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How could it be? Projectile Powershielding with Yoshi.

Yikarur

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Phantom Hit + Powershield lol (Falcos Laser)




I don't exactly know how to do this. I tried it a loooot of times and sometimes it happend sometimes not. (always with frame by frame hack)


So we should research for this.
I'll test more later but I want you to know this and perhaps to research too if you can.

and pls don't say "Powershielding with Yoshi is unnecessary and doesn't help at all"
everything we can get steps up Yoshis Metagame and that is what counts.
 

Delta-cod

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Alas, it's true.

It's technically helpful if you're shielding a single projectile, but you might as well Jump over it/AD through it at that point/range.
 

Yikarur

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"and pls don't say "Powershielding with Yoshi is unnecessary and doesn't help at all"
everything we can get steps up Yoshis Metagame and that is what counts."

addionally normaly Yoshi can shield projectiles at Frame 6, this proofs there is a way to shield from the very first frame.

+ we have no shieldknockback.

I said EVERYTHING we could get steps up Yoshis Metagame.
Yoshi is a bad charakter and everything we discover helps us.
 

Delta-cod

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Wait, so those PS's were on frame 1? O.o

Yika, what we meant by saying it's not useful is that due to having a slow Shield Drop speed, the PS isn't helpful since we can't do anything out of it. It DOES help us get out a bit faster due to no shield stun, but it can't be used as effectively as other characters' PS.
 

Yikarur

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don't you think I know it myself? :p

sure it doesn't help as much as for the other charakters but its help a bit and that is for what I posted it here.
So instead of criticism for the thread I want people who help me to find out how it to perform this.
^^
 

Shiri

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:yoshi: I have my Action Replay disc around here somewhere...

If Yoshi's shield behaves the same way in Brawl as it does in Melee with regards to powershielding, then I would be able to explain why he can powershield earlier than frame six. It would be heavy guesswork on my part, though, especially since you haven't been able to get consistent results with this yet.
 

Yikarur

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well in Melee Yoshi is invincible in the first frames of his shield (before he visually shields), in Brawl not. :/
 

Shiri

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:yoshi: Well, I was more concerned with the area in which Yoshi can powershield during those first six frames.

In Melee, there is a small area surrounding Yoshi that counts toward powershielding before he visibly shields, so I'm wondering if that's the case here.
 

Yikarur

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Everything helps guys.


Finally who understands me xDD



So far I have success with Falcos Lasers (There are flying the same way every time)
I often get the Powershield but sometimes I don't (its weird).
With Yoshis Eggs I get the powershield everytime in certain situations. (As long I don't move away)
its very weird. I don't see a system behind this until now but I try to find it out.
 

Shiri

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:yoshi: If I'm correct, the pictures show Yoshi performing projectile powershielding before frame 6.

This is significant because currently the only way to block projectiles normally is on frame 6. Powershielding occurring before this frame threshold can open up some inroads into finding out how the shield truly works.
 

Poltergust

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You know, before seeing Yikarur's frame-data thread, I didn't know that Yoshi couldn't shield projectiles before frame 6. >.>

It would be interesting to see just how his shield works with regards to projectiles. Good luck finding it out! :)


:069:
 

bigman40

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Yikarur, you're gonna have to explain this one to me. When I did my testing, Yoshi could powershield like everyone else (frame 1 & 2). His shielding animation is like a trick because it still gives the exact same things as everyone else's shield save from the fact the his shield drop animation is a ****load longer.
 

Depster

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You know this really is a lot more viable than people think. What all characters can intelligently shoot projectiles that fast? Even Falco is going to SHDL.
 

Yikarur

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Physical Attacks are blocked the same way as the other shields (Frame 1) but at my testings this does not occur for projectiles. Throw an Egg at Yoshi and try to shield it, you'll get it.

btw the thing with the powershield gives us a shield from Frame 1. Not Frame 1 only and frame 2-5 not.
Its confusing because there is no logical aspect so far.

it has maybe something to do with distance and strength of the projectile but I don't know.
I'll test later after school. (the most of you are sleeping now :D ^^)


So Short Summary
Yoshi blocks physical attacks at Frame 1
Projectiles aren't normally block until Frame 6 (could be Frame 7 because of this find I have to retest)
There is a way to block projectiles from frame 1 on.

So I hope its now understandable D:
 

Shiri

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:yoshi: I'm having really inconclusive results right now. Tomorrow I'm going to take some AR snapshots and post.
 

Bwett

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So I tested this alot last night, mostly because I KNOW Yoshi can powershield projectiles. However, I didn't know about his weird shield properties associated with projectiles. I took Falco and placed him on FD vs Yoshi.

For physical attacks, think of Yoshi's shield exactly as other shields, besides having more frames to release shield.

For projectile attacks, Yoshi's shield starts acting really weird. In general, it takes 7 frames for Yoshi's shield to become visible, and I believe our "normal" blocking starts on frame 7 as well (will test all this again on Wednesday night). For falco's laser, I tested frames 1-6 to see what happens. (I don't remember frame 6 exactly but I think he got hit)

On my first batch of attempts, he got hit on every frame until he was able to normally shield on frame 7. I knew this had to be wrong because if I didn't use frame by frame and just played the game, I could powershield his laser.

I attempted it again, but this time, I faced away from Falco (back facing Falco). I PS'ed on frames 1-3...so I thought, well maybe his shield PS's differently depending on the direction he faces. I turned back around and ended up PSing on frames 1-4. I tried it again and I got hit on frame 1...so now I'm completely stumped.

It could have to do with many different things: direction you face, distance from opponent, how close the projectile is to you before you shield, your standing position (because Yoshi never stands still), or it could be completely random. I plan on testing this more, but this is what I remembered happened last night...it was a frustrating night lol
 

Bwett

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It could be the position of his nose...his extended hurtbox. I also noticed every so often that when it glancing blowed his nose about to hit his body, it PS'ed. But once against, I'm not positive. That all relates to his relative position in his standing animation since he constantly moves.
 

Airborne

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this is too **** weird....
i would ask if maybe his shield starts from behind him or something, but that just wouldn't make any sense... i'm completely befuddled by the properties of his shield... i wish we could figure out HOW they made the mechanics for his shield in contrast to everyone else's, and then i think we could actually get somewhere with this...
 

SOVAman

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It could be the position of his nose...his extended hurtbox. I also noticed every so often that when it glancing blowed his nose about to hit his body, it PS'ed. But once against, I'm not positive. That all relates to his relative position in his standing animation since he constantly moves.
 

Depster

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;-;

Yoshi is so weird. Isn't it just the coolest thing ever?

From all this shield talk, maybe we'll get something useful about his drop, too?
 

Poltergust

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I just want to know, can we do a spot-dodge during all of Yoshi's shield-dropping frames?

:069:
 

Bwett

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Sethlon and I figured it out, and its really really gay lol. I'll explain it more when I have more time.

EDIT: So this is what happens. Keep in mind all of this is with projectiles and wasn't tested for physical hurtboxes.

Everyone has a sphere-like shield except for Yoshi. For everyone else, their hurtboxes barely move when they put up their shield and it covers almost all, if not all of their body. When any hit box comes in contact with a character's shield during the first 6 frames, it counts as a powershield. However, you can shield stab if a hitbox hits a hurtbox without touching the shield.

Yoshi is different. When Yoshi gets in his shield (which is egg-shaped), his hurtboxes move considerably since he has to bend down and curl up to get in his shield. This would not be a problem if Yoshi's shield was sphere-like. However, because it is egg-shaped, it does not cover his nose properly, and projectiles can end up hitting his nose as he bends down within the first 6 frames without touching the egg-like PS area. Thus, it pokes Yoshi and hits him.

To give you a good idea, I'll give an example I did. Falco and Yoshi are on FD. Falco shoots a laser at Yoshi, and it hits Yoshi. You put Yoshi in the same exact spot and 1 frame before it hits, you shield. If the laser is close enough to Yoshi, it will touch the PS area and you will powershield the laser. In the same exact spot, you shoot another laser, and this time you shield 2 frames before the laser is supposed to hit your hurtboxes. Yoshi bends down on the next frame and extends his hurtbox, getting hit by the laser, 1 frame before you were supposed to get hit.

Basically, the hitbox has to be close enough to you in order to PS it. If it isn't, it will end up hitting your nose. You can PS on frames 1-3. Starting on frame 4, it is a normal shield. Because the nose is the only issue, if your back is facing the projectile, you will PS on frames 1-3 every time with no worry.

In essence, you will never really know if the attack will powershield if it is anywhere near the vicinity of your nose. If you plan to powershield a projectile, put your back to the projectile and it's much easier and reliable.

This whole argument also extends to physical attacks. We thought that physical attacks were somehow different than projectiles for shielding with Yoshi, but it's the exact same. The only reason we don't have the same problem is because almost all physical attacks have much larger hitboxes and end up never shieldpoking because they extend to our PS area. It doesn't matter whether the hitbox touches the hurtbox as long as it also touches the PS area as well. It counts as a PS then. It's only when it ONLY touches the hurtbox.

Like I said...gay lol
 

Airborne

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i might quit yoshi just because i'm raging over this bull****....
like, while i'm doing homework assignments at 1:19 in the morning, i might just slam my fists down on the keyboard, and wake everyone in the house by yelling "**** YOSHI!!!" at the top of my lungs....

i'm tellin you, man... this is just plain stupid... -.-
 

hadesblade

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Thats so bad T_T thanks for finding it out for us atleast :p

And it does make a lot of sense...
 

bigman40

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This at least gives me an idea about using the doop walk to setup for PSing (considering that Yoshi from his backside is like normal characters). Even though I should be surprised, I'm not even mad or w/e in the slightest. Thx for the information Bwett/
 

Airborne

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it's far more situational for yoshi, yet it's probably just a minor setback... it still pisses me off though that sakurai's physics on the havok engine defy the laws of pwnshi so hard that he is not as entertaining without a reliable OoS/dominating PSing game...

also, scatz, doop walking? o.O
 

bigman40

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it's far more situational for yoshi, yet it's probably just a minor setback... it still pisses me off though that sakurai's physics on the havok engine defy the laws of pwnshi so hard that he is not as entertaining without a reliable OoS/dominating PSing game...

also, scatz, doop walking? o.O
Yeah. While it's going to be a very low chance that this will be applied, I was thinking of using the doop walk to walk into a long attack (Lucario's Fsmash) and Doop walk to turn around so that you can PS the move and unshield so that you probably have enough time to do a move around 6-8 frames or something.
 
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