry, I didn't see the part where you suggest a better idea. Could you repost it?

Relax it was a joke.

And I must try 12.5% it sounds promising.

 

[Almas]

I suggest that we stop using % notation and use decimal instead. 0.4 = normal hitstun
"+10%" = 0.5 = 3F000000
"+15%" = 0.55 = 3F0CCCCD
"+11%" = 0.51 = 3F028F5C
"+12%" = 0.52 = 3F051EB8
"+13%" = 0.53 = 3F07AE14
"+14%" = 0.54 = 3F0A3D71
"+16%" = 0.56 = 3F0F5C29
"+17%" = 0.57 = 3F11EB85
"+18%" = 0.58 = 3F147AE1
"+19%" = 0.59 = 3F170A3D
"+12.5%" = 0.525 = 3F066666
"+13.5%" = 0.535 = 3F08F5C3

I think most of us agree that the appropriate level lies in the 0.5->0.55 range, probably somewhere around 0.53, but keep experimenting. I think the correct level of hitstun will change with gravity, so if you have a recommendation, include any gravity modifiers you use. I personally enjoy increased gravity - will be playing 1.165x, 0.52 today.

 

[Wind Owl]

Everyone playing with other people with these codes on who doesn't have a recording device should send them so someone with a recording device >___>

 

[Starscream]

I suggest that we stop using % notation and use decimal instead. 0.4 = normal hitstun
"+10%" = 0.5 = 3F000000
"+15%" = 0.55 = 3F0CCCCD
"+11%" = 0.51 = 3F028F5C
"+12%" = 0.52 = 3F051EB8
"+13%" = 0.53 = 3F07AE14
"+14%" = 0.54 = 3F0A3D71
"+16%" = 0.56 = 3F0F5C29
"+17%" = 0.57 = 3F11EB85
"+18%" = 0.58 = 3F147AE1
"+19%" = 0.59 = 3F170A3D
"+12.5%" = 0.525 = 3F066666
"+13.5%" = 0.535 = 3F08F5C3

I think most of us agree that the appropriate level lies in the 0.5->0.55 range, probably somewhere around 0.53, but keep experimenting. I think the correct level of hitstun will change with gravity, so if you have a recommendation, include any gravity modifiers you use. I personally enjoy increased gravity - will be playing 1.165x, 0.52 today.

Agreed, this percentage thing is just confusing when the decimal is what we need to know to for hexidecimal conversion anyways. I think this post should be quoted on the first page as well.

And Almas, I usually play with 1.165 gravity as well. If you're up to it maybe we can play online sometime?

 

[Almas]

Sure, I guess, but I'm European, so you'd be lagging all over the place.

Also, no matter how badly balanced it would be, I'd love to see an Auto-S cancel code. Just for the hilarity of things.

 

[kupo15]

I added the values

Everyone playing with other people with these codes on who doesn't have a recording device should send them so someone with a recording device >___>

Yea, I hope ppl can get good matches recorded were it shows off your level of hit stun very well. I won't accept anything less because we don't want to fool ourselves with finding the right level. I have two sections, one with the current gravity and a MOD gravity also

 

[MBlaze]

I added the values



Yea, I hope ppl can get good matches recorded were it shows off your level of hit stun very well. I won't accept anything less because we don't want to fool ourselves with finding the right level. I have two sections, one with the current gravity and a MOD gravity also

I've been asking a lot of people wanted to play, I even made a thread but it got locked.

 

[Revven]

I added the values



Yea, I hope ppl can get good matches recorded were it shows off your level of hit stun very well. I won't accept anything less because we don't want to fool ourselves with finding the right level. I have two sections, one with the current gravity and a MOD gravity also

I might play someone today, though, I'm gonna need a good percentage/decimal so I know what needs to be tried in actual matches.

 

[kupo15]

I've been asking a lot of people wanted to play, I even made a thread but it got locked.

Oh I forgot to add, NON Wifi is most preferable. I think I should only accept non wifi since that is what we base our stuff off of. I know this sounds strict but I dont want us to make the wrong decision based off of lag or things like that..

I might play someone today, though, I'm gonna need a good percentage/decimal so I know what needs to be tried in actual matches.

Try 13%
3F07AE14

 

[Almas]

Almas/Phear vs Kais/Halo Brawl+ 1
Almas/Phear vs Kais/Halo Brawl+ 2
Almas/Phear vs Kais/Halo Brawl+ 3

Halo vs Phear Brawl+
Halo vs Almas Brawl+

1.165x Grav, Auto L-Cancel, 1.1x Damage Ratio, No Tripping, Hitstun 13%, That triple jump code.

[-URL="http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=0BFl-p2KjrA"]Almas/Phear vs Kais/Halo Brawl+ 1[/URL]
[-URL="http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=n_kmUx2VpDU"]Almas/Phear vs Kais/Halo Brawl+ 2[/URL]
[-URL="http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=d6UWR6ZQigE"]Almas/Phear vs Kais/Halo Brawl+ 3[/URL]

[-URL="http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=tRzHCQNP_UE&feature=channel"]Halo vs Phear Brawl+[/URL]
[-URL="http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=wmsU3bBuYso"]Halo vs Almas Brawl+[/URL]

Snipped from Brawl+ thread, contains some videos. Not amazing quality of play, but shows some stuff. Remove dashes from code tags. We tried .52, and after about five minutes of play decided we really didn't like it - some staple comboes became completely undoable, which is surprising considering it was only a .01 change. Toon link is annoying as heck, though.

 

[Wind Owl]

****, Fox is looking almost as sexy as Sheik.

 

[MBlaze]

I suggest that we stop using % notation and use decimal instead. 0.4 = normal hitstun
"+10%" = 0.5 = 3F000000
"+15%" = 0.55 = 3F0CCCCD
"+11%" = 0.51 = 3F028F5C
"+12%" = 0.52 = 3F051EB8
"+13%" = 0.53 = 3F07AE14
"+14%" = 0.54 = 3F0A3D71
"+16%" = 0.56 = 3F0F5C29
"+17%" = 0.57 = 3F11EB85
"+18%" = 0.58 = 3F147AE1
"+19%" = 0.59 = 3F170A3D
"+12.5%" = 0.525 = 3F066666
"+13.5%" = 0.535 = 3F08F5C3

I think most of us agree that the appropriate level lies in the 0.5->0.55 range, probably somewhere around 0.53, but keep experimenting. I think the correct level of hitstun will change with gravity, so if you have a recommendation, include any gravity modifiers you use. I personally enjoy increased gravity - will be playing 1.165x, 0.52 today.

Thanks a lot, needed this. I think that 12.5% might actually be the charm, Kupo you should add this to the OP.

 

[kupo15]

allow me to quote myself Marioblaze

I added the values

 

[MBlaze]

allow me to quote myself Marioblaze

Woops, sorry then. xD

 

[krlos F.]

well I'm not a pro but here a video with 12.5% hitstun.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5vNWVJ-XC4

 

[Starscream]

Sure, I guess, but I'm European, so you'd be lagging all over the place.

Ah, nuts to that then.

 

[storm92]

I have a few matches that could be uploaded (15%, no grav mods, MAD), but I don't have any way to get them off of replays except my ------ camera recording the TV screen.

 

[GameSystem]

http://xat.com/BrawlPlus

This was on the opening post for the Brawl+ support thread except nobody ever reads the opening post. I was asked to repost it everywhere to have it get some attention. It can be used as a makeshift friendfinder if you are looking for brawl+ matches.

 

[oliwonder]

Luigi's Dthrow game is waaaay better now with 12.5% hitstun (1.165 grav and 1.1 dam). Although it's escapable and only effectively works on medium-heavy characters, it's pretty easy to Dthrow "chain grab" to an UpB finish. Lotta other characters' grab games got better too.

 

[Eten]

I can't test this right now and I've been out of this for a while, but I'm glad to see the progress on the new hitstun code and want to get into this ASAP!

 

[SmashChu]

Ok, let me see if I can get this.....

Hitstun=launchspeed/165

Launchspeed is how far the character will be sent. SO, this means a stronger attack will make L higher as will more damage.

Is that right?

 

[kupo15]

No. damage is factored into the launch speed. Higher damage as well as stronger attacks causes more launch speed which means more hit stun

 

[Wind Owl]

Wait, so that means decayed attacks have less hitstun. Ew.

 

[kupo15]

Wait, so that means decayed attacks have less hitstun. Ew.

Correct, but they don't send you as far so it "should" be easier to combo? This happened in melee also except you never really noticed the decay system

 

[leafgreen386]

So after a week of vacation, I AM BACK.

First things first...

HITSTUN MODIFIER! THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THIS IS AMAZING.

Second things second...

Auto l-cancel code out and no one seems to be complaining? Awesome.

Third things third...

I could've told you that +.125 hitstun would be good to try 10 pages (200 or so posts) ago. With most people seemingly split between +.12 and +.13 what better compromise could you have? This is the value I'll be testing today when I go to play brawl+ with a friend.

And final things final...

Lotta discussion about s and l canceling and gravity and junk in this thread, and I see my name got brought up a couple times. Here's my take on the matter:

S-canceling removes a large part of the punishment game. Yes, you can intercept the attack before it happens, but when I'm faced with a normally laggy attack, and I just barely dodge it, I should be able to dash in and get a grab by reacting as quickly as possible. If I'm slow, sure, I could understand my foe spotdodging or throwing out a grab of their own before mine connects, but with s-canceling, that just disappears. Every time your opponent finishes an aerial, you're essentially put back at ground zero, for both sides. If you try rushing in and grabbing, it would be no different than rushing in and grabbing a standing opponent. They can grab you first. I tested s-canceling thoroughly. I'll admit, it wasn't as borked as people say it is, but I think it actually decreases the depth of the game by removing that aspect of the punishment game.

As for increasing shieldstun with the auto l-cancel? I don't think you could get any more perfect. The ALC keeps the punishment game intact for laggy moves, while also making it easier to combo. The shieldstun nerfs the defensive game. Does it break certain multihit moves? It might - if we add too much. It will require much testing to find the perfect amount, I'm sure - the same way hitstun will. But I think it would be a more palatable solution for most people. It's true that the game would be even more offensive based with shieldstun and ALC than it would with just s-canceling, but I also think it would be deeper, requiring more careful weighing of options.

As for gravity? Contrary to what kupo stated, I am very much still in support of it. Or at least... in support of it being applied in addition to an overall upward velocity modifier. All attacks and jumps and upBs should apply a greater force in the upward direction with a gravity mod (except perhaps short hops, because imo they're too high atm, but w/e). People talking about wanting a fall speed modifier are only asking for what we already have. Gravity affects fall speed and nothing else. The greater fall speed resulting from gravity is what is making characters jump shorter. The solution to this would be to increase the force applied when a character is sent upward universally. This fixes both jumps and vertical kill moves. Assuming this is done right, then it should mostly cancel out the effects of the extra gravity, and simply cause characters to fall faster once in freefall. Upward velocity boosts and gravity will take a lot of testing to find the right amount of each, and after that hitstun, as well, but it should fix most of the problems. The one thing that would be a nightmare, however, I believe, is what muba was suggesting. I thought it was brilliant until I thought about it some, but the trajectories that would result from having two different gravities applied depending on whether you're moving up or down would be just plain bizarre. An overall increase in upward velocity on attacks that send you up and on jumps should make things much closer to their normal status.

Although, if this is not possible, then just fixing the jumps and upBs would be fine, I think. Honestly, I play three characters that rely on upward kills - pika, fox, and sheik - and they're all better in higher gravity. For most characters, I think the buffs given by higher grav outweighs the nerfs to their kills. Between gravity and hitstun, comboing becomes much more potent, and makes reaching that higher damage not as big of an issue.

In the end, I think no matter what set of codes we use, we may have to make some slight character specific adjustments, so increasing the force applied specifically for sonic's upB in the higher gravity probably wouldn't be that big of an issue.

Anyway, I'll finish catching up later tonight. I see that I've missed a lot.

 

[MBlaze]

If hitstun is on you will definately need a no jab lock code on because you can do jab lock like crazy, you can F tilt lock because of it and do it 0 to death.

 

[oliwonder]

so i tested 12.5% hitsun (1.1 grav & 1.0625 dmg) and it was way too easy to combo(especially with zamus, luigi, falcon, marth) and chain grab(Luigi is almost broken and almost all can cg at least once or twice). And then i brought hitstun down to 9% and it was still easy to combo. Although these levels allow almost all characters to easily combo, the problem is that avoiding those combos is way too difficult than it should be(even with DI) . All my friends who i tested with say that there's too much lag in reacting to these "combos". One problem has been that although they can DI, they still can't attack back or Airdodge for a long period of time, which makes 4 consecutive Utilts into a combo. Anyone feel the same way? Or besides testing on just doing combos, anyone try focusing on testing how difficult it is to avoid some "combos"?

 

[Makkun]

So, I haven't been in any active discussions lately. However, I'm up for testing codes any time. We REALLY need to figure out a standard as soon as possible, or else we will just be saying the same things over and over again and never get anything accomplished.

Or I could have missed a few pages and I'm completely wrong. Either way, somebody message me, I wanna play some Brawl+. (:

 

[CT Chia]

i still havnt tested these. maybe i will tonight. whats the default value for hitstun in the game?

 

[Wind Owl]

It's all in the OP.

Correct, but they don't send you as far so it "should" be easier to combo? This happened in melee also except you never really noticed the decay system

No, it didn't happen in Melee =_=

Only damage decayed, not knockback.