I live in a very secluded part of Norcal with only a couple players close enough for me to play and they are around my level or worse. It almost feels like I get worse when I play them sometimes because I get away with so much bad stuff and then when I play a good player none of it works. I don't have any way to travel to good players here and I pretty much only play them at tournaments. I study and take notes on good players matches but its really hard for me to develop a good neutral game and find out what mistakes/bad habits I get punished for without someone playing with me to expose them. Does anyone have any advice on things I can do to get better without players that are better than me? Thanks for any help
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How do I improve without good players?
- Thread starter Berble
- Start date
- Joined
- Oct 5, 2008
- Messages
- 7,187
Play other fighting games online, particularly Smash 4 and Street Fighter. They'll teach you how to play the neutral game pretty well (how to predict, how to change your own strategies, and how to stay neutral so you'll be more capable of responding to things sooner). Or if you can play Melee online, go for it. It's as close to 1:1 as you can get to local Melee
Last edited:
kingPiano
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Feb 16, 2015
- Messages
- 574
Just work on stuff that you can master solo
(When I say CPUs you can sub in some of your friends, have them help train you by emulating certain scenarios/exchanges from high level matches you've seen.)
So....
Movement - this is a massive skill to be fluent in. Learn the stages like the back of your hand and be able to maneuver platforms and reach all points in the shortest possible time for the purpose of following up combos, landing quick KO moves, and for evasion/mindgames. If you were to spend just a solid year just mastering movement you'd be extremely hard to follow or predict by even high level players, movement is the most essential aspect of competitive play. Lay out a planned path for yourself where you navigate a stage like an obstacle course (add attacks and specials here and there) and record yourself and see where you can optimize. (i.e. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQNOD4cPTBo). You can even watch the top players tournament sets in slow mo and mimic exactly how they moved and attacked like shadow boxing.
Spacing and reaction - Play against CPUs like Mario/Doc, Ganon/Falcon, Peach, Zelda/Sheik and the Spacies. And just stand there and attack and evade only on reaction; nothing preemptive, and see how long you can go without taking damage Incorporate spot dodges, DD, and wavedashes. Try using only one move to 4 stock a CPU to learn the spacing of that certain move until it's muscle memory. When playing CPUs always keep in mind that they are not anything like humans so keep the mental awareness that you should ignore their habits, and you yourself should not expect those moves, recovery, or movement from a human. It's only practice concerning yourself, consider them on a casual level.
Mindgames - Develop different styles and attitudes of playing. Learn to cycle through them, the point is to never become predictable. Mang0 is a great example. From match to match and often within a match he will change his approach method many times, he overwhelms with options.
Become tricky with your movement, this can easily be practiced on CPUs when you dash at them then WD back for example they will go for an attack or grab, work on tricking the baiting the CPU into committing in neutral and on the ledge.
Punish game - Another very important aspect to the high level game you can practice against dumb CPUs (kinda). The most successful players take hits as far as they can, and they have the most damaging punishes laid out for every move in a MU. You can destroy a player just by waiting for them to throw out their laggiest moves and then punishing sufficiently. This is kind of the core of what wins and loses matches, but it's not often practiced or given thought by lower level players (they are often too worried about approaching and spamming tech skill). Look at frame data and learn the windows of end/start lag where you can capitalize.
Combos and MU knowledge- CPUs on lvl 4-5 and learn what combos work on diff. weights and fall speeds. Think about what attacks a competitive level Human would use against you and think about the danger zones of each character in relation to you. Reference the Master Hand DB or 20XX to figure out hitstun more in depth. It's wise to spend the most amount of time on the most played tournament characters.
Practice Powershielding, catching projectiles, nullifying projectiles (by hitting them, and learn what power of attack is needed for each)
.......................................................
(When I say CPUs you can sub in some of your friends, have them help train you by emulating certain scenarios/exchanges from high level matches you've seen.)
So....
Movement - this is a massive skill to be fluent in. Learn the stages like the back of your hand and be able to maneuver platforms and reach all points in the shortest possible time for the purpose of following up combos, landing quick KO moves, and for evasion/mindgames. If you were to spend just a solid year just mastering movement you'd be extremely hard to follow or predict by even high level players, movement is the most essential aspect of competitive play. Lay out a planned path for yourself where you navigate a stage like an obstacle course (add attacks and specials here and there) and record yourself and see where you can optimize. (i.e. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQNOD4cPTBo). You can even watch the top players tournament sets in slow mo and mimic exactly how they moved and attacked like shadow boxing.
Spacing and reaction - Play against CPUs like Mario/Doc, Ganon/Falcon, Peach, Zelda/Sheik and the Spacies. And just stand there and attack and evade only on reaction; nothing preemptive, and see how long you can go without taking damage Incorporate spot dodges, DD, and wavedashes. Try using only one move to 4 stock a CPU to learn the spacing of that certain move until it's muscle memory. When playing CPUs always keep in mind that they are not anything like humans so keep the mental awareness that you should ignore their habits, and you yourself should not expect those moves, recovery, or movement from a human. It's only practice concerning yourself, consider them on a casual level.
Mindgames - Develop different styles and attitudes of playing. Learn to cycle through them, the point is to never become predictable. Mang0 is a great example. From match to match and often within a match he will change his approach method many times, he overwhelms with options.
Become tricky with your movement, this can easily be practiced on CPUs when you dash at them then WD back for example they will go for an attack or grab, work on tricking the baiting the CPU into committing in neutral and on the ledge.
Punish game - Another very important aspect to the high level game you can practice against dumb CPUs (kinda). The most successful players take hits as far as they can, and they have the most damaging punishes laid out for every move in a MU. You can destroy a player just by waiting for them to throw out their laggiest moves and then punishing sufficiently. This is kind of the core of what wins and loses matches, but it's not often practiced or given thought by lower level players (they are often too worried about approaching and spamming tech skill). Look at frame data and learn the windows of end/start lag where you can capitalize.
Combos and MU knowledge- CPUs on lvl 4-5 and learn what combos work on diff. weights and fall speeds. Think about what attacks a competitive level Human would use against you and think about the danger zones of each character in relation to you. Reference the Master Hand DB or 20XX to figure out hitstun more in depth. It's wise to spend the most amount of time on the most played tournament characters.
Practice Powershielding, catching projectiles, nullifying projectiles (by hitting them, and learn what power of attack is needed for each)
.......................................................
Last edited:
Massive
Smash Champion
The harsh reality of this is, even though you can practice movement and spacing and tech skill by yourself, you will never really get much better without good people to play against. That may not be what you want to hear, but it's true.
If you really want to get good at melee, you should work on changing your circumstances so that you can play high-quality people more frequently.
If you really want to get good at melee, you should work on changing your circumstances so that you can play high-quality people more frequently.
D
Deleted member
Guest
Play lvl 9 Cpus and practice against them daily.
No please don't.
No please don't.
Y-L
Smash Champion
Yeah you should really check out netplay. Probably the best thing you can do for yourself.
shockage
Smash Rookie
i don't get much competitive experience either, and i don't like netplay because buffer lag, or just lag in general. i just practice tech, combos, playstyle, and movement alone or with bots. realistically, you'll only become better playing better people. you wont understand matchups or human playstyles if you dont play against actual competitive people. regardless, you can still practice technical skill with bots and become good with your character. i sucked at my first tournament because i had no competitive experience or matchup experience. after playing people, i realized what i needed to work on. just learning matchups against characters and to not play people like how i beat up bots lol.
i guess you kind of have to face the fact that you have to get competitive experience before you start to really understand how to play and become good. just from personal experience.
i guess you kind of have to face the fact that you have to get competitive experience before you start to really understand how to play and become good. just from personal experience.
Vorde
Smash Journeyman
Idk I created the smash scene here in Peterborough and now I have people who want to play so often, I don't have time.
Just reach out to people on facebook, make a group, post on smashboards in the section of your state, get involved
Just reach out to people on facebook, make a group, post on smashboards in the section of your state, get involved
vynleren
Smash Cadet
As lame as it sounds, watch top player streams and top 8 VODs from good tournaments. How effective this will be depends on what kind of learner you are; you might pick up interesting ideas about spacing from watching top players, or it might do nothing for you.
Personally I love watching top player VODs and trying to figure out how they handle certain situations. Then, try to implement it into my game, as well as I can.
Personally I love watching top player VODs and trying to figure out how they handle certain situations. Then, try to implement it into my game, as well as I can.