How to apply Fludd?

[Enderwoman]

I like playing as Mario, and I use him quite often as a secondary or when I'm just screwing around. However, one thing I've been having difficulty using is Fludd. I can't ever use him correctly and its just kinda useless to me. It doesn't seem to work on anyone that is skilled at recovering. So how do I make proper use of Fludd? Any strategies or setups I can use to make him more effective?

Also, any strategies with custom specials are very appreciated. I much prefer playing with Mario when customs are on. I use Turbo Fludd in all my setups, but are the default and Scalding any good?

 

[Darrman]

Always charge FLUDD at the start of a match. It is most effective at gimping people with poor recoveries, as the pushback effect nullifies the recovery and leaves them helpless. It's worse on characters with good recoveries, like Villager (balloons), Kirby (jumps), or Lucario (THAT UP-B RECOVERS FROM ANYWHERE!!!) I'm just a scrub, though. There's plenty of pros here with tips on using customs especially. All my experience is FG, so yeah. FG or no, b-throw a Mac at around 60-70 at the ledge and watch him fall while you FLUDD him. That is why you should use FLUDD!

 

[ItsRainingGravy]

Here are my guides on the FLUDDs:


http://smashboards.com/threads/scalding-fludd-useless-perhaps-not.376560/

http://smashboards.com/threads/fludd-vs-high-pressure-fludd.376120/


I'll reply to this topic in more detail when I am not busy, but basically:

Scalding FLUDD is usually Mario's best FLUDD in most mathups.

HP FLUDD is usually the better FLUDD to use when compared to the default FLUDD.

Default FLUDD is only really useful against Little Mac or Ness, where the faster charge time and longer initial range actually make a difference.

 

[BSP]

Aside from the obvious edge guard application, try using FLUDD to:

Whiff punish characters like Marth, Lucina, the links, Samus, Mario, Luigi, DK, etc. for using up B in an offensive manner and missing. Since Mario is the only character with FLUDD, 95% of people will retreat to the ledge because no one else can punish it as hard. Push them past it.

Punish people for retreating to the ledge in general. It's harder to do with normal FLUDD, but HPFLUDD can push them pretty far, even in they air dodge into the ground to avoid some of the water.

Push people camping ledges against you off of the stage, if you're having significant trouble getting in otherwise.

Also @ Darrman , FLUDD is pretty effective against Kirby's final cutter, and against Villager, you can KO him for trying to mix you up with Lloid Rocket.

Best bet with Lucario is trying to push him past ledges if he overshoots, but that's pretty hard.

 

[Darrman]

Aside from the obvious edge guard application, try using FLUDD to:
Whiff punish characters like Marth, Lucina, the links, Samus, Mario, Luigi, DK, etc. for using up B in an offensive manner and missing. Since Mario is the only character with FLUDD, 95% of people will retreat to the ledge because no one else can punish it as hard. Push them past it.
Punish people for retreating to the ledge in general. It's harder to do with normal FLUDD, but HPFLUDD can push them pretty far, even in they air dodge into the ground to avoid some of the water.
Push people camping ledges against you off of the stage, if you're having significant trouble getting in otherwise.

Also @ Darrman , FLUDD is pretty effective against Kirby's final cutter, and against Villager, you can KO him for trying to mix you up with Lloid Rocket.

Best bet with Lucario is trying to push him past ledges if he overshoots, but that's pretty hard.

Thanks for those tips. They seem useful. So FLUDD people at the ledge upon a whiffed up-b? And just do it in general during ledge play, right?

 

[Enderwoman]

Aside from the obvious edge guard application, try using FLUDD to:

Whiff punish characters like Marth, Lucina, the links, Samus, Mario, Luigi, DK, etc. for using up B in an offensive manner and missing. Since Mario is the only character with FLUDD, 95% of people will retreat to the ledge because no one else can punish it as hard. Push them past it.

Punish people for retreating to the ledge in general. It's harder to do with normal FLUDD, but HPFLUDD can push them pretty far, even in they air dodge into the ground to avoid some of the water.

Push people camping ledges against you off of the stage, if you're having significant trouble getting in otherwise.

The thing is, I'm not even good at edgeguarding with Fludd. Like I said, most players I play against are smart. They save their second jump, airdodge when they have to and stay under the platform if they can. Its impossible to aim under the platform since the water pressure pushes Mario back, and I'm not the type of player to take the risk of jumping off of the edge to secure the edgeguard. I'm really awful at getting back on the stage when I use an attack that lasts a while too. And another thing that makes it more difficult is recovery moves that are also attacks, which could potentially interrupt Fludd.

 

[HeavyMetalSonic]

All I can say is play Mario how you want to play him. If Fludd is causing you problems, you don't HAVE to use it. Fludd is good against certain people (such as Kirby or Ike and their upB), and it's best to try not to spam it trying for a kill which you could have a better chance of getting with a well placed Fair or other kill moves, given the situation. Just throw it out randomly when you have them against the ropes, when they don't expect it.

You say you like customs though? You could pair it with either Fastball or the orb fireball for edge guarding shenanigans, try and coax them to use their double jump then blast them away with Fludd. Pairing it with gust cape could work too, I don't know... Just some ideas. I'm not too familiar with his customs minus his fireballs and UpB's.

 

[BSP]

Thanks for those tips. They seem useful. So FLUDD people at the ledge upon a whiffed up-b? And just do it in general during ledge play, right?

On whiffed Up Bs, yes, FLUDD immediately. For ledge play, depends. I try to FLUDD people off when they've used their DJ so their returning options will be more limited. If they start airdodging through it, punish the AD instead.

 

[Smashtistics]

There are many ways to use FLUDD well, and it's really about how you play. I've seen Ally use it in tournaments just for spacing, and to sometimes push an opponent back when they've built some momentum.

The main way I use it on FG is to psych opponents out and/or gimp them. When someone is forced to fall from above back onto the stage, FLUDD is a great way to slow their progress and go for a cape or f-smash. Like people mentioned, Ike, Kirby, along with Shulk can be FLUDD kills off of recovery options.

Against certain recoveries, like Falcon and Ganon, FLUDD can catch a little of their up-B and cause a stock to end a little early.

FLUDD also is just a great way to make people earn their recovery the hard way. If someone tries getting back with a f-special with Falcon, for instance, it's a possibility to kill.

FLUDD can also push people onto platforms they don't want to be on.

I only use the regular FLUDD, no customs experience, so everything is based off using that in FG

 

[Inferno3044]

I like playing as Mario, and I use him quite often as a secondary or when I'm just screwing around. However, one thing I've been having difficulty using is Fludd. I can't ever use him correctly and its just kinda useless to me. It doesn't seem to work on anyone that is skilled at recovering. So how do I make proper use of Fludd? Any strategies or setups I can use to make him more effective?

Also, any strategies with custom specials are very appreciated. I much prefer playing with Mario when customs are on. I use Turbo Fludd in all my setups, but are the default and Scalding any good?

Hey there @ Enderwoman . I've helped a few people on these boards and I'll be glad to share whatever Mario knowledge I have. I'll talk about normal FLUDD first. People are right in that you can gimp people with FLUDD, but a good player won't get gimped like that often. A more useful way to use FLUDD is to interrupt the opponent's spacing and zoning. You push them away and punish. For example, imagine you're fighting against Marth and he is running up and going to use fair. You can spray some water to mess up his spacing which will cause him to whiff and land unsafely. This allows you to get a punish (option varies on percent). I'll do FLUDD > Fsmash for kills if the spacing/timing permits. It doesn't even require a fully charged FLUDD. Sometimes I'll charge for half a second and use it.

As for customs, I think turbo is the worst option. Not only does it push them farther, it pushes you back. You can't really punish the opponent and the extra pushback isn't worth. Scalding FLUDD is very good and I recommend it if you're using customs. The water from FLUDD has transcendent priority, which means that it will never clash with another move. With scalding FLUDD that transcendent water now does damage and becomes a very strong anti-approach option. Let's go back to our Marth situation. Now that you have scalding FLUDD, instead of pushing him to misspace and punish, you now damage him and put him in hit stun. You can still follow up on him, if not better than normal FLUDD. And as a little bonus, it actually charges faster. The most optimal customs for Mario imo are the following: regular fireballs, gust cape, regular upB, scalding FLUDD.

I hope this has helped you. If you have any more questions about FLUDD or about Mario in general, feel free to ask. There's no thing as a bad question. I'm away from my Wii U until next week, but I would be happy to play you and give some advice (This offer goes out to any player that wants help, not just Enderwoman).

 

[A2ZOMG]

Hey there @ Enderwoman . I've helped a few people on these boards and I'll be glad to share whatever Mario knowledge I have. I'll talk about normal FLUDD first. People are right in that you can gimp people with FLUDD, but a good player won't get gimped like that often. A more useful way to use FLUDD is to interrupt the opponent's spacing and zoning. You push them away and punish. For example, imagine you're fighting against Marth and he is running up and going to use fair. You can spray some water to mess up his spacing which will cause him to whiff and land unsafely. This allows you to get a punish (option varies on percent). I'll do FLUDD > Fsmash for kills if the spacing/timing permits. It doesn't even require a fully charged FLUDD. Sometimes I'll charge for half a second and use it.

As for customs, I think turbo is the worst option. Not only does it push them farther, it pushes you back. You can't really punish the opponent and the extra pushback isn't worth. Scalding FLUDD is very good and I recommend it if you're using customs. The water from FLUDD has transcendent priority, which means that it will never clash with another move. With scalding FLUDD that transcendent water now does damage and becomes a very strong anti-approach option. Let's go back to our Marth situation. Now that you have scalding FLUDD, instead of pushing him to misspace and punish, you now damage him and put him in hit stun. You can still follow up on him, if not better than normal FLUDD. And as a little bonus, it actually charges faster. The most optimal customs for Mario imo are the following: regular fireballs, gust cape, regular upB, scalding FLUDD.

I hope this has helped you. If you have any more questions about FLUDD or about Mario in general, feel free to ask. There's no thing as a bad question. I'm away from my Wii U until next week, but I would be happy to play you and give some advice (This offer goes out to any player that wants help, not just Enderwoman).

High Pressure FLUDD is a little better than regular for pushing people across the stage with the less charged versions which don't push you backwards nearly as much. For edgeguarding which is still situational, it is much more useful if you go deep offstage or on walkoffs.

Mostly though Scalding FLUDD is kinda like a short range Sheik Needles that anti-airs better, making it the best option most of the time. At the moment however, I would not recommend it vs DK who can pressure from a distance with DownB, and also will use his UpB to combo break vs Mario.

 

[BSP]

Hey there @ Enderwoman .
As for customs, I think turbo is the worst option. Not only does it push them farther, it pushes you back. You can't really punish the opponent and the extra pushback isn't worth.

Short hop and hold forward when you fire the HPFLUDD, and it'll negate the pushback you'd normally experience on the ground. The massive pushback when you fire it grounded makes me think the devs wanted it to be used in the air rather than on the ground.

According to @ ItsRainingGravy 's research, HPFLUDD is always stronger (or negligibly weaker for a small bit of time) than default FLUDD at any given time.

The extra pushback is quite noticeable, and you can KO people if you followup with it after knocking them offstage with something. Like Fthrow -> HPFLUDD at 50%-60% or so will KO unless your opponent airdodges through or double jumps, both of which lead to a more favorable edgeguard situation for Mario. I pull one off in this match (wifi though :/): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-uiLha6bPk. The first one almost KO'd and the second did outright.

I've played @Brawlman1000 a lot with Mario, so he's familiar with FLUDD shenanigans. Even then, I've kept pulling these off. I'll get more examples when I get home later.

Let's go back to our Marth situation. Now that you have scalding FLUDD, instead of pushing him to misspace and punish, you now damage him and put him in hit stun. You can still follow up on him, if not better than normal FLUDD.

I would probably take scalding vs. Marth for consistency as well (you miss out on being able to KO for missed up B's though), but if you HPFLUDD him in this situation, depending on where he is, he's going to be put into an edgeguard situation. If he doesn't have his double jump, he might die from the push alone. It's more situational than scalding in this sense, but it can net KOs at any %.

 

[NairWizard]

Always charge FLUDD at the start of a match

I disagree with this. I think that letting your opponent have free stage control at the beginning of the match is a mistake. Position is really important in this game. If you just stand where you start, you give up most of the stage to your opponent and are backed into a corner right off the bat. Really bad spot to be in.

 

[DtJ XeroXen]

Sometimes I charge scalding fludd at the start of the match, otherwise I wouldn't really recommend it.

 

[Inferno3044]

Short hop and hold forward when you fire the HPFLUDD, and it'll negate the pushback you'd normally experience on the ground. The massive pushback when you fire it grounded makes me think the devs wanted it to be used in the air rather than on the ground.

According to @ ItsRainingGravy 's research, HPFLUDD is always stronger (or negligibly weaker for a small bit of time) than default FLUDD at any given time.

The extra pushback is quite noticeable, and you can KO people if you followup with it after knocking them offstage with something. Like Fthrow -> HPFLUDD at 50%-60% or so will KO unless your opponent airdodges through or double jumps, both of which lead to a more favorable edgeguard situation for Mario. I pull one off in this match (wifi though :/): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-uiLha6bPk. The first one almost KO'd and the second did outright.



I've played @Brawlman1000 a lot with Mario, so he's familiar with FLUDD shenanigans. Even then, I've kept pulling these off. I'll get more examples when I get home later.

I think you missed my point on my thoughts on hyper FLUDD. Yes, it has significantly more pushback and its pluses. However with that extra pushback, I can't make my opponent misspace and punish. They'll go too far out for me to hit them. I was curious if there was some janky use like that, but I find it extremely situational. It augments one use of FLUDD while diminishing another. It's like both of Mario's UpB customs. With one, you have a much higher recovery and won't get gimped easily, but you lose the option of using it to attack. The other is much stronger as an attack, but the recovery aspect gets hit. His regular UpB is in the middle and I find it the best option. I'd rather use something that I can use constantly well over getting a KO once every 20+ games. Maybe there are even more uses that I don't know of.

I would probably take scalding vs. Marth for consistency as well (you miss out on being able to KO for missed up B's though), but if you HPFLUDD him in this situation, depending on where he is, he's going to be put into an edgeguard situation. If he doesn't have his double jump, he might die from the push alone. It's more situational than scalding in this sense, but it can net KOs at any %.

The Marth UpB gimp accentuates my point. Yeah there are uses and situations for customs (and you can gimp with regular FLUDD), but why pick an option that can be very good for a select few situations instead of an option that could work as a solid tool in most situations? I like moves with more utility, and scalding has the most of the three.

 

[BSP]

The Marth UpB gimp accentuates my point. Yeah there are uses and situations for customs (and you can gimp with regular FLUDD), but why pick an option that can be very good for a select few situations instead of an option that could work as a solid tool in most situations? I like moves with more utility, and scalding has the most of the three.

Because those select few situations can be the difference between winning and losing, or KOs at sub 20%. I understand what you're saying though. Scalding FLUDD has much more consistency. 1/20 is an exaggeration for KOing people with HPFLUDD though. It's not that hard.

 

[Smashtistics]

I disagree with this. I think that letting your opponent have free stage control at the beginning of the match is a mistake. Position is really important in this game. If you just stand where you start, you give up most of the stage to your opponent and are backed into a corner right off the bat. Really bad spot to be in.

When playing FG, a good rule of thumb for me is if you charge FLUDD at beginning of match, and get punished or lose stage control, your opponent has some idea what they're doing.

 

[JuanP_91]

Here's my opinion about each FLUUD variation

Normal FLUUD is mainly for gimping, but I also use it as a distraction. Against opponents recovering low, you can RAR off the edge and fire FLUDD to send them below the stage. Pretty useful imo

Scadling FLUUD is great. It charges and comes out quickly, plus the damage. Its short range means its best used to stop aerial or ground approaches if an opponent leaves himself open. Also, Mario gains noticeably faster air speed while using it, which can be implemented for various strategies.

I find Turbo pretty much useless.

 

[HeroMystic]

@ JuanP_91 Is there a reason why you prefer Normal FLUDD over High Pressure FLUDD?

 

[JuanP_91]

@ JuanP_91 Is there a reason why you prefer Normal FLUDD over High Pressure FLUDD?

Well, I've been messing with HP FLUUD just recently, and here's how its use differs from Normal FLUUD imo.

HP FLUUD exchanges load speed for power, which does have its uses. My main issue with it is how frequently can you apply those uses. Normally, you won't get many chances to load it, which limits how often it can be used. Although FLUUD may not do the job as well, it can be used more dinamically and won't slow you down as much.

In the end, this is just my opinion, and also depends on whether you care or not about losing some momentum in your game.