How exactly DOES one punish rollers?

[Diquad]

So look.

I'm hella-bad at fighting rollers.

More specific, I'm bad at fighting small, quick rollers. People like Toon Link, Olimar, and Sheik are just giving me the run around. I can poop lemons till the cows come home, and best case scenario I poke 4-5% in before they take off to the other side of the stage. At worst, they dodge roll past me and then Megaman does that awkward "turning to look at you" thing when you've fired your third pellet.

But I digress, I'm only partially stupid. I like to think that for every tactic, there is a counter tactic. So to the internet to look up "what do". And hey, looks like there's actually information relevant to my issue. That's great, wonderful even. It's like having a coach without sacrificing self-worth!

Except for the fact that reading and understanding something is a whole lot different compared to actually applying it to something else. And that half of what I'm reading probably isn't very Megaman applicable, considering he seems to have a unique look on combat.

To the point:

I'm reading lots of "When roller rolls, punish with this or that." But I think that's people assuming that people are literally doing nothing but rolling as a sort of troll thing; Where as I'm facing Sheiks who will gladly put more needles in your face the moment they know they are out of buster distance and can block a metal blade or crash bomb; waiting for me to get wise and try to jump at them where they will proceed to kick me many times. I'm seeing Samus' who will physically go from one edge of the stage to the other, and if I so much as try to catch them, I'm facing some upward kicks or a tasty...whatever her upsmash is...

Even when I'm tricky enough to actually land behind the opponent, most of Megaman's hard hitting attacks take too long to catch someone point blank, and I have to pretty much ask them to stand still after a roll in order to punish with Dsmashs or rely on them touching my megabody for Usmashes. Even trying to catch them with a Fsmash while they're rolling away is pretty futile I feel, as they just roll away again out of the short uncharged range or, at worst, see me charging and fire another arrow/needles/rocket/etc.

I've got about one or two smart grabs like this, and then they start throwing spot dodging in the mix. They could practically add me as a battle in Monster Hunter, what with how many dodges I see. I genuinely have no idea what to do for spot dodge other than wait, but we're further compounding the "which-way-did-he-go" syndrome I'm experiencing by adding yet another way they get away from me.

Now it's not to say I can't hit these people. I can sit right back with them and, for the most part harrass them with projectiles myself; maybe even catch a whiff of a metal blade or even catch them up with more pellets as I said earlier. The issue comes down to catching and killing these people. I feel like every thing I do, from approaching with Bairs to dtilts, to trying to catch them up at their own game, outright fails and I end up rising to 120% before I can manage to land the pellet that screws up their flow or something and lets me close the stock.

I guess what I'm asking is, whats the secret? Do I really sit for 5 minutes every time I see someone spamming rolls and B->B-repeat till they're at 200%? Is there some godly technique to catch these people off guard and not show off all your tricks trying to do so? Am I just getting read like 1st grade english? I have literally gone from 5 matches the victor, to getting completely curbstomped over and over when people start doing this, and it is frustrating because any other time I can read them and react somewhat, but this is just too much for me, I guess.

TL;DR: Can't catch rollers, they hurt me when I try. Only lemons and BS work, then I just get damage. How Do Kill?

 

[Z1GMA]

Mega Man doesn't have any top notch-moves for punishing rollers. You'll just have to try and predict the rolls and Dash Grab or in some cases Dash Attack. (Up Smash as well, but be careful. Don't wiff it!)

As for the kill. If they really roll that much, and you feel it's gonna work - go for a well-timed Down smash.

 

[Locke 06]

most of Megaman's hard hitting attacks take too long to catch someone point blank,

Mega Upper would like to have a word with you.

But seriously. If someone is rolling towards you, and you can read it correctly, turn around and give them the up tilt.

 

[ChopperDave]

Leaf Shield.

Not a joke. In my experience it's the best move for punishing rolls.

Use the "short hop" technique (i.e. hold diagonal down, jump->B) to get it out safely, then run/roll/jump where they're going.

The leaves will hitstun them between rolls, giving you an opportunity to safely grab, pummel, and throw. Oftentimes that's enough to get them off stage and/or up in the air, where they can't roll and where MegaMan excels.

Sometimes I also just roll alongside them, letting the leaves damage them the whole way. If you time it right, you can dsmash them after the last leaf hits or the Leaf Shield dissipates for an easy kill.

 

[Sleek Media]

Megaman has quite a few tools to punish excessive rolling.

If you want to attack but stay safe, dTilt effectively acts as an attacking roll with no downside when played against another roll (worst case scenario, you roll past each other). Alternatively, if you feel unsafe while they are rolling toward you, you can just slide away. You might catch them with the sweet spot as the move begins, too.

If they are rolling towards you, uTilt is your earliest KO move, though you'll need to time and space it very well.

If they are rolling but too far away to actually attack you out of the roll, throw a metal blade or crash bomb, or set up leaf shield. Metal blade and crash bomb will punish a roll back, and leaf shield will punish a roll forward and set up a grab.

If the spacing is a little off, and you are confident they are rolling into you, go for dSmash.

If you think they will roll away, you can also catch them coming out of the roll with an uncharged Mega Buster.

 

[CelestialMarauder~]

Well with megaman you can't really punish a roll hard unless you expected them to try rolling behind you. If you called that, thats a free uptilt lmao. If they roll away from you, go for a dash attack or a metal blade. It's been working for me. Also, skidding to a dtilt deserves a mention because dtilt is a damn good move that i'm trying to figure out how to use more

 

[Korpocalypse]

if you can time a Dsmash's initial ground hitbox perfectly at 100+ it'll kill. If you can time a run-to-where-their-roll-ends and upsmash at 120+ it'll kill. If you and completely read their next roll and land an utilt it'll kill at 85. Personally I like to just play completely reactively and grab alot when they roll alot.
Also you can run tripleshot ftilts on a rolling away enemy if you're close enough to disrupt. If they're greater than 1 roll length away, sometimes an uncharged fsmash can catch them rolling towards you.
I think the key most of all is to keep them at max range of lemons and play completely reactively; be ready to shield or grab between each set of lemons and always watch what they're doing so you can catch rolls early.

 

[Kiyosuki]

Yeah this is another one of those uses for Leaf Shield that most haven't realized yet.

If I can frustrate someone going roll crazy enough with lemons and metal blade spacing, I can often catch them with a D-Smash. I've sorta come to see it as the moves' primary purpose really.

 

[Drascin]

I have been finding some success with dtilts against some characters with long rolls rolling through me to escape. If you are very confident of your timing you can make that a utilt, but dtilt is being more reliable for me as a way to get some poke in and chase - and sometimes the unexpectedness makes them roll back again on instinct the moment the hitstun is over, which means you might get just enough distance for another dtilt again or even a dash attack in, or throw out a metal blade or bomb to get them out of roll. Granted, I am a fairly mediocre player and this has mostly been tested online, and the lag makes people play differently, so take everything I say with a grain of salt.

 

[uncaDon]

Timing when punishing rolls with dtilt is quite tight, either you screw them over or you just get shieldgrabbed.

 

[Abortion Doc]

I lick my chops whenever I run into a chronic roller in any match. Because Mega Man builds damage so superbly I know that all I need is one good read at mid-high percentages to put them in a poor position and end their stock. Against rollers there is one very simple technique which will turn the tide immensely if you practice it enough: Learn to cancel your buster shots with backwards shorthops.

If you practice this technique, you will be able to space out possible rolls behind you, limiting your opponent's options to retreating, taking to the air where you can punish their landing, or charging headlong into 6% of basically free, safe damage. Push your range, throw in a metal blade here and there, and choke their space. Remember that Mega Man has the luxury of not having to approach against most characters.

There is another characteristic I have observed about chronic rollers: They roll most when they are uncomfortable. So make them uncomfortable by keeping them at arm's length with your lemons and metal blades, don't let rolling behind you become the backbone of their strategy. Most importantly don't chase them! Chronic rollers love it when you try to rush them down because they can just wait for you and punish your ending lag. Be patient and observe their patterns. All players have poor habits and rolling too much is a big one.

There are tons of specific strategies I can offer you on this subject but overall I'd just recommend that you take time to OBSERVE your opponent and what causes them to roll. If you can get good at recognizing the situations that make your opponents roll, you can take the next step to formulate a plan to handle it.

 

[fromundaman]

The previous post is great advice.

Also keep in mind that as Megaman you are playing for damage and capitalizing on opportunities; most of your stocks will not end early. On the flip side, Megaman also never dies.

Other options:

If you think someone's rolling backwards/away from you:
-Dash Grab
-Dash Attack
-Forward tilt
-Forward Smash (Also punishes spot dodge and is safe on block)
-Dtilt (At some ranges; kind of risky since it can get shield grabbed if mistimed)
-Crash bomb (I really like this option as it will probably force another, much more predictable roll)
-Metal Blade


If you think someone's rolling forward/into you:
-Pivot grab (I really like this option since it's safe even if you guessed wrong and the grab hitbox on the pivot grab is active forever)
-Bair (Useful if you tried to chase the backwards roll with Ftilt then jump canceled it on reaction to seeing a forward roll)
-Pivot Fsmash (Basically run past where they are going and turn around with a Fsmash. Also punishes spot dodge.)
-Utilt (Risky since it can be hella punished if mistimed, but the best way to capitalize off of a roll when an opponent is in kill %)
-Dsmash (Only for the hardest of reads. This move is hella unsafe if you read wrong, but will kill early if you guessed right)
-Pivot Ftilt (Not a great option, but it works. I do it when I mess up a pivot grab/pivot Dsmash)
-Usmash (Better than Dsmash, but don't misjudge the roll range or you are wide open)

 

[Drascin]

Timing when punishing rolls with dtilt is quite tight, either you screw them over or you just get shieldgrabbed.

Hmmm, that is a good point. Lag making people a bit slower to react and shield might be what is making me able to dtilt with such impunity, because I swear it's working more often than not. I probably shouldn't get into the habit just in case.

 

[Fenrir VII]

So Mega Man has less-than-excellent on-reaction roll punishes (I think he does fine with it, but he doesn't have the tools in this regard that some other chars do), but he is EXCELLENT at forcing opponents to roll, which means rolls are easier to predict, which means they are easier to punish.

a situation I keep getting into.. My opponent gets pushed into the corner (because Mega Man's mid-range zoning is better than a very large % of the cast, so he dominates the center-stage play in general). I approach the opponent gradually with a mix of pellets, fairs/bairs, fsmashes (sometimes for mixups/shield damage), and metal blades (I like crash bombs from farther away). At this point, the opponent is in the corner, can't (usually) counterattack because I'm out of their range... so they shield. They can either jump and eat one of Mega's aerials/landing punishes, rush me with a dash attack (which usually gets eaten by pellets), or roll. This is an amazing trap situation, and a large part of the reason that I think MM might be a REALLY good char in this game.

On paper, roll is the strongest move in this situation because most people can't punish them, so they get positively reinforced that rolling is ok. So it generally works out that they try to shield, realize they're in a bad spot, then input a roll. I am ALWAYS trying to space for their roll length, so the goal is to be directly behind them after their roll. If you predict a roll and are ready for it, you can on-reaction punish it with usmash, dsmash, or utilt, which are all high-damage kill moves.
Usmash is the least spacing/timing sensitive of these... and is a great juggler at low %, so it's my move of choice for all situations that aren't them being at lowish kill %.

The most important part of this situation, imo, is not being too close... gotta keep the spacing so they can't roll behind you (although dsmash still works) and can't counterattack you.