• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Houston Smash Ultimate Thread

RT

Smash Hero
Joined
Aug 16, 2005
Messages
9,673
Location
...
NNID
Rockettrainer
3DS FC
4038-6677-8162
At this point, it's pretty obvious timeout will happen and kill the fun of singles. People who are determined to timeout people will do their best and not actually play the game. And since any community-enforced rules or punishments will be argued to death, it becomes a lose-lose situation.

The meta is only boring if the players make it boring. Unfortunately, people only care about winning and making the game not fun nowadays. So, if they want to make the meta Brawl 2.0, then that is the grave they will dig for seven more years. And then when people start quitting the scene, they'll act surprised.

I really do hate that the community is letting this problem destroy the meta instead of agreeing not to be asses and just play the game instead of camping.
 
Last edited:

Xyro77

Unity Ruleset Committee Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2003
Messages
17,885
Location
Houston,Tx
There is no way to implement a "play smash, don't be stupid" rule. The best I've come up with is putting a lock on "air time" but that only stops people who platform/ledge stall.....in brawl. Smash 4 I have no idea what to do.
 

RT

Smash Hero
Joined
Aug 16, 2005
Messages
9,673
Location
...
NNID
Rockettrainer
3DS FC
4038-6677-8162
There lies to problem. There is no clear cut method of defining extreme camping/turtling in this game. Longest drought could be considered, since by definition it is the longest period of time a person has gone without attacking someone (missing an attack doesn't affect it), but it's only longest and not total.

But yeah, at this point, it's pretty much gentleman's rule (huehuehue, good luck doing this with some people). Too bad Smash will never have this, albeit it wouldn't need it the gameplay wasn't bad.
 
Last edited:

Xyro77

Unity Ruleset Committee Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2003
Messages
17,885
Location
Houston,Tx
At the same time that^ doesn't stop people from spamming (which would cancel out the "longest drought")) but never approaching.

It also doesn't stop 2 characters going to time simply because they cant kill.

Time outs are a valid part of all competitive fighters and real life sports. We just gotta deal with it.


Honestly, I'm glad a ton of 2 stock matches went to time. It proves my views are correct (as usual).
 
Last edited:

Fliphopper

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 27, 2007
Messages
1,657
Yeah even with 2 stocks. Certain characters are still built to time you out. Was Dabuz Rosalina intent of timing you out?
 

RT

Smash Hero
Joined
Aug 16, 2005
Messages
9,673
Location
...
NNID
Rockettrainer
3DS FC
4038-6677-8162
Timeouts are exceptions in most fighting game matches. Unless there is like 10 seconds left on a clock, then okay fine. But not when you go into a match thinking, "I don't think I can outplay this person/know the matchup...I'LL TIME THEM OUT!"

Like...what do you learn if you win? Sweet, you won by timeout...but what happens when the person catches on and you get bodied the next two games? Your only though process will be, "Man, I lost...I should have camped harder." Not "Man, I lost...I should learn the matchup or get better." So, not only do you not learn anything that can help make you better, you get stuck in a position where you can never improve, and you'll always lose to the same person because you'll try to time them out.

Am I the only one that thinks this sounds stupid??? Like, instead of getting better FIGHTING in a fighting game, you choose to just run away/timeout. You're basically saying, "Why should I fight in a fighting game?"

It just makes no damn sense.
 

Oni•n

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 2, 2014
Messages
389
Location
Sugar Land, Texas
NNID
Onion546714
3DS FC
5129-2796-7326
Why does Denti keep posting that same pic of AeroLink everywhere? Is there something I'm missing? Is it an inside joke or is it just him being weird?
 

gamma1

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 5, 2010
Messages
269
Location
Kingwood, TX
NNID
lokighsh
I certainly can't stand people playing to the clock, but if it gets them the win then they aren't wrong. Given the tools we have in this game, I don't really see a way to get rid of timeouts. It's all the mindset of the player at this point.
 

Xyro77

Unity Ruleset Committee Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2003
Messages
17,885
Location
Houston,Tx
Am I the only one that thinks this sounds stupid??? Like, instead of getting better FIGHTING in a fighting game, you choose to just run away/timeout. You're basically saying, "Why should I fight in a fighting game?"

It just makes no damn sense.
Running is also attacking/defending. Just like inaction is an action. It's completely valid and legal.
 
Last edited:

UltimateRazer

Smash Champion
Joined
May 20, 2008
Messages
2,989
Location
Houston, TX
I know your quells RT. It sucks cause I go full feral but some people just have to make me slow down, although it never goes to time because I'm too feral lol. And I can't say "well just go in" to some people because my character gives me the tools to do that. Just scumbag players who camp/go to time. I hate them. I hope the meta changes. Imagine me being in that top 8? Not being arrogant but pretty sure it would of been 10X more entertaining in those matches.
 

RT

Smash Hero
Joined
Aug 16, 2005
Messages
9,673
Location
...
NNID
Rockettrainer
3DS FC
4038-6677-8162
Running is also attacking/defending. Just like inaction is an action. It's completely valid and legal.
It's valid and legal because people are putting up/encouraging it.

And that is also the kind of thinking I despise in a FIGHTING game. Git gud at fighting, stop being a wimp. If you beat someone by timing them out, you proved you are good at timing people. Not that you outplayed them, not you were better at the matchup, not that you're skilled. You're just good at doing at wasting time. Congrats, I want to get a cleaver and cut my hands off.
 

Xyro77

Unity Ruleset Committee Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2003
Messages
17,885
Location
Houston,Tx
At the end of the day, a win is a win as long as it's rule abiding. It doesn't matter if it's not fun to watch/experience (tournaments are not Meant for viewership/personal pleasure). Time outs happen in the NFL all the time and you don't hear people yelling "get good." It's a cheap tactic for sure but it's legal.
 
Last edited:

RT

Smash Hero
Joined
Aug 16, 2005
Messages
9,673
Location
...
NNID
Rockettrainer
3DS FC
4038-6677-8162
I know, but it's just sad to see the meta slowly die this early on. But hey, reap what you sow. You wanted Brawl 2.0, so ta-da. GGs
 

Xyro77

Unity Ruleset Committee Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2003
Messages
17,885
Location
Houston,Tx
The game will not die as long as people allow many stages, keep stocks high and ban dumb **** like diddy.

Learn from brawl.
 

UltimateRazer

Smash Champion
Joined
May 20, 2008
Messages
2,989
Location
Houston, TX
Idk about the stock thing after watching Dabuz. 3 stocks with aggressive players is fine but watching that with players like Dabuz....disgusting.
 

Xyro77

Unity Ruleset Committee Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2003
Messages
17,885
Location
Houston,Tx
Idk about the stock thing after watching Dabuz. 3 stocks with aggressive players is fine but watching that with players like Dabuz....disgusting.
Again, viewership/personal pleasure should NEVER be considered when making rules.
 
Last edited:

RT

Smash Hero
Joined
Aug 16, 2005
Messages
9,673
Location
...
NNID
Rockettrainer
3DS FC
4038-6677-8162
Again, viewership/personal pleasure should NEVER be considered when making rules.
This can never achieved. Even something as simple as stock count is based on opinion, unless it comes directly from the creator. The only hint of an "official" ruleset from Sakurai is going by For Glory rules, which is two stock 5 minute FD only.
 
Last edited:

Xyro77

Unity Ruleset Committee Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2003
Messages
17,885
Location
Houston,Tx
Why can't the players be put into consideration? That stuff literally will kill the game.
You don't get to "have it your way" aka Burger King style.

You are there to play the game. Not try and have rules altered because you don't wanna sit through spam/slow matches. If it's not centralizing the game, Man up, deal with it and play smash.

Speed/camp never killed any smash game. Bad rules did.
 
Last edited:

Teshie U

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 13, 2013
Messages
1,594
Club Nintendo added a bunch of new rewards today including full retail games like Game and Wario, Wonderful 101 and Kid Icarus Uprising.

Then the site crashed.

Something to keep in mind for you folks who have coins to spend though.
 

RT

Smash Hero
Joined
Aug 16, 2005
Messages
9,673
Location
...
NNID
Rockettrainer
3DS FC
4038-6677-8162
Yeah, I tried to buy some of the physical goods, since I own a lot of the games already.

Was gonna grab those Smash posters.
 

Xyro77

Unity Ruleset Committee Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2003
Messages
17,885
Location
Houston,Tx
Club Nintendo added a bunch of new rewards today including full retail games like Game and Wario, Wonderful 101 and Kid Icarus Uprising.

Then the site crashed.

Something to keep in mind for you folks who have coins to spend though.

Is Game&Wario good? I might get that WiiU game.
 

Teshie U

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 13, 2013
Messages
1,594
i had the option of game and wario or doctor luigi last year for my platinum and i regret dr luigi deeply.

game and wario doesnt look that good, but since you already have w101 iono. you could get the fierce deity jigsaw puzzle or that majoras messenger bag.
 

Xyro77

Unity Ruleset Committee Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2003
Messages
17,885
Location
Houston,Tx
Personally, I don't like any of the physical items. The games are what I'm looking at. But I may not have enough to get any WiiU games cause I only have 50 coins. Even if I register all of my games I may only have 400.
 

RT

Smash Hero
Joined
Aug 16, 2005
Messages
9,673
Location
...
NNID
Rockettrainer
3DS FC
4038-6677-8162
Game&Wario is the worst game in the Warioware series. I would say don't get it unless nothing else interests you.
 

Trela

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 22, 2008
Messages
1,748
Location
Cypress, TX
Ok, it's time for me to make the post I've been wanting to make ever since SAM 1 happened, and now after attending a tournament after the one in San Antonio and after watching Apex, I feel like I can finally put my voice out there.

I believe I have lost the will to compete in Smash.

In order to help explain why I feel this way, I want to take you all back to our time with Brawl in TX.

It's no stranger to anyone that Gnes and Razer were a dominating force during nearly the entirety of Brawl's lifespan. It wasn't until HOBO 36 that I beat them both at the same tournament for the first time. One would think that I would of felt amazing for finally accomplishing such a feat that was considered to be almost impossible here in this state, and I did feel great at first.......but I always found myself looking back on that tournament. Something about that tournament changed the way I looked at Brawl from a competitive standpoint. Would you like to know what it was? It was because I didn't approach. I went in that tournament with the sole intention of camping these two until the timer was ready to give up. Some people may ask, "Well what's the problem with that? You're just playing to win." Let me tell you why this angers me.

Because they don't understand.

This is going to sound like the most elitist thing you will ever hear from me, but unless you have the results, you will not fully comprehend what is happening at the top level of play, even in Brawl. I believed that I finally became one of these players after that HOBO, and I even went on to prove this at my best performance at a Brawl tournament ever at SKTAR. But I learned of the terrible fate that was Brawl's future competitively for the player that "plays to win".

Now this is going to be a bit off-topic and me just trying to be less serious here, but for those of you that watched Gurren Lagann, do you remember when Simon learns from the Anti-Spiral about the Spiral Nemesis? That is EXACTLY how I felt at HOBO 36 that day. I learned that if I were to continue to play the way as I did (converting Spiral Energy into Camping), I would ultimately be the very cause of Brawl's death (turn the universe into a black hole AKA Apex 2014).

Basically, I felt like I took everything I learned about basics, fundamentals and anything else that makes Smash Brothers what it is.......and threw it all out the window. Every situation theoretically that could put me into a bad spot in Brawl was CURED by just not approaching. When I said that I felt great after winning that day, it's because I chose to IGNORE all of this for my own personal reasons.......that I could help bring life back into Brawl again by beating all of the Meta Knights with Lucario. But at what cost?

It's agreed by 99% of the Smash community that camping and timing out others is toxic and poisonous to any Smash game. You are not truly playing Smash the way it was meant to be played.......BY FIGHTING. Those players that make up the 1% do not care for the future of our game. They only think about themselves and how much money they can win. It's all about them. First place or bust. Do or die. Play to win or don't come home. Smash becomes a tool for them to use in order to get what they want. They only fun they get out of playing is in fact when they win. This is not how I want to play Smash 4.

I only bring this up with Smash 4 because of one problem: Diddy Kong. Playing against Denti's Diddy felt like I was confronting a fortune teller who looked into their crystal ball and said, "This is what it will all come down to. Do you wish to continue?". It was as though the Monado gave me a vision of the future of Smash 4. There is only one way to beat this character, and that is by camping. Dabuz came to the same conclusion shortly before Apex, and he went in with the intention of timing out Diddy, if it ever came down to it, and he played like this throughout the whole tournament, making every other non-Diddy suffer. And now he's being ridiculed for his slow play everywhere I go. I even saw posts that said they WANTED ZeRo to beat Dabuz, even if they were originally against ZeRo himself. What ever could this mean!? Here, let me give a hint for you:

SPIRALNEMESISSPIRALNEMESISSPIRALNEMESISSPIRALNEMESISSPIRALNEMESISSPIRALNEMESISSPIRALNEMESIS

I think RT said it best in one of his posts, that it becomes a lose-lose situation. Lose to Diddy? Ugh, he's so broken. Beat Diddy by camping? Ugh, you're so gay.

Now I understand that camping will always exist in some form or another even if Diddy was taken out of the picture. But I can already tell that this game has balance without him. I believe that there is a lot of potential for counterpicks against most of what we're seeing now. This is why I will always support Houston's and San Antonio's rulesets. I trust that they will deal with this problem correctly. I still question whether or not I want to travel to nationals like EVO, but it all depends on the ruleset and what happens with Diddy.

And to expand a little on the subject of our rulesets, I meant that playing against you guys (Houston/SA) is what keeps me in this game. We make 3 stocks look like it should be the standard. I don't think our matches ever go over 4 minutes. We're just THAT aggressive. Well, ok, maybe Zori's matches are a little too long.......

And OH MY GOSH this post was IMPOSSIBLE to type up. I feel like I can see a lot of contradictions in what I'm trying to explain, but I hope that's just me. I've NEVER been good at this kind of thing, but I hope you guys enjoy the long read nonetheless, lol.
 

RT

Smash Hero
Joined
Aug 16, 2005
Messages
9,673
Location
...
NNID
Rockettrainer
3DS FC
4038-6677-8162
I KNEW IT, YOU CAMPED LIKE A **** IN BRAWL.. Jk, everyone did it because it worked.

Smash 4 is different because being aggressive *can* work, because some characters HAVE to go feral to get maximum effect. I mean, you could camp with Fox/Falcon, or you can pressure all day and make them crap their pants.

I am glad a majority of Houston doesn't make the game too unpleasant for each other for the most part.

Diddy is a whole separate issue I purposely have said zero things about since Diddy won Apex. I honestly think Diddy has safer options and better kill setups than MK ever did in Brawl, which is a bold claim. Diddy's only weakness is that he's light (sound familiar) and susceptible to bad recovery (but this comes natural considering how unsafe the edge/offstage is in this game). He really does have at least 2-3 answers for every option in the game.
 
Last edited:

Xyro77

Unity Ruleset Committee Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2003
Messages
17,885
Location
Houston,Tx
*reads Trela's post*
*translating.....*
*translating.....*
*reaches conclusive results*
*outputs results in English*


"Xyro has been right about everything this whole time"

*ends*
 
Last edited:

Espy Rose

Dumb horse.
Joined
May 31, 2006
Messages
30,577
Location
Texas
NNID
EspyRose
It's a fighting game. Fight.

:applejack:

In all of RT's posts in the last page, and Trela's wall, I translated everything about players willing to camp/sacrifice the game's health just for money to be Dallas.
 
Last edited:

Nkguy01

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 11, 2013
Messages
177
Location
Houston Texas
Yeah the hitstun and airdodge lag upon landing don't do much to rid of defensive playstyles :/ oh well, play it or quit.
 

RT

Smash Hero
Joined
Aug 16, 2005
Messages
9,673
Location
...
NNID
Rockettrainer
3DS FC
4038-6677-8162
How the the Holy Diddy Empire works:

-They win tournaments and take local money
-They use the money to feed themselves and travel to spread to other locations.
-You get salty, convert and pick up Diddy, ravage your local scene, then start traveling to other places as well.

Thus a cycle is born where they will slowly engulf the world. United, under one will, one dthrow, one uair.

It's beautiful.
 
Last edited:

Nkguy01

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 11, 2013
Messages
177
Location
Houston Texas
How the the Holy Diddy Empire works:

-They win tournaments and take local money
-They use the money to feed themselves and travel to spread to other locations.
-You get salty, convert and pick up Diddy, ravage your local scene, then start traveling to other places as well.

Thus a cycle is born where they will slowly engulf the world. United, under one will, one dthrow, one uair.

It's beautiful.
Hoo haa make me cri everytim
 

RT

Smash Hero
Joined
Aug 16, 2005
Messages
9,673
Location
...
NNID
Rockettrainer
3DS FC
4038-6677-8162
Nah, just join the Empire. It's better that way.
 

Airbrush_King

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 11, 2008
Messages
615
Location
Houston Tx
Aint nuttin wrong with camping trela. I like to go camping and roast me some marshmallows and yogi bear it up with some picnic baskets mayne. We grubbin, Acha!
 
Top Bottom