How did they miss it?!

[DiasFlac]

The people who made brawl. How did they miss some of this glitches and exploits?

DDD chain grab was discovered the first day brawl was released in stories. (in Japan) I saw it on youtube and thought to myself "I'm sure that wont work for real I mean they delayed the game twice to make sure everything was checked" then its released to the public and people find it it really works.

Ness and Lucas can be grabbed and re grabbed by any character. How did they miss that?! :koopa: Why didn't they make it so once you escape the grab you can attack *snaps* right then and their? or make it so you can always jump out of it if you wanted to.

If the person is beating on you you can't jump out of it its so stupid!!

Iceclimbers can chain grab any character till death. Just wait till someone perfects that. Its going to be so common in tounys if not banned.

I don't see how they can miss these things. I mean it just seems like something you would expect. Chain grabs is something that was in melee they should have made perfect sure that no character can perform this by making every down throw like Fox's or Ike's (where they go up but not as high as an up throw instead of right in front of you like Falco's and DDD)

Your thoughts on this?

 

[Andydark]

The Ice Climbers could do this in Melee if I'm not mistaken.

And Ness and Lucas are only affected by Marth?

One of them is also affected by Squirtle and Charizard...

 

[Ojanya]

You don't understand competitive smash at all. I invite you to learn more about it, because you'll just post ignorant things like this.

 

[The Real Gamer]

Ness and Lucas can't be chain grabbed by every character.... I don't know where you got that from, but make sure you get your facts straight before making any false assumptions.

 

[The Executive]

Pretty sure D3's CG was intentional.

 

[Rebel581]

You don't understand competitive smash at all. I invite you to learn more about it, because you'll just post ignorant things like this.

Learning new things and advancing the metagame =/= killing the game. Infinites are bad for competitive play.

 

[DiasFlac]

K I'm sorry I even posted this. After reading you all replies I can see how silly these boards are. Man you guys just don't get it at all.

I said nothing about competitive brawl and yet someone says I don't understand it, Read the Ness character board about characters that can infinity grab on Ness, and someone here even thinks that D3 chain grab was something they MEANT to put in.

I guess that makes sense. Someone said "Hey lets make it so D3 can chain grab Bowser (and some other characters) infinity to BALANCE the game"

I think Ima just stop posting in smash boards unless its a question for now on because I've noticed every time I try to have a discussion ppl turn it into a "Your dumb because of this" kinda thing.

 

[The Real Gamer]

K I'm sorry I even posted this. After reading you all replies I can see how silly these boards are. Man you guys just don't get it at all.

I said nothing about competitive brawl and yet someone says I don't understand it, Read the Ness character board about characters that can infinity grab on Ness, and someone here even thinks that D3 chain grab was something they MEANT to put in.

I guess that makes sense. Someone said "Hey lets make it so D3 can chain grab Bowser (and some other characters) infinity to BALANCE the game"

I think Ima just stop posting in smash boards unless its a question for now on because I've noticed every time I try to have a discussion ppl turn it into a "Your dumb because of this" kinda thing.

I'm not trying to say you know nothing about competitive Brawl. I just wanted to point out that Ness and Lucas CANNOT be CG'd by EVERY character in the game. From what I know it is a few characters like Marth and some others. Sorry if that upset you.

 

[Tyr_03]

lol

10chars

 

[-Ran]

With just eleven days at retail, Super Smash Bros. Brawl has passed the million units sold mark in Japan. The game is the fastest selling on the Wii so far, outdoing Wii Fit and Wii Sports, which sold a million in seven and eleven weeks respectively. Brawl is set for a March 9th North American release.

100 or so Beta testers vs a million players.

So, let's assume they had a build to test for three months. That's 480 hours [40 hours work week] if testing per employee. That's 48,000 hours of total testing. Not to shabby. Except, once you compare that testing time to the RAW amount of game time that the users are able to put in it, it is insanely easy to see WHY things are found quickly and not fixed before a game is released.

 

[Circus]

DiasFlac just isn't quite as up to date on the Ness/Lucas CG thing. It was thought for a while that most (if not every) characters could do this. It's apparently been proven that only Marth can do it to Lucas and only Marth and Pokemon Trainer can do it to Ness.

 

[FeArTeHsMaSh]

Gamers always discover glitches that the creators would never have discovered. It's only logical.

 

[Lord Aether]

Ness and Lucas can't be chain grabbed by every character.... I don't know where you got that from, but make sure you get your facts straight before making any false assumptions.

Both take infinites from Marth, however I believe Ness also takes infinites from Pokemon Trainer. Correct me if I'm wrong, and add whatever's missing.

 

[The Real Gamer]

Both take infinites from Marth, however I believe Ness also takes infinites from Pokemon Trainer. Correct me if I'm wrong, and add whatever's missing.

Nope, you're right.

 

[linkx3728]

there are glitches in EVERY game, well i don't know about every game, but a majority of them. it's programing, it's not like they cna just see it and say "GOTTA FIX THIS" and it gets fixed, it's codes and stuff that even when it's corrected it's still not fixed.

 

[OmegaXXII]

there are glitches in EVERY game, well i don't know about every game, but a majority of them. it's programing, it's not like they cna just see it and say "GOTTA FIX THIS" and it gets fixed, it's codes and stuff that even when it's corrected it's still not fixed.

I guess your right about the part that programmers can't get everything fixed, but still how could the Ice Climbers chain grab not have been fixed?

 

[Xsyven]

I said nothing about competitive brawl and yet someone says I don't understand it.

If you know how to chaingrab with the Ice Climbers, you're a competitive Brawler. =/

 

[ph00tbag]

I'm also in the D3 chaingrab was probably intentional crowd. I wouldn't put it past Sakurai to find some way to make his creation unnecessarily good, considering the other things he put in the game.

 

[DiasFlac]

thanks for the replies everyone. I'm just trying to have a discussion with the smash community on this subject about how you all think they manage to miss out of some of these exploits and glitches and most of you did well of doing this.

I guess from what some of you said its easier then it seems for the makers to miss out on something that seems like it should be spotted or brought up doing the testing process.

I know competitive brawlers like myself will use these exploits (well I main Bowser,Zelda and Ness and they don't have many exploits so I won't be doing any chain grabs since they can't do it) to win matches and I won't complain if they do. I mean if one of my mains could do this I would to.

Play to win thats what I go by. Would be great if they patched it tho but meh they already made their money so why waste the time.

 

[orintemple]

It is sad that these kind of stupid infinites and things are going to be the main competitive game of Brawl in some cases, but thats just the way it is. I'm not going to stop using exploits to win but I will still feel a little dirty for it

 

[House M.D.]

i'm actually going to agree with diasflac for one reason. while i understand that the beta testers are vastly outnumbered by the gamers/smash community, if sakurai/brawl's developers had talked to any of the japanese pros, they would have warned them about chain grabs, and small changes would have prevented chain grabs (lengthen distance lucas and ness and everyone move when let go). despite sakurai's 'i want everyone to be happy attitude,' i feel he has shown disrespect to the competitive community (unlike melee, which made everyone happy).

 

[Yuna]

Because they simply don't care. Brawl is one the most poorly beta tested fighting games in gaming history. In fact, it might be among one of the glitchiest games ever made, especially considering its budget.

Either they didn't care and didn't do extensive beta testing or their beta testers sucked. A lot of the stages are still so bad most people I know, which includes non-Competitive ones, categorically refuse to play on them. The balance of items, Final Smashes and in some cases characters is laughable (I mean, come on, Yoshi? Ganondorf?).

It's obvious they either didn't care or did a really poor job. Sakurai should've learned from Melee that throws with very little knockback, almost set such (or actually set such) can be abused for chaingrabbing, but did he remove those altogether? No.

There's also the possible 3rd option:
Laziness. The beta testers were actually somewhat competent (unthinkable, I know) and found a lot of these glitches, but Sakurai & Co were too lazy to correct them (or we could be back to the "They just didn't care" theory).

 

[Andromeda]

The game would've been completely worthless competitively without them (almost). But it would've been way better if wavedash and stuff still was performable.

 

[DiasFlac]

Because they simply don't care. Brawl is one the most poorly beta tested fighting games in gaming history. In fact, it might be among one of the glitchiest games ever made, especially considering its budget.

Either they didn't care and didn't do extensive beta testing or their beta testers sucked. A lot of the stages are still so bad most people I know, which includes non-Competitive ones, categorically refuse to play on them. The balance of items, Final Smashes and in some cases characters is laughable (I mean, come on, Yoshi? Ganondorf?).

It's obvious they either didn't care or did a really poor job. Sakurai should've learned from Melee that throws with very little knockback, almost set such (or actually set such) can be abused for chaingrabbing, but did he remove those altogether? No.

There's also the possible 3rd option:
Laziness. The beta testers were actually somewhat competent (unthinkable, I know) and found a lot of these glitches, but Sakurai & Co were too lazy to correct them (or we could be back to the "They just didn't care" theory).

Yeah I agree I mean come on they discovered D3 Chain grab the first day the game was released in Japan stores. I'm not talking about on shelves I mean the version where you can only play a certain amount of chracters.

I wish I had the youtube vid but if I were to look up "D3 Chaingrab" now I'm sure I'll get everything but what I want. I remember this because the guy was doing it on PT in a Pink D3 custom.

Its unbelievable how they could miss that or not think of it when a simple gamer found it before it was actually released to the public. (seeing the MADE the game I mean)

Its things like that that make me want to go into the game making business but seeing I don't have what it takes to do so I'll just have to keep hoping that the next SSBB isn't so half done. (if I live that long)

I mean I love this game so I'll kee playing it of course but its annoying when you main two of the characters (Bowser and Ness) who suffer greatly from this.

I'll just have to work on my evasive game but playing against good players its still really no use.

 

[KosukeKGA]

Yeah I agree I mean come on they discovered D3 Chain grab the first day the game was released in Japan stores. I'm not talking about on shelves I mean the version where you can only play a certain amount of chracters.

I wish I had the youtube vid but if I were to look up "D3 Chaingrab" now I'm sure I'll get everything but what I want. I remember this because the guy was doing it on PT in a Pink D3 custom.

Its unbelievable how they could miss that or not think of it when a simple gamer found it before it was actually released to the public. (seeing the MADE the game I mean)

Its things like that that make me want to go into the game making business but seeing I don't have what it takes to do so I'll just have to keep hoping that the next SSBB isn't so half done. (if I live that long)

I mean I love this game so I'll kee playing it of course but its annoying when you main two of the characters (Bowser and Ness) who suffer greatly from this.

I'll just have to work on my evasive game but playing against good players its still really no use.

No.

There is a better solution. Play Melee.

 

[Pink Reaper]

I do find it slightly ironic that Melee, the game that so many people stated was a glitch fest that competitive players only liked because they had glitches to exploit actually has LESS glitches than Brawl.

 

[Yuna]

I do find it slightly ironic that Melee, the game that so many people stated was a glitch fest that competitive players only liked because they had glitches to exploit actually has LESS glitches than Brawl.

I next time I see someone whine about that, I'm going to post a thread slamming Brawl's glitchiness.

 

[House M.D.]

another possible explanation for lack of balance-->sakurai made the game balanced for FFAs, not for 1v1 or 2v2.

consider mk, who's clearly overpowered in 1v1 but lack of killing power (it's not that bad but still) would make him less effective, or ganon, who is more playable in 1v1.

 

[Cookiez]

1 tester given 1000 hours will find less than 1000 players given 1 hour.

 

[goodoldganon]

I was kind of excited to get involved in the Brawl competitive scene, but the overall glitchiness and infinites have turned me a way. There really is no denying it is a great party game. The characters are all way more balanced in a 4 person free for all. But that is what the game was designed to be. Sad, because Melee did a decent job of making a fun 4 player FFA and a great 1v1 fighter. Oh well, I still have 5 roommates who love playing Brawl, so I'll have plenty of of people to FFA it up with.

 

[Mike_Echoes]

1 tester given 1000 hours will find less than 1000 players given 1 hour.

QFT

I'm in the boat with D3 Infinite. But it's really not an infinite because of one thing. If D3 trips =/= infinite.

Marth's CG vs. Ness, prob a mistake.

I miss Wavedash

 

[AlexX]

Because they simply don't care. Brawl is one the most poorly beta tested fighting games in gaming history. In fact, it might be among one of the glitchiest games ever made, especially considering its budget.

Oh, please. It has its share of problems, but to call it "one of the glitchiest games ever made" is a gross exaggeration and you know it. There's plenty of games like Sonic Heroes that have far more glitches and various gameplay problems than Brawl. And that's if we ignore old NES games like Cheetahmen 2.

 

[Red Exodus]

The glitches are in the game because they were too busy trying to put tripping in the game.

 

[KhannKlan]

Instead of complaining about how grabs are unfair and cheap, you might as well improve your spacing and reduce chances of being grabbed. There will be exploits in every game, deal with them, and if you can't beat 'em, join 'em.

 

[Mr.Victory07]

1. Only Marth and PT( and to a farther extent DK) can infinite the chaingrab
2. DeDeDes chaingrab is not an infinite, you run out of space eventually
3. IC had an infinite in Melee too, and both are very hard to pull off( the chaingrabs might be even harder since its not a constant rythem)

 

[Mr.Victory07]

Because they simply don't care. Brawl is one the most poorly beta tested fighting games in gaming history. In fact, it might be among one of the glitchiest games ever made, especially considering its budget.

Either they didn't care and didn't do extensive beta testing or their beta testers sucked. A lot of the stages are still so bad most people I know, which includes non-Competitive ones, categorically refuse to play on them. The balance of items, Final Smashes and in some cases characters is laughable (I mean, come on, Yoshi? Ganondorf?).

It's obvious they either didn't care or did a really poor job. Sakurai should've learned from Melee that throws with very little knockback, almost set such (or actually set such) can be abused for chaingrabbing, but did he remove those altogether? No.

There's also the possible 3rd option:
Laziness. The beta testers were actually somewhat competent (unthinkable, I know) and found a lot of these glitches, but Sakurai & Co were too lazy to correct them (or we could be back to the "They just didn't care" theory).

You really hate Brawl dont you>.>
Did anyone think that some of these may have been on purpose(chaingrabs)
Or that they simply missed it. The Ness and Lucas thing took millions of gamers 3 months to find this, while the testers only had so much time to find it. And who would have even thought of somethingt like this happening, because its pretty far fetched
Edit: Sorry for double post

 

[leafgreen386]

You really hate Brawl dont you>.>
Did anyone think that some of these may have been on purpose(chaingrabs)
Or that they simply missed it. The Ness and Lucas thing took millions of gamers 3 months to find this, while the testers only had so much time to find it. And who would have even thought of somethingt like this happening, because its pretty far fetched
Edit: Sorry for double post

Actually it's been known for quite a bit longer that marth could infinite lucas (dunno about ness). It's just taken longer for people to figure out that other characters could take advantage of it, too.

 

[Pink Reaper]

1. Only Marth and PT( and to a farther extent DK) can infinite the chaingrab
2. DeDeDes chaingrab is not an infinite, you run out of space eventually
3. IC had an infinite in Melee too, and both are very hard to pull off( the chaingrabs might be even harder since its not a constant rythem)

DDD has an infinite chain grab on certain characters where he doesn't even have to move. Its just grab, throw, grab all in place.

 

[House M.D.]

everyone keeps saying "the game has so many glitches." i'm aware of a few but none are common enough to turn me away from the competitive scene.

note: infinite chain grabs are not glitches. they are errors in game balancing, but they don't abuse any game mechanics unintended to be in the game

don't be turned away from the competitive scene because of this stuff; if you can't adapt to the reality then you can't succeed.

 

[PK-ow!]

1) There is no way I can even imagine how to not have an IC infinite grab. The only 'solution' to that (assuming someone would want to remove it) would be to artificially gimp the IC's grab some other way.
Getting rid of Nana's grab just seems stupid to me. There's two of them - they should be able to hold you down and bang on you.

2) The original man's question was just how it's possible that development misses so much stuff. It's a valid question. No need to rag on him for apparently assigning negative normative judgments to such glitches.

We have the first answer - gamers can put in more man-hours on the week of release than testers can throughout the entire development period.

However it still occurs to me that checking for known weirdness of known types, such as *infinite* chain grabs, should be something that could easily be checked. As in, from a checklist. Which they should have by now. Dammit. ('infinite' emphasized so people don't #!$% straw man me).

All you have to do is take your game, set up your 35! character matchups, and try to infinite in each one with a grab. Jeez. Tedious, but not that hard.