How Competitively Viable Would NPCs Be?

[Level9Chao]

I was screwing around in the Debug Menu tonight and played some games as the two Fighting Wireframes, Giga Koopa, default SoPo, and Sandbag for fun.

The Wireframes feel terrible to play; their timing on everything feels really off (plus no B moves, charge smashes, low damage, etc). Then I thought... just how bad are they? Like, Pichu bad? How would all these characters fare if they were thrown on the tier list for fun?

I don't know how much experience anyone else has playing Debug stuff, just something fun I was wondering.

 

[Ezzee]

Giga bowser. GG no re

 

[Mr.Jackpot]

Depends. Master Hand can't be killed outside of Stamina mode so there's that.

 

[choknater]

default sopo sounds fun lol

giga bowser would definitely be broken

wireframes sound like BUTT. they don't have B attacks right?

actually male wire frame might be decent if he's a tall captain falcon

 

[pokemongeof]

NPCs are cool, but Level 9 Luigi is da bes

 

[Frame Perfect]

I was screwing around in the Debug Menu tonight and played some games as the two Fighting Wireframes, Giga Koopa, default SoPo, and Sandbag for fun.

lmfao is there a conceivable moveset for Sandbag? like what would be his tilts? his corners? kadano, i desperately need hitboxes for Sandbag…

yo yo yo what if sandbag’s special was like him spewing sand everywhere and when he does that he goes from fastfaller to floatie. MINDGAMES

 

[Level9Chao]

Unless you use a move swapping code, Sandbag's default moveset is:

Slide back and forth
Single Jump

Also he is unaffected by blast zones.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHQ4JybwuVc

 

[Bones0]

Depends. Master Hand can't be killed outside of Stamina mode so there's that.

MH is the worst character. All you have to do is hit him with a single attack and survive for 8 minutes (if you're decent at Melee and still can't avoid all of his moves then idk what to tell you).

 

[Mr.Jackpot]

MH is the worst character. All you have to do is hit him with a single attack and survive for 8 minutes (if you're decent at Melee and still can't avoid all of his moves then idk what to tell you).

He'll lose in a time over no matter what?

 

[Bones0]

He'll lose in a time over no matter what?

No, you have to have less percent obviously.

 

[ycz12]

Bones is talking about tournament rules, where in a tied-stock game the player with less damage wins.

 

[Frame Perfect]

regarding Sandbag:


perhaps it is best his moveset void; for these thoughts raise too many concerns. take for instance, if Sandbag were a viable character, what would become of the phrase ‘You got sandbagged b*tch’? if sandbagging took on an alternate meaning, how could we possibly distinguish Sandbagging from sandbagging? such polysemy would confuse newcomers and those used to much simpler concepts, like those prevalent in wayward inferior games(BRAWL).

also if spewing sand where his special, it also begs the question… would he then just be referred to as Bag? major identity crisis

 

[Massive]

I've done some pretty extensive messing around with the non-playable characters and none of them are really viable without some substantial alteration.

Gigabowser is not a viable character because he causes substantial framedrops on nearly every stage except FD.
Also, his recovery, roll, and ledge tactics are statically set in size. If he is reduced to regular bowser size (which is only fair, since he's basically a giant hitbox otherwise) his recovery is enormous and his rolls/get-up attacks are incredibly long-ranged and disjointed.

The Wireframes are terrible because they're so tall that most of their moves will miss any ducking opponent. Their grabs will miss almost any character while ducking, it's actually kind of hilarious. Even reduced to regular size, female wireframe is bad because she's basically zelda with no third jump and no heel. Male wireframe is a slow Captain Falcon with no launching knee hitbox. They both lose horizontal momentum on jumps (especially the second jump), making comboing nearly impossible from a traditional perspective.

Bad chars are bad.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Popo is probably near the bottom of mid tier.

 

[Jonas]

Depends. Master Hand can't be killed outside of Stamina mode so there's that.

But he's somehow still terrible.

 

[KayB]

If Giga Bowser somehow becomes competitively viable in the future, I'll be keeping a pocket Jiggs.