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how does one get better with noone to play agaist?

ElloEddy

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 11, 2012
Messages
323
Location
$led- NYC the beast-coast
i been trying to get better but ...how can i do it if i barley get to play anyone...

cause tech skill ain **** if you cant put it to good use


like seriously a high level player that trains me from time to time can just beat me walking around and doing foward smashes n tilts with falco
 

Arcadia157

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 19, 2012
Messages
245
Location
Richmond, VA
When I had to go for a few months of no one to play against over this past summer, what I did was brush up as much as possible with my tech skill and watch a ton of videos and streams. It's true that you can't really get better without real people to play against, but when you finally do, all the solo practice will let you improve faster then if you didn't have it.

But that's just what's worked for me.
 

Myztek

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 20, 2005
Messages
936
Location
Southaven, Mississippi
Work on perfecting your accuracy (you can view hit percentage in the stat list after a game). I feel like this helps prevent swinging without purpose.

And be able to control your character as flawlessly as possible. The biggest difference, when it comes to fighting humans, is that you're playing against their strategy. So, when you watch videos try to figure out why the players are using the moves they're using and pay attention to the strategies and tactics they use.
 

Zodiac

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 10, 2005
Messages
3,557
I won't lie man, It's pretty difficult to make the same progress alone as you would with people to play against, the best thing you can do is watch video's and stream as stated above and practice whatever combo's they do on cpu's (Level 5's work the best in terms of DI). Also there are things you can practice without having a another person to practice with, spacing is a pretty big area you should be practicing, trust me that helps a lot. Another good thing to practice is ledge shenanigans, going through the motions of different edgeguards you have seen or make up. Or recovery shenanigan's I.E. Link's bomb jump. And you could also practice teching and DI via the car's on onett.

Also if you just have a random friend who is willing to help you can ask them to help you by doing simple things. Such as di'ing right and left as you practice a chain grab (You say "when I throw you up just hold left or right randomly to help my reaction time") Or practice tech chasing with them..which is a bit more difficult but still not at all hard for anyone experienced in gaming. ( you say "Alright when I throw you down just press R and hold a direction right before you hit the ground.") I did this with my brother and it actually really helped my tech chasing and chain throwing game with fox and sheik.

And your second option is to get in on SSBM netplay on dolphin, theres a whole thread for that, if you have a powerful enough computer and a good internet connection you could use that, since I started using it I have had at least 5 more people to play with on a regular basis. We have a skype group as well, if you wan't in you can Pm me about it.
 

Myztek

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 20, 2005
Messages
936
Location
Southaven, Mississippi
It's probably worth mentioning that you should get really comfortable going off stage. Test your limits to see how far off the stage you can go with different moves, or without moves, because you're gonna have to be just as comfortable fighting off stage as you are on stage to get critical edgeguards and gimps.

Also test everything you can do from the ledge, like the guy above me just said. Ledgehopping and ledgedropping.
 

S l o X

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 17, 2009
Messages
2,838
Location
bridgeport, ct
the way you get good at this game is by getting your driver's license
he lives in nyc he doesnt even need a license to play other people

just play more / think about the game more / watch more. i guarantee you aren't doing any of those things as much as you think you are. im lucky i've had people to scoop me up whenever they wanna play melee. no license does suck when you dont live in the city.
 

Lovage

Smash Hero
Joined
Apr 15, 2007
Messages
6,746
Location
STANKONIA CA
I got my drivers license, but I need an airplane to play anybody decent->good (ala shoyo & friends)
that really is quite bummer

man up and drive however long it takes to play ANYONE (there has to be somebody on ur island)

and also practice tech skill

but most importantly show melee to ur friends lol...it still definitely is a game where you can get a lot better just beating on noobs
 

Svetsunov

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 4, 2012
Messages
159
Location
Cupertino, CA
I'm still an amateur, but I always smash around a Level 1 marth usually focusing on my movement and playing around with offstage stuff. For the most part my edge game and mobility are showing signs of improvement (and don't just spam FD).

Once in a while i'll play on kongo jungle and waveland my way around the stage.

It's not much, but being able to stay comfortable with the game is a nice touch.
 

Archangel

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 4, 2008
Messages
6,453
Location
Wilmington, Delaware
NNID
combat22386
Practice the most trivial things over and over all day every day. Do something simple like L-cancel and try to get them 9 of 10 attempts or 90 of 100.

then there are specific extreme practice measures you can take. I for example when I was learning Marth practiced SHDF(Short hop double fair) in lightning melee as to make it easier to for me to use in normal speed.

Example here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMO-sYUPIqk
 

ElloEddy

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 11, 2012
Messages
323
Location
$led- NYC the beast-coast
see i live in nyc/li

from what ive seen newer players in nyc rarely get a chance to practice with the higher level it seem.

but there are alot of top players that help us out .

ive been practicing tech skill alot and all that movement , but that's not the issue its the basics of competitive melee i have to work on which is what you learn from playing the at higher level.

i don't wanna end up all robotic and stuck with limited ability to adapt because i dont play anyone cause its happening already and i dont like it lol
 
Joined
Apr 29, 2012
Messages
4
I totally understand that mentality, but it's still on you to develop a play style and a sense of adaptivity. Becoming a robot is just engraining the wrong habits into your head. Learn to analyze and correct them. The ultimate goal is to be able to correct yourself mid match and clutch it out even in a bad situation. To me, that's the real difference between a good player and a great one, PP was talking about it on the stream last night (mango wasn't taking GF seriously at all LOL). Practicing by yourself is never a bad thing, and if you can put yourself on a good training regiment then it will minimize bad habits.

I do agree that too much alone practice creates repetitive habits. My brother, who only plays when other people play, plays an entirely counter style. As in, he will play counter to whatever you are doing, every time. If you play aggressive, he'll play campy, if you try to camp him he'll wait for a stupid approach. He approaches the game from an entirely mind game and psych out perspective, and there's something to be said for forming your habits around what either is effective or upsets other people to the point of it messing with their game. The problem with adaptive players is that it is entirely up to you to either execute better than them or to call them out on their ****, and that becomes increasingly difficult the better your opponents are.

Everyone should practice by themselves at some point. There is too much pressure when versing other people to get all of your technical stuff down correctly in matches. There is a certain point when you are engraining the patterns of your practicing into your play style, but it's nothing that isn't correctable.

To cope with this, I usually play several characters each solo practice session, and I try to verse one floaty, one fast faller, and one mid weight to really get a feel for how to combo each one. Also, I frequently vary the cpu level because DI varies with level IE 1 doesnt DI, 3 has decent di (supposedly human like), 5 dis in (I think), and 7 dis in HARD, so it's good to switch it up.

Adaptability is largely a learned habit. The best way to cultivate it alone is to just vary what npc/level you are versing, to never get too comfortable with your npc combos. You should constantly be trying new things. New approaches, new combos, new ledge guards, new OOS stuff. The second you can do a combo consistantly, move on. See how you can cover different recovery options against different cpus (spacy npcs are good for this). Record yourself playing matches with others when you can to analyze mistakes and bad approaches/ zoning flaws/ weak reactions/ tech flubs. One good match against an evenly matched opponent will clearly indicate where your competitive game is lacking.

Think about faking approach. This is something pp mentioned a while ago. If you take a level 7 npc, and you see how close you can dash dance in and out of it's range before they attack, you can practice one of the fundamental aspects of competitive melee, zoning and faking approach. If you get really good at looking like you are going to approach, it forces other people to doubt their intuitions, and then you can start picking them apart and forcing them to play more honestly. This HUGELY ups your competitive game, as even the best players do stupid things to intellegent fake outs (Mango vs. armada in genesis 2010 is a good example) If you need examples of good zoning, look at PP, M2K, Mango, hbox, and pretty much anyone who plays competitive smash at a high enough level to make it to semis lol.

Shield pressure. When you first start playing other competitive players, you are probably going to get shield grabbed alot. Or wavedash OOS f smashed, or usmash OOSed. All of this comes down to needing to learn what constitutes good and bad shield pressure. If someone does not respect your approach, they assume you are going to flub the timing/ spacing on a shield stab. You have to learn the safe ways to approach someone who is shielding, and learn to anticipate their OOS game based on previous occurrences. If someone has grabbed you OOS 10 times, they are going to keep trying it, and it's up to you to start punishing/ spacing your pressure better. Ideally, any shield pressure that results in either a grab/ a hit/ or an intentionally elicited reaction (that you anticipated) is a good thing. IE shield pressure peach right up until you think she will up b and then backing up.

While there is no real way to practice shield pressure against npc's, you can use practice mode and invincibility star items to get the timing of shield pressure down. I've found that this can be incredibly helpful for l cancel timing. Watch videos of shield pressure to see what is more effective than other things.

That's about all I've got in terms of practicing alone... The last thing I can think of is having a good punish game, and that really comes down to understanding what ability to punish another player your character has, and what constitutes a good punish. Common punishes are for whiffed attacks (aka not zoning, you literally just missed), sloppy/risky shield pressure, knee jerk reactions to fake approaches/ DDing, or just poor DI in general. Melee is largely a game about conditioning... You condition your opponent to anticipate something, and they either adapt or they don't. That's essentially the gist of it.

Oh yeah I live around NYC if you want to play lol. I'm up at school now but I'll be back down in around a month
 
Joined
Oct 5, 2008
Messages
7,187
Practicing alone is the boringest thing ever

I use this device to improve finger strength. In my experience, I think it helped me a little

I haven't gotten this into habit yet, but maybe playing solitaire memory and meditation might help the mind
 

_wzrd

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 19, 2009
Messages
438
Location
Waikoloa, Hawaii
that really is quite bummer

man up and drive however long it takes to play ANYONE (there has to be somebody on ur island)

and also practice tech skill

but most importantly show melee to ur friends lol...it still definitely is a game where you can get a lot better just beating on noobs
naw your right, theres this nooby icie main that i can beat up on & a ok falco 2hrs away, but he's kinda flaky haha.
i used to practice tech a lot, but took a break after my last trip to play the other guys lmao, semi-official #4 in ****ty kamaster/tophless hawaii.
 

Lovage

Smash Hero
Joined
Apr 15, 2007
Messages
6,746
Location
STANKONIA CA
practicing alone is only boring if you suck

there's tons of fun and interesting **** you can do with just 1 player if you put your brain to it
 

Life

Smash Hero
Joined
Jul 19, 2010
Messages
5,264
Location
Grieving No Longer
More under "general gaming" than Smash, but I use the iphone game Super Hexagon as a means of calming down and focusing. The game punishes you relentlessly for being distracted or otherwise imprecise. Watch a video sometime.
I'm at 29:38 on Hyper Hexagonest.
 

Myztek

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 20, 2005
Messages
936
Location
Southaven, Mississippi
More under "general gaming" than Smash, but I use the iphone game Super Hexagon as a means of calming down and focusing. The game punishes you relentlessly for being distracted or otherwise imprecise. Watch a video sometime.
I'm at 29:38 on Hyper Hexagonest.
That game looks pretty awesome! Thanks for mentioning it.
 

ElloEddy

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 11, 2012
Messages
323
Location
$led- NYC the beast-coast
Main Falco
lol falco and a couple other characters shall be my strong secondary

even if play/win better falco and other higher tier characters imma still use ylink and hope to get smart enough where i can win often using him cause i have beat top tiers characters with ylink ..also put up a decent fight against higher level players using him
 
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