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How is Wolf's performance in the elements of Brawl?

DRaGZ

Smash Champion
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Okay first off, please read this:

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=199108

Second of all, the reason I am posting this here is because I have a summary of Wolf's performance in the elements of Brawl, but it may not be accurate. So, I was wondering if you guys could do it, considering how you guys are the authorities on your own character.

Use this thread to discuss it, and then please post your results in the "Element of Brawl" thread linked above, using this format:

ZONING
  • On the ground
  • In the air
  • Off-stage

SPACING
  • Extreme long distance
  • Long distance
  • Medium distance
  • Short distance

KILLING
  • Killing power
  • Gimping potential

Thanks a bunch.
 

~ Gheb ~

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ZONING

On the ground -> Above average; Ftilt, dtilt and jabs have good range and ae quite fast (4)
In the air -> Amazing; Bair has about the same range as Marths fair but is even faster; Wolfs mobility in the air takes care of the rest (5)
Off-stage -> Average; He has bair and mobility but only blaster is risk free (2)

-> 11 Points

SPACING

Extreme long distance -> Bearable; Reflector covers camping from any distance. He lacks options though (2)
Long Distance -> Bearable; Again, he has only one move but a good one: Blaster (2)
Medium distance -> Comfortable; Arguably Wolfs preferred distance: fsmash, blaster, ftilt, dtilt all cover this range (3)
Short distance -> Bearable; All moves are usable in short range but are less effective; Shine and Grabs are his best options (2)

-> 9 points

KILLING
Killing power -> Above Average; His dsmash is epic but he lacks a good replacement. Fair and utilt work only to light opponents; A fresh dsmash is fast and reliable (4)
Gimping potential -> Below Average; His blaster works against few opponents and anything else is risky (2)

-> 6 points

Overall: 26 points.

However this doesn't take certain facts into account like Wolf being comboed very easily
 

Toby.

Smash Master
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ZONING

In the air -> Amazing; Bair has about the same range as Marths fair but is even faster; Wolfs mobility in the air takes care of the rest (5)
Off-stage -> Average; He has bair and mobility but only blaster is risk free (2)
Amazing in the air is pretty optimistic. That puts him in the same bracket as Meta Knight and Game and Watch, who both have absolutely incredible tools. Bair is really great, but not that great :ohwell:

Off-Stage also includes recovering. Unless wolf has above average edge guarding, he probably doesn't deserve to be average here.
 

~ Gheb ~

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What? Zoning off the dage =/= recovery

Also his aerial zoning is pretty amazing. You can easily tell that if a characters spacing is 90% based on aerials alone - and it's good zoning. No character can pressure Wolf off the stage just like that (Ok, MK can do it but he can pwn everything
 

Toby.

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[*]Off-stage, which includes things like edge-guarding, either on or off the stage, recovering, and anything that includes the ledge
I think you'll find that it includes recovering. His aerial zoning is great, really. He has a very fluid style which lends itself nicely to zoning. That having been said, its not amazing. Metaknight is amazing. Game and Watch is amazing. I don't see how wolf's bair is on the same level as the turtle/fishbowl/key/fair :ohwell:

The lack of disjointed hitboxes makes it hard for him to be as threatening.
 

homicidalrapist

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 10, 2008
Messages
105
ZONING

* On the ground-above average; has good tilts and smashes, although not as good as Snake's or ROB.

* In the air-average; he does have fast aerials, but they don't have much reach except Bair. You can't base this whole category off of 1 move.

* Off-stage-below average; for God's sake stay on stage. Dair almost never works, Bair is predictable
and the reflector puts you at the same position as your opponent which means you'll probably get gimped if you're not within Wolf Flash's reach.

SPACING

* Extreme long distance- Bearable; You can just hide in the reflector, but try to get closer.

* Long distance- Comfortable; Can use blaster at this distance and reflect what comes your way.

* Medium distance- Comfortable; Has a lot of long reach attacks on the ground and the Blaster. This is where you wanna be.

* Short distance- Bearable; His throws are decent, not many effective moves at this distance.


KILLING

* Killing power- below average; Only has Dsmash as a reliable killing move. His other killing moves are Bair and Usmash, which are better off as damage builders.

* Gimping potential- Terrible; WTF? Stay on the ****in' stage ******.

Overall-23
 

ArcPoint

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# Wolf

* On the ground: Wolf's greatest strengths are here. Wolf needs to rack up damage for KOs and this is the place. Wolf's lazor and shield grab help tremendously for controlling approaches and AAtilts help to keep smashes fresh. FSmash doesnt outprioritize much but it helps to close gaps on characters with greater range. Rating: Above Average
* In the air: WoW. Wall of Wolf is an antiquated, outdated method of approach. Bair is still an excellent move and is great for keeping air happy opponents at bay. It is important in any matchup to control the air but like ROB and Ganondorf more often than not with wolf you are merely sending the opponent away. The reflector can set up dsmash KOs if it catches low arial opponent. Nair and Uair are situational moves useful vs specific character matchups. Rating: Average
* Off-stage: Get Back! Wolf's fall speed and minute upB sweetspot do not give wolf much time over the edge. Dair has terrible startup AND ending lag. Avoid those SDs by only bairing over the edge and sideB to return. Many Characters (DDD, MK, ROB, Falco CG, Pit arrow) can earn a early KO. The distance and speed of the wolf flash are the saving grace here. Rating: Below Average
I honestly believe you have the air and ground game switched. Ground game is not Wolf's forte, there are only two "safe" options he can do on the ground, well, kinda 3. Ftilt is not safe on block, Utilt is not safe on block, Usmash is not safe on block, Fsmash is not safe on block. Dsmash and Dtilt are the only things I believe (As I'm not entirely sure these are completely safe) and Dsmash should be used for killing =/ Dtilt is decent, but it has crap damage, no IASA frames for a frametrap, and most of the top tiers have an option to punish a blocked Dtilt. The third "Sort of" safe option is the blaster, if you're within range of any of their attacks, and you blaster, hit a shield, you will eat an attack. However if you space right and are at a decent range, you won't be punished for a blaster. Oh, and I forgot about jabs, those are usually safe, they're not actually safe, but usually people wait for the entire thing to go through, when you can just cancel it, and if they predict that, then you go through with the whole 3 hits... etc etc. I'd rate his ground game average at best, his Fsmash is NOT Godly, nor is his blaster, this is a common generalization -.-

In the air, before I say anything else, I have to get this over with: WOLF'S AERIAL GAME IS NOT JUST THE WALL OF WOLF, BELIEVE IT OR NOT HE HAS MORE OPTIONS THAN JUST BAIR.

I believe this is where Wolf excels, retreating Fair is nearly unpunishable, it is a VERY safe move, and sets up the perfect distance for a safe blaster shot. And his Bair, is nearly unpunishable as well when spaced right, I think the only person that can actually shieldgrab a well spaced Bair is D3. Then you have the option of feinting Bairs (As in, doing a Bair but spaced so that it doesn't hit them, but you're still out of range of most of their attacks) and taking advantage of their usual attempt at punishment, as well as Bair's little landing lag, you can usually do a Fsmash or a blaster depending on your spacing. The hitboxes in front of, and behind Wolf are definitely a force to be reckoned with, however, he doesn't do all too exceptionally well with the hiboxes above and below him. The hitboxes above him are decent (Uair) however it's probably best to shine or airdodge when the opponent is above him, this kinda limits him. But when the opponent is below Wolf, it's all shine or airdodge, Dair is CRAP for a hitbox below Wolf, laggy (Upon landing) and heavy on the start up time. Also, his aerial mobility *****, that is all. My rating for this would be above average, if he had a better Nair, better Dair, and Better Uair, I'd give him amazing, however, his Nair is crap, his Dair is crap (For uses on the stage) , and his Uair is decent.

Off-stage...meh, I'm sure you guys all know the deal here. He has a crap recovery, so he can't edgeguard very far.... blah blah blah. No, he can't go TOO far, however, he can still go OFFSTAGE. His edgeguarding options aren't as horrible as people make them out to be, granted, he can't gimp as well (Assuming the opponent DIs up when hit by Bair, if the opponent doesn't DI... then bye bye stock) His Bair as aforementioned is a decent edgeguard, if the opponent is smart, like at higher level of play, then he'll probably DI it, and all you get is an extra 10%, and a reset position. And his spike... his spike is amazing, assuming you can hit, but when you do, well, it's a spike, it usually results in a loss of stock (Except against ROB). Now, people say "He can easily be edgehogged when coming back after a failed edgeguard attemp". To this I say: Yes, he can be, if the player doesn't space Wolf properly, you can't go "too" far, you have to stay the right distance so that if you use Wolf flash, and the opponent has the invincibility from hanging on the ledge, you will go THROUGH them, and back onto the stage, nice safe and sound, plus you get to set up for ledge pressuring. And if they don't have invincibility... well, stage spike =) Overall rating of his off stage game is... average I'd say, he has options, he can get back to the stage safely when played intelligently. However he is rather limited on how far he can go.

Meh, I don't feel like going too in-depth for the spacing.

Extreme long distance - Bearable, he has reflector, but can't really retaliate... just defend.
Long distance - Comfortable, definitely better, blasters hit them, he still has his reflector.
Medium distance - Comfortable, blaster hits, he has the option of feinting crap, he has options, like Fsmash, Boost Smash, etc.
Short distance - I personally think he's comfortable here, his Dthrow is very nice, his pressure game is EXCELLENT, you can just spam lagless and safe attacks and be relatively...safe. A good Wolf should be able to work with little room, what with Fsmash, Reflector, Bair, and Fair. If absolute need be he can make room for himself, so I think he's comfortable in this department.

Not too much to discuss here...

Killing power - Dsmash, Dsmash, and more Dsmash, I'd rate this above average, as he really doesn't have any other options other than Dsmash... but it's fast, and it kills at early percents when Fresh.

Gimping potential - as explained before, he has options, just not too great for gimping. Below average.




Score: 26. I like Wolf.
 

DRaGZ

Smash Champion
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Okay, obviously the summary I've put up of Wolf is incorrect. It's not a summary I wrote, but I agreed with it and put it up, thus it's also a reflection of my lack of understanding of Wolf's metagame.

So thanks for clearing that up.
 

Ishiey

Mother Wolf
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ZONING (11/15)
On the ground -> around average, maybe above average if you have amazing spacing with ftilt. Not too many safe options though, as ArcPoint said.
In the air -> above average, while it's not crazy good this is wolf's comfort zone for sure.
Off-stage -> average I suppose, as long as you make sure you can still recover going offstage is viable against most characters.

SPACING (9/12)
Extreme long distance -> bearable, because of reflector, but you can't do much back yourself.
Long Distance -> bearable/comfortable, blaster can pester opponents but it's not the fastest of projectiles. Still good for keeping your opponent at bay, just nothing amazing.
Medium distance -> comfortable, this is where wolf likes to be.
Short distance -> because of all those chaingrabs, uncomfortable/bearable. Grabs are decent and the shine helps out a lot, you have a lot of options, but it's just too risky against some characters.

KILLING (about 6/10)
Killing power -> average, maybe above average, dsmash is really all you need. You have other kill options when you're desperate, but your dsmash will certainly get the job done.
Gimping potential -> below average, but not by much. Gimping is still possible, just a lot riskier than it should be.

26/37. That's about 70%. This is a good idea, but there still seems to be some stuff missing (I'm not sure what though). 26 seems to be the general consensus though.
 

~ Gheb ~

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Ishys summary is better than mine. Take this one Dragz. It's the best one
 

Ishiey

Mother Wolf
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Lol the funny thing is, my summary started with me copying your post for the outline. Thanks for the compliment though.
 

DRaGZ

Smash Champion
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Okay, I will put up Wolf's around Thursday, I'm currently busy as balls right now (I shouldn't even be typing this right now, but I am stupid).
 

Ishiey

Mother Wolf
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I see that you've added survivablility to the list of elements, so I might as well give some input on it.

RECOVERY
Intermediate. Seriously, his recoveries have good distance, and if you position yourself properly and can aim, getting hogged shouldn't really be much of an issue with either. The only problem is that they're both linear, so a well prepared opponent can take advantage of that by attempting to interrupt your recovery somehow, and then things start looking bad. There's also the blaster to help out your recovery a little, along with illusion cancelling, but they aren't anything ridiculously amazing.

STAYING POWER
Wolf is a fast faller and one of the heavier characters in brawl, so he's fairly difficult to outright kill. He has reflector to take care of dodging/countering and avoiding projectiles, which works as long as you avoid being too predictable. Retreating fair is good defensively, and there's obviously the blaster when you're at a distance. You can also space bair for a while, since it's hard to punish unless you mess up. As you mentioned, there is a good deal of cooldown on some of his moves, but I'd still put Wolf at easy, maybe easy/intermediate if I'm being partially biast as a wolf main.

That's 5.5/6, plus the 26/37 from before, would be 31.5/43, but let's go with 31/43 because I'm probably a little bit biast. Anyone else have thoughts on survivability?
 

~ Gheb ~

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Since gimping is part of the off stage department, I'd say his recovery is intermediate. His SideB can cover angles few characters can make it back from.

Staying poser is good. It's hard to ceiling KO him and side KOs only work well with gimps...
 

Sesshomuronay

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Wolfs recovery is definately below average and it can take a bit of work to get used to it. I think its intermediate as theres scarring, semi scarring, cancels and all this stuff you can do with it to maximise your recovery options.
 

Shady Penguin

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Wolf is definitely comfortable at long distance. You can't really get much better than having a good projectile and reflector.

There are few characters that are better than Wolf at this distance.

As for his air game, I'd say above average. He has some great moves (fair and bair), but you won't see him murdering people like MK and G&W up there.
 
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