How do you think Smash 3DS will do competitively when Smash Wii U comes out?

[Saikyoshi]

This topic has a high risk of turning inflammatory. Posts that attempt to incite or continue a nonconstructive argument will be reported on sight, and I encourage other users to do the same.
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We know the game's out now, so we know more information about it now. So now, I'm starting to worry.

People have already expressed concerns over issues such as the large blast zones, and – especially worrying – the recently discovered mechanic known as "vectoring" that renders landing combos, the return of which were expected to be this game's saving grace, a near-total impossibility. This is coupled with the fact that projectile and camping games turned out to not have been nearly as rebalanced as we thought, if the current effectiveness of , , and are any indication.

In short, there is reason for some players to believe that this game will die an eventual, painful death, just like its immediate predecessor, with the "safe" Melee once again being the only prominent competitive scene.

But that's just the pessimistic side. On the other hand, we know that the game was only just released, and since the game is more similar to Brawl than Melee, of course people are going to stick to the strategies effective in Brawl at first. There is still a chance that the metagame will evolve naturally into something with very long-lasting appeal, especially with the possibility of patches.

Discuss.

 

[Kevandre]

I think the fact that they've already patched the game is a good sign. I think that they're open to additional balancing. I think that Sakurai is aware that no matter how many testers you have, you won't know everything until the gamers have it. Japan is a good beta for this. I feel like there'll be another patch out fixing some more issues around if not before October 3rd.

This is some of the glory of the internet.

I've only played the demo and I am really enjoying it. I do have to agree that the Blast Zones are a little ridiculous and I think that'll probably be something that won't change. But glitches and character balancing, I'm thinking will be fixed via patch.

I do have to say. This game feels really clean. Melee and Brawl don't feel quite as polished in my mind.

 

[Raijinken]

I think it will be fine. Patches are possible, but even as-is, launch influence simply changes how combos must be executed, it does not remove them. And as the TourneyLocator matches have shown, the large blast zones are not a significant issue - they currently encourage more offstage play, which people seem to enjoy playing and watching.

Just my personal view, but I'm finding that I prefer this fresh (and rather different) form of Smash with the improved ledge game and more diverse character roster to be far more enjoyable than Melee, which thirteen years of play and watching has made very stale in my eyes.

 

[Renji64]

It is too early to tell. It seems like too much like brawl to me once the new factor wears off I hope it is still fun. I don't see it dieing it has online and alot of other good factors. There aren't much combos and you live forever. I like fast paced and quick games.

 

[Empyrean]

Just play the game for now, worrying too much about an imminent death will only accelerate the process. The game just came out, the new mechanics were just discovered and no big tournaments have happened yet. We haven't even scratched the surface of the game yet, and while people certainly can make conclusions about its future, we have no way of verifying them at this time. The game may indeed turn out super-campy, or it may turn out a lot more aggressive than we would have expected. And seeing as the game will surely have a lot of long-term support from Nintendo and a good online, I don't think it's going anywhere anytime soon.

 

[Octillus]

Melee wasn't built in a day or even 3 years.

 

[GunGunW]

I think it will for sure, it's gonna possibly be (it probably will be) the best in the series.

 

[MajinSweet]

I'm not really sure. From my point of view the game is a huge let down. So much of its content was carried over from Brawl. Some characters are almost entirely copied over whole sale. Rolls, spot dodging and shielding are still way to good. In fact, shielding is probably even better as shield stun is so small. Recovery has been buffed even more than it already was from Brawl. With large blast zones, anti edge hogging mechanic, and increased aerial movement. Then on top of that the game feels really janky. Lots of weird bugs and over sights. All of that might not matter with how much momentum smash has right now though. If some big e-sports companies throw some dollars behind the tournament scene, and Nintendo lets it happen or supports it, it will probably have a decent tournament life even if the game doesn't turn out all that great.

 

[Nocally]

It's still too early to say anything concrete, but I feel that the Portable version on the 3ds will keep it alive for a long time, maybe not competitively, but we will see.

 

[Shuriblur]

I believe it is too early to tell. I'm someone who is slowly getting into competitive so I have a tough time seeing certain things, but I can see that shielding is pretty good. When playing as Villager, I was finding that most my moves would get punished if they were shielded. Is it possible to poke shields without getting punished?

Anyways, is it possible the 3ds could be a testing ground for the Wii U version? Maybe some last minute adjustments could be made to blast zones and such on the Wii U based on responses from the 3DS?

 

[Xermo]

How about we give the game more than a week before concluding that the game is still Brawl level of campy.

 

[bloodbuzzed]

The metagame needs more than a week to develop and show us everything. This is like concluding a movie sucks after only the opening credits. There was a lot of effort put into this game and it seems like the developers took the fans opinion into the game in several respects. Combine that with the fact that the WiiU version isn't released for another few months and there are patches and it shouldn't be a problem.

 

[SmashBro99]

Melee is boring to watch (not because it's old, because the strategy to most of the matches is lame), this isn't, I hope it becomes huge.

You'll have to risk something to kill at low %s now.

 

[popo12]

It's definitely too early to say how healthy the game will be in the future. It's a lot different from the previous games. I felt like Brawl lost a lot of support fairly early on, but it was pretty clear at that point that a lot of depth and competitiveness had been removed from Melee. I don't see that with 4 yet. There are a lot of characters and moves that have yet to be explored, and it's unlikely the characters that seem the best now will remain that way. This game was also developed with competitive play in mind to some extent, unlike Brawl, while still being much different than Melee.

It's also worth mentioning that Brawl has lived for 8 years or so, which is pretty impressive for any game.

 

[Reila]

Well the game is far more enjoyable than that mess which was Melee and also Brawl, so I will play it for a loooooong time. That is what matters to me. Watching it could be fun too, as long as the meta game doesn't rely into stupid glitches and exploits like Melee's meta (unfortunately that I will most likely be the case, all with those Vectoring, Moonwalking and whatever exploits people are finding already). ^^''

 

[Sobreviviente]

For Glory, im sure it will success.

Melee was great but is not being played today for being better, is just because is melee

 

[Sleeplost]

You see the major issue is that the game's barely been out for a week and the only form of opinions that anybody really has are opinions given from competitive players who've stuck to a single playstyle for over a decade. When the NA and EU versions come out and opinions from average people drop then we'll be able to get a SLIGHT idea on the game's longevity.

And before someone says that we can trust the higher ups of the Smash Tourney community, remember when Olimar was bottom tier?
I do too.

 

[Ignoritus]

You see the major issue is that the game's barely been out for a week and the only form of opinions that anybody really has are opinions given from competitive players who've stuck to a single playstyle for over a decade. When the NA and EU versions come out and opinions from average people drop then we'll be able to get a SLIGHT idea on the game's longevity.

And before someone says that we can trust the higher ups of the Smash Tourney community, remember when Olimar was bottom tier?
I do too.

This. I don't follow the Smash competitive community like, at all, but this is a serious issue I've seen help kill the competitive field of another game that I think might be the case here. Where the top tier players can't handle change and immediately consider anything new or different as inferior and demand it be returned to the original.

 

[HoMaLoN]

Americans relax. The game isn't even out yet

 

[TTTTTsd]

The game's meta is so incredibly young. Jesus, look at Melee. Remember when people thought MARIO was top tier, and when Jigglypuff was bad?

Time is going to change a lot about this game, but it's also dependent on if this game's players try to invent a new playstyle with the game's different structure, which I am sure will happen as new players come into the scene.

 

[phanteon]

the new changes applied to smash bros and Nintendo's statement of stepping away from noobish players are clearly contradictory.
Although the game is faster, most advanced techniques were suppressed

 

[fearless.leader]

I for one, do not thing "being able to combo from 0% to 100% without there being the possibility of your opponent dodging" equates to a better more competitive game.

what I do care about is BALANCE. and from what I have played (I have been lucky enough to play the Japanese version)
this game takes that as a priority, not only that, but sakurai even provided us with the tools to balance the game ourselves with equipment and alternate move-sets should we feel otherwise.!

I just cant stand people bashing this games competative value before it is even released in america

 

[Tino]

Why are we even discussing all this when the game isn't even out for another 2 weeks?

 

[fearless.leader]

Why are we even discussing all this when the game isn't even out for another 2 weeks?

Because this is smashboards. and we are smashaddicts

 

[Ganreizu]

the new changes applied to smash bros and Nintendo's statement of stepping away from noobish players are clearly contradictory.
Although the game is faster, most advanced techniques were suppressed

I hope you realize making smash4 more accessible directly benefits the entire smash community as well as nintendo.

Making advanced techniques more intuitive is not a bad thing for any reason.

 

[KaZe_DaRKWIND]

I think its better than melee. Don't really care about what other people think. Will never see what people like about Melee.

I only view as possibly broken of the ones you listed.You can't take the few tournaments that are by the same people as a benchmark.

 

[HeavyLobster]

Brawl had tons of problems and it would still be going strong today if it had balance patches and decent online. Smash 4's pace isn't really slower at 3 stocks than Melee at 4/Brawl at 3, and while this game will have a good number of campy characters and matchups, it also has some good offensive characters as well. The different options made available by customization add a level of complexity that will make it very difficult to establish a concrete metagame. There's really zero evidence that this game will die out anytime soon, and it gets kind of annoying to see this Chicken Little attitude towards this game whenever a new mechanic is discovered, even when the arguments are contradictory. (VI ruins the game by making it harder to get kills, while rage mechanic ruins the game by making it easier to get kills) We finally have the game, so maybe we should just play it and let the chips fall where they may.

 

[Ryuutakeshi]

Oh joy, more paranoia.

The fact that the statements made in the OP contrast so heavily with many other statements made by other players shows that we cannot accept these views as facts, or anything close to that. These opinions are certainly not out of place, but they do seem a smidge premature, given how new our understanding of the game is.

 

[Aguki90]

This game right now, is like a baby, is newborn and developing new skill and technique of the game. Sometime we can break the meta game or learn new ability that was not supposed to be, in the game in the first place. But right now, we know we can have Patches and this is a good sign of future of balancing and the possibility of DLC.

The online is better and the focus of balancing of the developtment feel 4x stronger than any smash games, making the best of the series even we want Mewtwo, Wolf, Lucas or Ice Climber back or we want our dream newcomer. The game I have more hope to be balanced.

I'm gonna complain this too, but... The Blast zone are too BIG!

 

[fearless.leader]

This game right now, is like a baby, is newborn and developing new skill and technique of the game. Sometime we can break the meta game or learn new ability that was not supposed to be, in the game in the first place. But right now, we know we can have Patches and this is a good sign of future of balancing and the possibility of DLC.

The online is better and the focus of balancing of the developtment feel 4x stronger than any smash games, making the best of the series even we want Mewtwo, Wolf, Lucas or Ice Climber back or we want our dream newcomer. The game I have more hope to be balanced.

I'm gonna complain this too, but... The Blast zone are too BIG!

i agree, as for blast zones I feel that within the context of this new game they are appropriate.

 

[Kuragari]

This. I don't follow the Smash competitive community like, at all, but this is a serious issue I've seen help kill the competitive field of another game that I think might be the case here. Where the top tier players can't handle change and immediately consider anything new or different as inferior and demand it be returned to the original.

This is now I feel. I enjoy each new Smash release a great deal. Each one is bigger and better than the one before it.
You have to learn to adapt to the new game, or stay stuck playing the same game for 13 years.

 

[ChillySundance]

Testing in the vectoring thread have proven that it doesn't really affect low % combos much at all. let alone render them impossible.

 

[ZangooseQTR]

If brawl managed to live on way beyond it's years then this will sure do better with online play that actually works and frequent patching and maybe dlc, This could do better than melee if it catches wind really!

 

[Zero Suit Wario]

This is is like a parent yelling at a baby for being unsuccessful right after it's birthed

 

[Chakra-X]

I guess being overly eager for a game has an opposite effect for some people :/. A few theoretical mechanic changes and there are already whispers of a "short shelf life", which I think is completely preposterous.

I hope people have not forgotten that Brawl was designed from the core to be watered down, less competitive, and a more entry-level friendly title for the Wii demographic. The Anti-Melee. Not even released globally and people are trying to say that a game that was designed to be MORE competitive than its predecessor is taking a turn for a worse.

Also In terms of actual content, I am more than confident the Wii U version will have the capacity to support more stages, modes, and features. The 3DS I think was pushed very far and can only take so much.

I think it would be more healthy if people calmed down and stopped making wide predictions based off conjecture. You can have an opinion, even if it's negative, but jumping to conclusions helps nothing. I have been having a blast with the demo and how different it is from Brawl, but then people start making theoretical equations on knock back and suddenly the game is supposed to be less fun?

 

[[Obnoxshush/Dasshizer]]

Did Sakurai do enough ( Looks at roster) MMMMMM No. Game play and Characters are probably the most important things about smash. Now I haven't played the game yet so I can't comment on any game play mechanics. I think Sakurai didn't do enough for the character roster. We got some really cool and requested characters like Little Mac and Mega man and got some very questionable clones like Lucina and Pit's alternate palette swap from brawl. Some veterans are apparently cut and that turns off a lot of people. Hopefully Sakurai will rectify this mistake with DLC like he's been doing with the patches. As long as some good characters are there it will get me coming back to play as them over and over again. That's probably another reason people play the games over and over, game play and characters. Brawl didn't have as good game play as Melee, but why do people still play it, because of the cool characters that brawl has. If Sakurai can add in at least the missing first party veterans, He'll have done enough for the fans of those characters. What good is a smash bros game with good game play if can't play it using your favorite character. If Sakurai wants to deliver, DLC is his friend Game play and character wise.

 

[Tristan_win]

Here a solid fact, no matter how good or bad smash4 is the first year is going to be amazing. Sure things are looking pretty bad due to KI/VI being able to increase survivability of the top by 50% and possibly just as bad from the sides but even so watching the meta develop and mature is going to be wonderful. Your worried about characters like villager, rob, and DHD but as of right now they haven't demonstrated yet that they can completely shut down a rush in character from breaking their defenses. Sheik and little mac so far have demonstrated they can break though and I'm sure other will follow.

The other thing worth noting is so far there's no meta knight and ice climbers, I think one of the main reasons Brawl was a competitive flop was due to meta knight just being the overwhelming the best to the point you couldn't make a reasonable argument as to why not to main him. Although I HATE the idea of everyone living normally around 150% if the fights are fairly balance smash4 can still be a good competitive game.

 

[Moldy Clay]

The game is barely a week old.
Calling combos the game's "saving grace" implies that it was doomed before it even started for no reason.
The effectiveness of Villager, ROB & Duck Hunt in the span of a WEEK is not indicative of how the metagame is.
HOOOOOONOOOOOOO VECTORING.

The Blast Zone thing is the -only- valid complaint right now.

We're literally going off of the opinions of a small group of people that imported over the span of a week.

The idea of jumping to conclusions and have paranoia right now is just embarrassing.

 

[RascalTheCharizard]

Ultimately a game's competitive lifespan is as big as its player base (that's not to say that spectators don't matter at all, but they're not the ones running and entering tournaments, are they?).

Vectoring also affects survivability, something which people already were annoyed with. Just thought I'd point that out.

Anyway, I think Smash 4 has a good lifespan ahead of it. Like many have said, Brawl lasted at least 5 years and that game revolved around one character and had arguably broken elements that even Sakurai decided to fix *coughchaingrabscough*. Not to mention the better online in Smash 4 will give players who, like myself, don't live near the tournament scene(s) more reason to keep playing.

I get what you're saying about defensiveness, though. I also find it curious how so many returning characters had their projectiles nerfed in some way (usually lowered damage) and yet we got so many campy newcomers like Villager, Megaman, Rosalina, Dunk Hunt, Palutena and so on. That said, based on what I've seen the game as a whole leans neither offensively nor defensively; it's very character and matchup dependant. Even if the game DID end up being "defensive" and/or "slow" that will not be what kills it. Smash 4's lifespan is decided by the players, if it dies it will be because we found something else we'd rather play like Melee, as always.

Man I hate it when my posts start off good and turn into a tangent by the end.

 

[Prince Lolz]

My only thing is.. I guess actually seeing the game killed my hype. Before it was so tabuu(no joke intended) and mysterious, and now that we can actually see it... Its kinda the same :/
Don't get me wrong this looks like another amazing smash game. But what I was expecting was an incredible masterpiece.