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How do I keep myself motivated?

Stijn

Smash Cadet
Joined
Sep 7, 2012
Messages
61
Location
the Netherlands
Hey Smashers,

I have been in this community for a year now. And I think I have made too less improvement. Sometimes I feel like I should stop just because I am not good enough. I can't do anything about the fact that I keep playing on the "Autopilot"and I always make the same mistakes. I really want to get better at Melee, but I know I won't reach top level. How do I keep myself motivated knowing this? And, maybe a better question, how do you keep yourself motivated to keep playing?
 

TheCatPhysician

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 10, 2005
Messages
976
Location
Cordova, Alaska
The best thing you can do is play people who are better than you, if you aren't already. Bonus points if you can record and watch matches against said people
 

Ezzee

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 26, 2013
Messages
187
Nobody can make you motivated, you have to do it yourself. You have to find something to drive you, be it winning, making money or just getting better. Personally, what keeps me going is my natural competitive nature and that I want to become nothing short of a world class Sheik player. You have to find the goal you want to reach personally, not what drives other people. The biggest thing though is that you have to want it. When you go to a tournament, you have to want to win more than anyone in the room, or else you'll fail and never reach your goal. To do this, you have to drop the mindset you have now, because it seems like you've excepted failure. Just find what motivates you, that's all you can do.
 

Stijn

Smash Cadet
Joined
Sep 7, 2012
Messages
61
Location
the Netherlands
Nobody can make you motivated, you have to do it yourself. You have to find something to drive you, be it winning, making money or just getting better. Personally, what keeps me going is my natural competitive nature and that I want to become nothing short of a world class Sheik player. You have to find the goal you want to reach personally, not what drives other people. The biggest thing though is that you have to want it. When you go to a tournament, you have to want to win more than anyone in the room, or else you'll fail and never reach your goal. To do this, you have to drop the mindset you have now, because it seems like you've excepted failure. Just find what motivates you, that's all you can do.
Like I said before, I really want to get better. But I like the idea of wamting to win more than anyone in the room. I'll keep this in mind, thanks.
 

Ziodyne

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 10, 2013
Messages
571
Location
UCLA
Do you practice by yourself? It seemed like your tech skill was kinda rough in some areas.
 

Bones0

Smash Legend
Joined
Aug 31, 2005
Messages
11,153
Location
Jarrettsville, MD
You need to set concrete goals. "Improve" and "play well" are not useful goals because when all is said and done, there's no objective way of determining if you accomplished your goal. You won't always be able to easily measure something as abstract as concentration, but if you limit your goal to something like "focus super hard on the first stock of every game", then at least you have a starting point you can expand on. It's better than mentally flailing during an entire smashfest and being upset at your inability to concentrate 100% of the time. Accept that you won't be able to focus perfectly on your first try, and work your way up to it. Make rules about what constitutes focus so you don't start johning for your bad habits.

As a Falco player, a big thing that makes me aware of my autopiloting is doing lasers directly into SHFFLed aerials. I know that I usually want to be DDing or shooting additional lasers in between my initial laser and eventual aerial approach, so when I see myself not doing something that I know to be optimal, I know I have failed in focusing. If you just list all your bad habits in a Notepad document and look at it while you play, you'll be a million times more likely to not do those things, and in-the-moment focus becomes second nature once you eliminate your autopilot habits.
 

Ziodyne

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 10, 2013
Messages
571
Location
UCLA
When you did nair -> shine, a lot of the times you got stuck in your shine.

I'm saying that your tech skill is not as good as it could be and working on making it cleaner could help you a lot cuz then you could play knowing that you won't make technical mistakes
 

Stijn

Smash Cadet
Joined
Sep 7, 2012
Messages
61
Location
the Netherlands
You need to set concrete goals. "Improve" and "play well" are not useful goals because when all is said and done, there's no objective way of determining if you accomplished your goal. You won't always be able to easily measure something as abstract as concentration, but if you limit your goal to something like "focus super hard on the first stock of every game", then at least you have a starting point you can expand on. It's better than mentally flailing during an entire smashfest and being upset at your inability to concentrate 100% of the time. Accept that you won't be able to focus perfectly on your first try, and work your way up to it. Make rules about what constitutes focus so you don't start johning for your bad habits.

As a Falco player, a big thing that makes me aware of my autopiloting is doing lasers directly into SHFFLed aerials. I know that I usually want to be DDing or shooting additional lasers in between my initial laser and eventual aerial approach, so when I see myself not doing something that I know to be optimal, I know I have failed in focusing. If you just list all your bad habits in a Notepad document and look at it while you play, you'll be a million times more likely to not do those things, and in-the-moment focus becomes second nature once you eliminate your autopilot habits.
These tips were really useful! I think I could just start with full concentration first stock then work it up. The notepad is probably something useful too.
 

Stijn

Smash Cadet
Joined
Sep 7, 2012
Messages
61
Location
the Netherlands
When you did nair -> shine, a lot of the times you got stuck in your shine.

I'm saying that your tech skill is not as good as it could be and working on making it cleaner could help you a lot cuz then you could play knowing that you won't make technical mistakes
I guess I was choking a bit, tech skill is usually the least of my problems. I feel lile my punish game and my habits get me in the most trouble.
 

Ezzee

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 26, 2013
Messages
187
Like I said before, I really want to get better. But I like the idea of wamting to win more than anyone in the room. I'll keep this in mind, thanks.
I know you want to get better, but you're holding yourself back by saying you're not good enough and can't get any better. If you truly believe that, it will happen.
 

♡ⓛⓞⓥⓔ♡

Anti-Illuminati
Joined
Jan 10, 2007
Messages
1,863
The fact is that if you want to get better at this game it takes hard work and dedication. Anyone can get better, the better players actually think about the game when they are not playing, different scenarios, situations, options, all that bull****. Can you have fun when you go trough all that? You know whether you have fun playing the game or not, winning and success are fun, losing and defeat are not
 

Naughty Pixel

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 12, 2010
Messages
168
Location
NH for college, MA for breaks
Set goals for yourself in matches if you want to break your autopilot. Winning is no longer your goal. Now you need to aim for reading their techs 10 times. Or you cannot approach, you must bait them into attacking you and dealing with it from there. Or you must not roll. Or can't shield grab. Set rules/limits for yourself to attempt to improve other aspects of your game. Try to figure out where exactly your shortcommings are, where your strengths are, and work from there.
 

Double Helix

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 23, 2012
Messages
432
Location
Southern Illinois
Another thing that could help is to just bring out the old buddies and just play free for all with items on. You can still use tech skill and you are still better than them, but sometimes just having old-school fun keeps the game alive and prevents it from being stale. I am not saying to do this a lot, or even often, but it does help to switch it up. Another important aspect is to not only focus on what you need to improve on, but what you improved on when you play. Going on auto pilot is just a result of not focusing on a goal, and it is hard to get better without a goal in mind. A recent goal I had was to shield less, because I got caught in it too much, so when I focused on other options, it improved (though it could still get better). But I really need to work on my spacing and neutral game more. Just an example from me, but I figured I would try to help. And holy crap you are better than I am XD
 

Stijn

Smash Cadet
Joined
Sep 7, 2012
Messages
61
Location
the Netherlands
The fact is that if you want to get better at this game it takes hard work and dedication. Anyone can get better, the better players actually think about the game when they are not playing, different scenarios, situations, options, all that bull****. Can you have fun when you go trough all that? You know whether you have fun playing the game or not, winning and success are fun, losing and defeat are not
I do actually think about this a lot when Im not playing, but I feel like I suck if you think about the amount I put into it.
 

Stijn

Smash Cadet
Joined
Sep 7, 2012
Messages
61
Location
the Netherlands
Set goals for yourself in matches if you want to break your autopilot. Winning is no longer your goal. Now you need to aim for reading their techs 10 times. Or you cannot approach, you must bait them into attacking you and dealing with it from there. Or you must not roll. Or can't shield grab. Set rules/limits for yourself to attempt to improve other aspects of your game. Try to figure out where exactly your shortcommings are, where your strengths are, and work from there.
I do understand your idea. But I feel like I should do this against players that are worse than I am, because I think I am not going to have the opportunity to read 10 techs :p
 

Stijn

Smash Cadet
Joined
Sep 7, 2012
Messages
61
Location
the Netherlands
Another thing that could help is to just bring out the old buddies and just play free for all with items on. You can still use tech skill and you are still better than them, but sometimes just having old-school fun keeps the game alive and prevents it from being stale. I am not saying to do this a lot, or even often, but it does help to switch it up. Another important aspect is to not only focus on what you need to improve on, but what you improved on when you play. Going on auto pilot is just a result of not focusing on a goal, and it is hard to get better without a goal in mind. A recent goal I had was to shield less, because I got caught in it too much, so when I focused on other options, it improved (though it could still get better). But I really need to work on my spacing and neutral game more. Just an example from me, but I figured I would try to help. And holy crap you are better than I am XD
I like this idea, haven't played my old friends in years. And thanks I really appreciate everyone's help :)
 

Zhea

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 10, 2012
Messages
962
Location
San Antonio Texas
First the #1 common factor in top level smashers is their determination to improve. We are not a very big community, our upper echelons are made out of people who got their through constant practice and study. We do have talented individuals as well, but "talented" players are not the only ones allowed into the top 8 at nationals club. The thing is, this is a fighting game who's meta has evolved over 10 years. If you local scene is older than a year, odds are that you won't be making bracket consistently in less than 2 years of time (Unless you pick some of the more forgiving characters).

You are having the same problem a lot of smasher's face at that point in time( and it won't stop there). You have spent more time and active effort getting better at this game, but your results don't reflect it. In the same amount of time you could be the high ranks in starcraft, or lol or dota with that kind of dedication. Even other fighting games such as SF 4 or MVC 3 would see you making bracket at least at locals and regionals. These games have more fresh blood for you to beat down than smash does, which inflates standing.

Think of it this way. When you are facing someone in pools who regularly makes bracket in an active, you are facing a younger games equivalent of a pro level player with probably 2 years or more competitive experience under their belt.

So I am going to put this bluntly. You are good enough if you can hold that motivation. If you can't, that's fine too, you are still better than 99.99999% percent of the world at playing smash. You'll whoop casual players. If that's not good enough then there is your motivation.

Sometimes you need to keep it fresh. Keep looking for new tech skill to learn, work on your platform movement(wavelanding rapidly to get around a level is actually a pretty fun and relaxing practice routine and will boost your movement by huge amounts). Learn a new character or play some Project M. Whatch top level matches or your favorite combo videos. And some times take a break and play some other games for a bit. You'll be jonesing for melee again soon enough.

On the matter of concentration you are not special. Lots of players struggle with this. Lot's of top players struggle with this. Playing this game and thinking about what your opponent has in store for you next is exhausting. Learning to think about this game while playing it takes more practice than any bit of tech skill you will ever pick up.

Also when you do think while playing, how much of it is about you instead of you opponent? If it's gravitating towards you and what you are doing or trying to do next then you are not comfortable enough with your character yet. Which isn't a bad thing if you have only been playing competitively for a year. Fully controlling your character takes longer the more technical you wish to become(And being technical is a good thing). Hell, it takes years for a fox player to have a good enough handle on him to actually start playing their opponent rather than just practicing tech skill on a human target.

Here is a little thought experiment. Pick shiek and only grab, tilt, shield and down smash during a match. Try thinking about what your opponent is going to do while playing like this. Focus on it. You'll probably lose, but I guarantee you will find thinking about this game a lot easier for that match. It takes a lot of real match experience to be so comfortable with your own toolset that you don't need to focus on it during a high pressure match.

Also the best way to keep the energy you need to focus is to have fun. Frustration will drain it away and you will get more frustrated as you lose focus. Which sucks, because many people (myself included) have a hard time detaching themselves when they are not doing well at something they are working very hard on improving. Learning to let go of that failure frustration is the hardest barrier to overcome. It will take a lot of active effort to avoid that line of thinking, but it's worth it.

Hope this helps
 
Joined
Oct 5, 2008
Messages
7,187
Just play the game. Don't worry about being bad. Even losing is fun in this game. Try to play to do different things. You could learn from your experiences. Experiment
 

AlcoholicSemenThrower

Smash Cadet
Joined
Aug 23, 2013
Messages
28
Location
Mount Vernon, NY
Dude... I have the same problem. I have been playing for about a year now, and sometimes i feel like i want to quit. LOL but as they say "No one quits Melee" which im starting to believe more and more everyday ._. but, do you play everyday? Maybe you should take a break for awhile. That's what i did. Then, after your break, you go to a smashfest or something and you'll get your drive back. But when i want to get my drive for Melee i watch "Ariqueenuubs" I think that's how you spell it. I haven't watched it in a while... But yeah watching combo videos is another way to get your drive back.
 

Stijn

Smash Cadet
Joined
Sep 7, 2012
Messages
61
Location
the Netherlands
Dude... I have the same problem. I have been playing for about a year now, and sometimes i feel like i want to quit. LOL but as they say "No one quits Melee" which im starting to believe more and more everyday ._. but, do you play everyday? Maybe you should take a break for awhile. That's what i did. Then, after your break, you go to a smashfest or something and you'll get your drive back. But when i want to get my drive for Melee i watch "Ariqueenuubs" I think that's how you spell it. I haven't watched it in a while... But yeah watching combo videos is another way to get your drive back.
I do play everyday, yes. I guess I could watch some more combo vids tho. I usually just watch matches.
 
Joined
Oct 5, 2008
Messages
7,187
I do play everyday, yes. I guess I could watch some more combo vids tho. I usually just watch matches.

Watch It Takes Guts to be AMAZING. I think it's a horribly made combo video, but I've heard a few Smashers tell me it's pretty good
 

Jim Morrison

Smash Authority
Joined
Aug 28, 2008
Messages
15,287
Location
The Netherlands
Je moet met meer verschillende mensen spelen Stijn. Zolang je met alleen mij of maybe Appie (en BBoyIndo?) speelt buiten toernooien ga je langzaam verbeteren. Speel met Ser, Jimmy, maybe wil Laurens, vraag Marc, vraag Remen etc. Iedereen staat wel open voor smash.
Je speelt pas een jaar, als je eens wist wat ik na 1 jaar deed... Je zit al goed dat je Fox kan en technisch ben, na 1 jaar had ik DK en Mewtwo gemained voor 6 toernooien en begon net met Fox en kon nog niet waveshinen. Na 2 jaar kon eindelijk een beetje slim spelen. Nu pas na 3 jaar begin ik serieus verbetering te zien in mezelf en meer dan alleen autopiloot.

Als je wilt stoppen met autopiloot is één van de meest concrete tips die ik je kan geven: Terwijl je speelt, herinner jezelf er aan dat je alleen moet reageren op EEN ding tegelijk, en niet proberen teveel te predicten of 2x dezelfde tech te raken. Ook moet je bedenken dat je 8 minuten hebt en even de tijd kan nemen om 1 seconde langer te wachten op je tegenstander en te reageren op wat hij dan doet. Als Falco boven jou in de lucht zit en naar beneden komt en je ontwijkt zijn D-air, sta eens een keer stil naast ipv gelijk proberen te punishen. Dan force je hem in zijn shield of roll etc. Het hoeft niet altijd beter te zijn maar het leert je om te wachten en met mix-ups te werken.

Oh en ontzettend belangrijk, zorg ervoor dat ALLES wat je doet een reden heeft. Als je een B-air doet en je denkt dat hij niet raakt of dat je zijn shield verkeerd raakt, doe hem dan niet. Als je dashdanced, zorg dan dat je weet WAAROM je het doet. Wil je dat hij springt? Wil je dat hij rent? Wil je dat hij shield? Zorg dat je voor al die opties iets klaar hebt.
 

♡ⓛⓞⓥⓔ♡

Anti-Illuminati
Joined
Jan 10, 2007
Messages
1,863
Je moet met meer verschillende mensen spelen Stijn. Zolang je met alleen mij of maybe Appie (en BBoyIndo?) speelt buiten toernooien ga je langzaam verbeteren. Speel met Ser, Jimmy, maybe wil Laurens, vraag Marc, vraag Remen etc. Iedereen staat wel open voor smash.
Je speelt pas een jaar, als je eens wist wat ik na 1 jaar deed... Je zit al goed dat je Fox kan en technisch ben, na 1 jaar had ik DK en Mewtwo gemained voor 6 toernooien en begon net met Fox en kon nog niet waveshinen. Na 2 jaar kon eindelijk een beetje slim spelen. Nu pas na 3 jaar begin ik serieus verbetering te zien in mezelf en meer dan alleen autopiloot.

Als je wilt stoppen met autopiloot is één van de meest concrete tips die ik je kan geven: Terwijl je speelt, herinner jezelf er aan dat je alleen moet reageren op EEN ding tegelijk, en niet proberen teveel te predicten of 2x dezelfde tech te raken. Ook moet je bedenken dat je 8 minuten hebt en even de tijd kan nemen om 1 seconde langer te wachten op je tegenstander en te reageren op wat hij dan doet. Als Falco boven jou in de lucht zit en naar beneden komt en je ontwijkt zijn D-air, sta eens een keer stil naast ipv gelijk proberen te punishen. Dan force je hem in zijn shield of roll etc. Het hoeft niet altijd beter te zijn maar het leert je om te wachten en met mix-ups te werken.

Oh en ontzettend belangrijk, zorg ervoor dat ALLES wat je doet een reden heeft. Als je een B-air doet en je denkt dat hij niet raakt of dat je zijn shield verkeerd raakt, doe hem dan niet. Als je dashdanced, zorg dan dat je weet WAAROM je het doet. Wil je dat hij springt? Wil je dat hij rent? Wil je dat hij shield? Zorg dat je voor al die opties iets klaar hebt.

I feel you man
 

ArcNatural

Banned ( ∫x, δx Points)
Joined
Jul 19, 2006
Messages
2,964
Location
Boston, MA
Just watching the first set of the video you linked. I feel like you're in a much better spot than you think.

I can see that your tech skill can be ok. But it clearly dropped off and got pretty bad as the set went on. You got stuck in shield repeatedly, you did standard fox autopilot moves even after missing your initial moves (doing thunders where they go the wrong way or they aren't even in front of you), missed a lot of l-cancels, especially on moves you expected to hit but you missed.

But the thing with these are. They are all things you can improve upon and I think quickly and effectively, especially with how much you say you play.

Just by looking at your play I have some questions:

Do you ever just practice doing moves into ANYTHING? Like have you practice shffl nair shine wavedash back turn around uptilt, turn around jab? Then do the same thing but do a shffl nair turn around uptilt, shine wavedash back? Then shffl nair to perfect dash back (no turn around animation)?

It really looks like your tech skill is set on fixed routines so you get stuck into stuff that you've mindlessly practiced for hours. My tech skill in general improved considerably when I actually started practicing variations of a lot of setups I was doing. A perfect example is I got really good at waveshining peach/falcon etc. But I really sucked at doing it in tourney play. I then realized I never practiced THE SETUP. I always would walk up and start waveshining or just shffl nair or drill waveshine. So my hands were really only used to doing those things in specific situations. When I started messing around with every variation i could think of to start the waveshine it was WAY better. Now it's like I can be shielding, wavedash out start waveshining, or fulljump drill waveshine, waveland into waveshining. You'd be surprised how much this makes a difference,and how much you don't even consider it a factor.

Really, one the biggest improvements in my tech skill game has been perfecting dashes out of shffls/wavedashes/grounded moves. I wish I bothered to practice that much earlier than I originally did.

You also really need to start having plans in effect for when things don't work out as planned, it will improve your reaction time and setups in general. There were a lot of times where you threw out a move where you had time to do something else (you essentially baited them but they weren't close enough to punish you perfectly) but you just either didn't expect to miss or didn't know what to do and they were able to punish you anyway.

I hope this gives you some ideas for motivation and new ways to try practicing to make your tech skill more consistent. And as always, try to treat friendlies as a way to learn things and try out new setups over trying to win. A lot of people get frustrated when trying different setups and just mindlessly go back into semi-trying to win mode and use the same tactics they've always used. Don't forget for a lot of setups/moves you need to know when not to use them as much as when you can use them. Can't really learn that without experience in trying them and finding out where they don't and do work for you.
 

S2rulL

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 28, 2012
Messages
393
Location
whatever
Instead of maybe worrying about getting better or worse, concentrate on playing the game and enjoying it. This is what I do whenever I consider quitting a game and it normally helps and you really don't mind losing as much, and just strive to improve through playing and having more fun from it.
 

JKJ

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 23, 2012
Messages
541
Location
New York
What I like to do to keep myself motivated and improve is to force myself to take on different playstyles for each match, or each stock. One stock I will play campy, and force them to approach, another I will play aggressive and risky. The next I will play a baiting game where I feint approaches and try to force my opponent to blink first. This helps me to learn advantages/disadvantages to each playstyle, and develop my ability to shift styles if needed midmatch or midstock.
 

PhantasyStar

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 1, 2012
Messages
142
Location
Merriwether Post Pavillion
NNID
Dyebre
3DS FC
1521-4107-6959
For me, as others have mentioned. As with yourself, i've only been in the community for about a year now (barely, I believe the first tournament I went to was in like March but whatever). And torwards the end of my summer I began to lose interest in Melee, I thought I would never be able to enjoy it as when I first started. I ended up going to an anime convention (Otakon to be exact) and it had melee. I ended up meeting great people who are now my friends along with some other smashers (and a few doubles matches with D1/Nintendude and other smashers I would watch), and remembered why I started playing Smash in the first place, it's fun (and apparently I was pretty good against the competition there). My suggestion is trying to host a tournament for free at a library or something. That way the reason people are playing is because they enjoy game, not for money or any other lame reason.

Side note: i'm loving the forum topics today.
 

Nicco

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 17, 2009
Messages
328
Yeah dude just enjoy the game! Never go full tourneyf4g. Play Falcon and sandbag the phuck out of all your matches, and you will have fun :)

It is the true way of the Falcon
 

Nicco

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 17, 2009
Messages
328
Weed + shadowclaw 1-4, then eggstinction 1 and 2. That's how you rediscover the joys of this game!
 

Marmalad3

Smash Cadet
Joined
Sep 22, 2013
Messages
29
Location
Vienna, VA
Even the most motivated of people need a break every now and again. Play some other games! Try out a new fighter. No one is making you play this game. If it's not fun to play you probably shouldn't force yourself to. If you give yourself some time, you'll remember why you got into Smash in the first place and you can try again. Nothing's final, you can always pick it up again.
 
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