How much of a strength or weakness is a character's weight?

[Brinzy]

I don't have a massive post to go along with my own opinion or anything because I really don't have a solid opinion on it, so I'm looking for facts. We all know that the lighter you are, the earlier you will be sent off to a blastzone 100% of the time (barring anything that may obstruct that, such as a move that is powerful enough to send you in another direction). We also know that weight is not directly correlated to floatiness (see: Samus vs. Fox).

So, the question: is a characters' weight a solid strength or weakness that can be pretty much linear for every character in the game, or is it less of a weakness if a lighter character can compensate for it (or less of a strength if a heavier character can't compensate as well for it)? It sounds like a "both" answer, but that is why I am asking you all.

 

[gm jack]

I suppose if all other things were the same, being heavy has to be a good thing, as it prevents deaths at earlier percentages. On the other hand, it can lead to you getting comboed around the stage early on, negating some of this requirement for more damage to die.

However, a single mistake from a light character against a powerful one can mean death.

In this game, both very light and pretty heavy characters are up there in the top tiers and the bottom, so I doubt there is a strong need to play a light or a heavy character.

 

[Biinii]

I consider being heavy is better than being light. With correct DI you can escape from most combos(or at least, a good percentage of them) and late game you got a nice advantage. Also, if you search for character guides:
- Light -> con
- Heavy -> pro

 

[Johnny Pteran]

Let's just say that, if MK was heavy, he would probably be banned.

 

[CaliburChamp]

The character's recovery is actually more important than weight. For example, Ganon is heavy, but with his bad recovery he still dies at low % from edge guard gimps making his heavy weight somewhat negated. Now if it's a heavy character with a good recovery like King Dedede or Snake, they will survive very long. Having heavy weight + good recovery makes the character good and having heavy weight + bad recovery makes it pointless to be heavy if you can't recover and live long.

 

[Chileno4Live]

Let's just say that, if MK was heavy, he would probably be banned.

This and if he had a spike

 

[Alus]

Just like fastfalling...

bulk is both a blessing and a curse...well... if you that floatiness is a part of weight...

The character's recovery is actually more important than weight. For example, Ganon is heavy, but with his bad recovery he still dies at low % from edge guard gimps making his heavy weight somewhat negated. Now if it's a heavy character with a good recovery like King Dedede or Snake, they will survive very long. Having heavy weight + good recovery makes the character good and having heavy weight + bad recovery makes it pointless to be heavy if you can't recover and live long.

Snake has a good recovery? Really?

 

[smashkng]

Snake has a bad recovery, Snake is open for spikes, grabs, chomps or edge guarding during his up b.

G&W is like heavy because of Oil Panic knockback brake.

 

[kingcobra9]

snake is a great heavy character because he is till fast(not extremely but decent) and can recover. a bad heavy is bowser because he is still really slow with minimal recovery.

Light characters all have the same idea that they are easier to get knocked off but often have considerably better recovery. so that is wy you want some sort of medium to avoid the disadvantages or gain certain things.

 

[CaliburChamp]

Just like fastfalling...

bulk is both a blessing and a curse...well... if you that floatiness is a part of weight...



Snake has a good recovery? Really?

Snake's recovery cover's a lot of space, and Snake can always use C4 recovery as a plan B. Double jump and using Up+B gives snake a speed boost going upwards. It's easier to gimp Bowser and DK more so than it is to gimp Snake, simply because Snake has choices in his recovery options, he can air dodge out of up+B after 1 full second, he has no flinch super armor from attacks that do 6% or less. So for a heavy character, Snake doesn't have such a bad recovery.

 

[Frown]

Snake has the C4 if he fails to recover.

 

[Brinzy]

Let's just say that, if MK was heavy, he would probably be banned.

Most likely, since he'd be a heavy with ridiculous recovery. If he were heavy with Ivysaur's, maybe not, but... yeah.

 

[Matador]

From my understanding, being heavy is purely an advantage. The only thing it really affects is how early you can be KO'd. There aren't any negative aspects to go with it.

Wario is a heavy but has insane aerial movement. Jiggz is light but with insane aerial movement. The only difference is that they're on opposite sides of the weight spectrum so they are both amazing in the air but one dies much quicker. If weight also affected fallspeed or aerial movement, then that'd be a different story.

From what I can tell though, being heavy has no downside.

 

[smashkng]

Even though being heavy leaves more vulnerable to chain grabs, it's still better be heavy than light. Jiggly actually has a poor horizontal air release and high vertical release still leaves vulnerable to certain attacks.

A combo that works on light but not heavy characters is G&W's dsmash after a dthrow. This is one of the few combos where lightweights are more vulnerable than heavyweights.

 

[Mr.Victory07]

Being heavy is a 100% advantage. You live longer, and thats the whole point of the game, right?

Whats negative about being heavy is that youre usually big also. Being big is NOT an advantage, but a pretty big disadvantage of which the only good thing I can think of is you might have long range. If a character was as small as MK, but as heavy as DK, along with MK's great recovery, they'd be broken.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Being heavy is a 100% advantage. You live longer, and thats the whole point of the game, right?

Whats negative about being heavy is that youre usually big also. Being big is NOT an advantage, but a pretty big disadvantage of which the only good thing I can think of is you might have long range. If a character was as small as MK, but as heavy as DK, along with MK's great recovery, they'd be broken.

I dunno, MK has great DI and can live to ridiculous percents.

 

[Nefarious B]

Only thing I can see that is good about being "big" is being tall, you have the grab release advantage. Other than that, short and heavy is great, especially if they aren't slow as **** either, and have good recovery... yes wario is my secondary.

Ya I'd take heavy every time, the only true disadvantage is that lightweights don't get DDD CGed.

Really the more important thing to look at is a character's lifespan after DI is in play though, since I know DDD is actually the heaviest character in the game if you factor in his DI and momentum canceling aerial.

 

[Project D]

only in the right hands, if the player can't DI that well, then his lightweight would be his downfall

 

[Cherry64]

Samus DI's like a god. She's heavy as can be but stays alive and is supa floaty, thus making her seem light.
all the advantages of being light but also the advantages of being heavy :D

yet she still sucks lol

 

[Kamikaze*]

Let's just say that, if MK was heavy, he would probably be banned.

lol, what he said.

 

[B!squick]

MK has something better than a spike though. It's called getting you off stage and keeping you there until you die. x_x

M2K certainly makes Meta Knight ban worthy. I don't think I've ever seen him die earlier than 150%.

Anyway, most combos in this game are just psuedo-combos as 95% or more of them are escapeable. Granted, even 1 frame of freedom makes for escapability and I'm pretty sure humans can't react as fast as 1/60th of a second, but still, the 10 frames of buffering this game gives you helps offset that. So I would have to say that being heavier is more helpful than being lighter.

 

[Red Arremer]

Whats negative about being heavy is that youre usually big also.

Although some of the big characters are heavy, not all heavy characters are big. Wario, Yoshi, Snake, Link and Wolf are some examples I can name for heavy characters who tend to be smaller.

On the other hand, it can lead to you getting comboed around the stage early on, negating some of this requirement for more damage to die.

Fall Speed =/= Weight

Or why do you think that the space animals are so easily comboed? The fall speed has to do with that. Heavy characters usually have high fall speed, however, there are heavy characters like Wario or Samus, who are heavy yet aren't comboed easily because of their floatiness.

 

[B!squick]

Indeed, but generally, more weight = less knockback = better combo'd.

 

[Red Arremer]

So Wario is easily comboed? That's news to me, to be honest.

 

[smashkng]

Being light is worse than being heavy, Brawl is a game designed to not have combos. Being tall a light is a poor combination, it includes Falco, Fox, Zamus, Zelda and some others. I think it's better to be large but able to get many hits before die than small but few hits are killing.

 

[Kitamerby]

Although some of the big characters are heavy, not all heavy characters are big. Wario, Yoshi, Snake, Link and Wolf are some examples I can name for heavy characters who tend to be smaller.

Snake, is NOT small. Look at his effing legs.


Also, Mewtwo was big and light. He was also among the worst characters in Melee. It's not a coincidence.

 

[Throwback]

Don't forget that all attacks have 2 parts to their knockback - set knockback and knockback that grows. The heavier a character is, the more set knockback they take (presumably to offset being very easy to combo).

The property of weight is always an advantage - size and fall speed confer their own advantages/disadvantages.

 

[Red Arremer]

Snake, is NOT small. Look at his effing legs.


Also, Mewtwo was big and light. He was also among the worst characters in Melee. It's not a coincidence.

Snake is, compared to Dedede, Bowser or Donkey Kong far thinner, despite being rather tall.

Also, Mewtwo was also slow, had low priority, range and pretty much no reliable killing move outside of his UThrow.

 

[B!squick]

So Wario is easily comboed? That's news to me, to be honest.

I said generally, smarty pants. Wario is an exception because his aerial mobility is over 9000.

 

[SamuraiPanda]

Weight is not the same as aerial control. Characters with great aerial control can live far longer, which screws with the balance between light and heavy. For example, Pikachu (with correct DI) often lives as long as Snake, which can be ridiculous.

Honestly there are pros and cons to all three weight types.
Heavy Pro: Don't die early
Heavy Con: Comboed easily at low percents, and relatively easy to rack up damage on
Mid Pro: Balance of speed and power without dying too early, and is usually not easy to combo
Mid Con: Rarely excels in a single category
Light Pro: Speed and power
Light Con: Die early

There is no single type that is better than others, and many characters have bypassed some categories due to special properties (GW due to bucket braking, for example) or aerial control. The choice of one type over the other is merely preference.

 

[Beren Zaiga]

snake is a great heavy character because he is till fast(not extremely but decent) and can recover. a bad heavy is bowser because he is still really slow with minimal recovery.

Light characters all have the same idea that they are easier to get knocked off but often have considerably better recovery. so that is wy you want some sort of medium to avoid the disadvantages or gain certain things.

To quote JayDeth.

"Bowser is NOT SLOW!"

Get it through your skull.

 

[Shadow13]

Let's just say that, if MK was heavy, he would probably be banned.

if MK was heavy he probably wouldn't be as fast/have as good recovery

 

[Apollo$]

Foxes strength comes in moderation and it's pretty decent but he can only withstand so much damage before he gets easily KO'd. It's best to play it safe and know when to run and find a good camping spot.

 

[smashkng]

Not all heavyweights are slow in movement. DK is the fastest overall moving heavyweight in the game (counting walking, dash and walking speed). The fastest heavyweight runner is Charizard, the air speed is Yoshi (but Yoshi is weak for a character of his weight), maybe who use it best being Wario and walking DK if referring top 10 weight. All of movement speed of DK is better than Mario.

Bowser is not the slowest in Brawl, but some of his attacks like up air or fsmash are slow. His movement outside walking speed is decent or quite fast and Ganondorf and Ike are two characters with far slower attack speed.

 

[Kitamerby]

Bowser has one of the highest air speeds. Fun little fact there.

 

[smashkng]

Bowser has one of the highest air speeds. Fun little fact there.

Above average, but not top. It's the 13th fastest.

 

[Darknid]

High weight doesn't mean you are easy to combo. If you have a fast move that can be used in the air, along with good DI you can usually get out of combos. DK also gets out of combos very well for some reason with DI, yet he's still the hardest character to kill.

 

[Elder Sister]

yeah agreed

 

[Matador]

All of movement speed of DK is better than Mario.

So for all intents and purposes, DK is faster than Mario?

 

[Elder Sister]

nope
hes just tougher
actually i prefer mario