How does Dair work?

[Miryafa]

I was practicing this the other night, but I can't figure it out. I see a top hitbox and a bottom hitbox, but neither seem to cause the meteor. When I hit em high, it's weak, and when I hit em low, it's still weak. I checked the frame data, but I can't understand that either.

If someone could explain to me how to read the frame data, I'd greatly appreciate it.

Same for how to get the meteor consistently.

 

[G13_Flux]

theres actually 3 hitboxes. one top, one bottom, and then one small one that is centered within the bottom one. in order to land the meteor consistently, you have to realize that the small sweetspot is only out for one frame, while the other two are out for 4 frames. you need to try and space the hit such that zelda connects with her shins. this way, when the hitbox comes out, you will be likely to connect with that tiny sweetspot. if you look at the slow motion .gif in te frame data thread you can briefly see that tiny sweetspot come out for one frame. if you look below the .gifs, you will a table with four rows, labeled with hitbox IDs 0-3. these hitbox ID numbers correspond to an individual hitbox bubble, each of which can contain their own base KB, KB growth, angle, damage values, etc. the ones labeled 0 and 1 correspond to the sweetspot (one for aerial, and one for grounded opponents). you can see the duration is only on frame 14, and the hitbox size is much smaller than the ones labeled 2 and 3 (the sourspots). the BKB and KBG are also much higher for 0 and 1 than compared to 2 and 3, being and indicator of the powerful sweetspot.

 

[Kaeldiar]

^ That.

Also, just for the sake of being thorough, all of the hitboxes are meteors, but the larger hitboxes are just very weak meteors.

 

[Miryafa]

Great, thank you!

 

[Angell]

How does Dair work?

It doesn't.



Honestly, never use it, it's horrible. It's one of the hardest meteors in the game to land, and IF you land it a good player will meteor cancel it if they aren't above 80. And if they will die to dair, they will also die to a kick. There is almost no use for this move, and this WASTE of a dair makes her even easier to juggle.

I am for a total move rework here.

 

[Downdraft]

It doesn't.



Honestly, never use it, it's horrible. It's one of the hardest meteors in the game to land, and IF you land it a good player will meteor cancel it if they aren't above 80. And if they will die to dair, they will also die to a kick. There is almost no use for this move, and this WASTE of a dair makes her even easier to juggle.

I am for a total move rework here.

While it's a move that Zelda should use sparingly, it isn't terrible. You can use Din's to set up meteor heel then grab the ledge and hog the ledge with Farore's Wind. Furthermore, opponents wouldn't expect the move if you used against a grounded opponent. At mid percents, an unexpected meteor heel can set up a nice combo. At high percents, the move kills. You are right that lightning kick is a better option than meteor heel; however, lightning kicks require the opponent to be your side, and opponents are more wary of them. To me the only great downfall to meteor heel is that it gets beaten by many attacks, so Zelda needs to know which moves she actually can beat or trade with like Donkey Kong's Up-Air. Also, connecting meteor heel on an aerial opponent has the most gratifying sound effect—the same sound effect that the Brawl sweetspot (and Project M super sweetspot) had.

 

[Angell]

1.While it's a move that Zelda should use sparingly, it isn't terrible.
2.You can use Din's to set up meteor heel then grab the ledge and hog the ledge with Farore's Wind.
3.Furthermore, opponents wouldn't expect the move if you used against a grounded opponent. At mid percents, an unexpected meteor heel can set up a nice combo. At high percents, the move kills. You are right that lightning kick is a better option than meteor heel; however, lightning kicks require the opponent to be your side, and opponents are more wary of them.
4.To me the only great downfall to meteor heel is that it gets beaten by many attacks, so Zelda needs to know which moves she actually can beat or trade with like Donkey Kong's Up-Air.
5.Also, connecting meteor heel on an aerial opponent has the most gratifying sound effect—the same sound effect that the Brawl sweetspot (and Project M super sweetspot) had.

1. You are right it isn't terrible, aweful is a better adjective
2. Just kick them
3. Agree, but Usmash and Nair do these much better
4. Agree (except for the word only)
5. Yep

 

[G13_Flux]

It doesn't.



Honestly, never use it, it's horrible. It's one of the hardest meteors in the game to land, and IF you land it a good player will meteor cancel it if they aren't above 80. And if they will die to dair, they will also die to a kick. There is almost no use for this move, and this WASTE of a dair makes her even easier to juggle.

I am for a total move rework here.

there are very few people who are going to be able to consistently live from meteor cancelling the sweetspot. maybe if youre M2 or DDD at 50%, sure, but most characters wont have the vertical recovery to be able to still live.

also, have you ever tried tech chasing with it on a platform? its your strongest vertical KO option by a decent margin, and very rewarding to make contact with, over the ledge, or on the stage. if anything needs to be reworked, id say its dtilt.

 

[BlackMamba]

lol, this move isn't at all useless, it's just situational. Sweetspotted, it's easily one of the strongest meteors in the game. Even meteor canceled, most opponents who get hit with it offstage won't live, as previously stated. Also as previously stated, on a grounded opponent it kills really early off the top, and can be a combo starter at lower percents. Plus if you mix it up and land behind your opponent, a dair does a frightening amount of shield damage. Three break a full shield. Especially in doubles (say your partner is pressuring an opponent from the opposite side) shield breaks with this move are quite possible.
As for dtilt, it has about three times as many uses as dair. It's just that, like pretty much all her grounded attacks, it's really unsafe on shield which is irritating. That's .really my main issue with her moveset. If her f-tilt maybe did less shield damage (it also does a lot) and had more shield stun, for instance, I'd be super happy. Cuz ftilt, downtilt, dash attack, and jab (except for/sometimes even at max range) are all awful on shield.

 

[Downdraft]

lol, this move isn't at all useless, it's just situational. Sweetspotted, it's easily one of the strongest meteors in the game. Even meteor canceled, most opponent who get hit with it offstage won't live, as previously stated. Also as previously stated, on a grounded opponent it kills really early off the top, and can be a combo starter at lower percents. Plus if you mix it up and land behind your opponent, a dair does a frightening amount of shield damage. Three break a full shield. Especially in doubles (say your partner is pressuring an opponent from the opposite side) shield breaks with this move are quite possible.
As for dtilt, it has about three times as many uses as dair. It's just that, like pretty much all her grounded attacks, it's really safe on shield which is irritating. That's .really my main issue with her moveset. If her f-tilt maybe did less shield damage (it also does a lot) and had more shield stun, for instance, I'd be super happy. Cuz ftilt, downtilt, dash attack, and jab (except for/sometimes even at max range) are all awful on shield.

Do you mean unsafe?

 

[BlackMamba]

Do you mean unsafe?

LOL whoops yeah that's what I meant