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How to Beat Meta Knight
- Thread starter Izzhov
- Start date
Veggi
Smash Champion
u tilt=bat swatter
f tilt=smacks him out of his tornado and I'm pretty sure most other things he has.
b air=easy to hit with and if spaced right I think it's impossible to shield grab.
stage spike and meteor smashes don't care about MK's awesome recovery.
Try throwing out a giant punch during his tornado, or when he trys to hit you with his down b.
Also, when he comes out to edgeguard you eat him up with your up b or dunk him with side b if it looks easy enough. If he knows better than to try to edgeguard DK, just drop down so that you sweetspot the edge with your up b.
f tilt=smacks him out of his tornado and I'm pretty sure most other things he has.
b air=easy to hit with and if spaced right I think it's impossible to shield grab.
stage spike and meteor smashes don't care about MK's awesome recovery.
Try throwing out a giant punch during his tornado, or when he trys to hit you with his down b.
Also, when he comes out to edgeguard you eat him up with your up b or dunk him with side b if it looks easy enough. If he knows better than to try to edgeguard DK, just drop down so that you sweetspot the edge with your up b.
Master Raven
Smash Master
DK's Utilts and Ftilts have insane range that can out-range a Meta's ground attacks. SH Bairs are very useful too. Take special note that MK is a VERY light character, so you can get some good KOs very early on. Don't bother Cargo Stage Spiking him however, unless he's at a high enough percentage where he can't tech out of it. The reason for this is due to his insanely good recovery.
I happen to main MK myself so yeah.
I happen to main MK myself so yeah.
I agree, although it depends on the situation...
eMORAY21
Smash Journeyman
Who told you that? :|
Izzhov
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Mar 9, 2008
- Messages
- 50
Everyone else on Smashboards. XD
Brahma
Smash Journeyman
Ftilt and Bair beat out MK tornado, BUT, usually Metaknight isn't using tornado from a distance where you can easily swat it away. Good MK players will use tornado up close, where it outspeeds Ftilt and Bair. The obvious solution to this is to dash away and Bair to beat out tornado.
MK is outranged on the ground by DK's tilts and in the air by Bair. However, just because MK doesn't have the range DK does doesn't mean he can't hit him. MK is quite speedy, and he can easily get inside DK's range if you aren't careful and don't watch your spacing. If MK gets inside your range, it's tough to get him off of you, and he can rack up a lot of damage and combos on DK's big and heavy hitbox. He also has disjointed hitboxes so if you attack him from too far away his sword will just cut through your attacks and he'll be all over you.
Try to set your distance with him just outside of his optimal range for aerials, but still inside your tilt/Bair range. If you block one of his aerials on the ground, you can sometimes punish with Utilt or Dsmash if you're quick. If you happen to block tornado or SideB, roll opposite of the way they're going. If you stay put in the shield, you'll usually get shield poked because of DK's crappy shield-to-size ratio. After they finish both of those moves, they are dead in the air and take a split second to get back to the ground, which is your opportunity to close in and Ftilt/Bair/DownB/Grab.
Don't worry about CSS, MK has too good of recovery and you're just putting yourself in position to be stage spiked by his UpB.
Get to the edge fast, as MK can edgeguard DK decently. Don't mess around too much by the edge. Also, don't try to edgeguard MK too much. His UpB will blow right through any of your spike attempts or other edgeguards. Usually I jump out back towards him and DI away back towards the stage, so that if he does try to hit me with shuttle loop, I can try to Bair him after he whiffs.
Overall, watching your spacing is the most important thing. If MK gets too close or too far away, he's in a good position. You have to try and keep a set distance for the fight so he doesn't beat your attacks with his disjoints or get in too close where you can't shake him. Don't try to get him off the edge early, his recovery is good and you can't really edgeguard him. Build up damage and go for the outright kill. MK is light, so he dies easy off the top. Uair while he is higher up works well, as does Usmash and Dsmash. Green Greens is a good counterpick against him. Don't be afraid to throw out Punch either, just time it to make use of the SA. Fsmash can catch him on the ground too and outrange his own smashes.
MK is outranged on the ground by DK's tilts and in the air by Bair. However, just because MK doesn't have the range DK does doesn't mean he can't hit him. MK is quite speedy, and he can easily get inside DK's range if you aren't careful and don't watch your spacing. If MK gets inside your range, it's tough to get him off of you, and he can rack up a lot of damage and combos on DK's big and heavy hitbox. He also has disjointed hitboxes so if you attack him from too far away his sword will just cut through your attacks and he'll be all over you.
Try to set your distance with him just outside of his optimal range for aerials, but still inside your tilt/Bair range. If you block one of his aerials on the ground, you can sometimes punish with Utilt or Dsmash if you're quick. If you happen to block tornado or SideB, roll opposite of the way they're going. If you stay put in the shield, you'll usually get shield poked because of DK's crappy shield-to-size ratio. After they finish both of those moves, they are dead in the air and take a split second to get back to the ground, which is your opportunity to close in and Ftilt/Bair/DownB/Grab.
Don't worry about CSS, MK has too good of recovery and you're just putting yourself in position to be stage spiked by his UpB.
Get to the edge fast, as MK can edgeguard DK decently. Don't mess around too much by the edge. Also, don't try to edgeguard MK too much. His UpB will blow right through any of your spike attempts or other edgeguards. Usually I jump out back towards him and DI away back towards the stage, so that if he does try to hit me with shuttle loop, I can try to Bair him after he whiffs.
Overall, watching your spacing is the most important thing. If MK gets too close or too far away, he's in a good position. You have to try and keep a set distance for the fight so he doesn't beat your attacks with his disjoints or get in too close where you can't shake him. Don't try to get him off the edge early, his recovery is good and you can't really edgeguard him. Build up damage and go for the outright kill. MK is light, so he dies easy off the top. Uair while he is higher up works well, as does Usmash and Dsmash. Green Greens is a good counterpick against him. Don't be afraid to throw out Punch either, just time it to make use of the SA. Fsmash can catch him on the ground too and outrange his own smashes.
Trozz
Smash Ace
Don't approach him off-stage. You can't hope to spike him.
F-smash goes through some of his attacks and kills him early.
If he is somehow living with lots of damage, attempt to kill with b-throw.
F-smash goes through some of his attacks and kills him early.
If he is somehow living with lots of damage, attempt to kill with b-throw.
Godhand_Soup
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Apr 19, 2008
- Messages
- 20
That title goes to Snake.
Eh, they're pretty equal counter wise. And Snake takes forever to learn.
i seriously believe you guys must not be fighting good metaknights.
Its rediculous how much hype DK has now. It'll die down, just like wolf and ike, just give it time. DK doesn't "counter" any hightiers, believe me.
Even after 8 years in melee "counter-matchups" are completely unreliable as how a pro fox can beat a pro falco and pro marth beat a pro sheik, etc.
Except you're not even talking about top tiers..you're talking about a mid tier (DK) versus a top tier (meta), lol....seriously guys!
Its rediculous how much hype DK has now. It'll die down, just like wolf and ike, just give it time. DK doesn't "counter" any hightiers, believe me.
Even after 8 years in melee "counter-matchups" are completely unreliable as how a pro fox can beat a pro falco and pro marth beat a pro sheik, etc.
Except you're not even talking about top tiers..you're talking about a mid tier (DK) versus a top tier (meta), lol....seriously guys!
Organous
Smash Apprentice
Right, because a lower tier character by definition can never beat a top tier character. Remember the rules guys, if you don't play as Meta Knight or Snake, you lose.
/sarcasm
/sarcasm
Ripple
ᗣᗣᗣᗣ ᗧ·····•·····
- Joined
- Sep 4, 2006
- Messages
- 9,632
well that is high vs high tier, that could go in any direction. usually in melee most of the low tiers countered 2 or more of the high tiers. DK vs fox/falcon, G&W vs ganon/fox, mewtwo vs shiek/ICs. it could be the same in brawl but with mid tier
Nigerian Star Storm
Smash Ace
I either sense some serious sarcasm in this post or a mixture of ignorance and stupidity.
As a Metaknight main, I can easily say that Good/Great DKs give me plenty of trouble. Granted I usually pull it out in the end, but they are really hard to fight without getting ***** slapped with an F-Utilt/Giant Punch and sent flying off the stage.
Also, the Ike hype was really only justified by noobs. The Wolf hype, however, I completely agree happened
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
it may have been sarcasm but its still true
/sadness for my main
Radiation
Smash Apprentice
I don't care what tier Donkey Kong is: I play with him all the time, and he's definitely good against Metaknight, at least compared to the other characters. B-air and F-tilt outrange Metaknight in the air and on the ground. If he gets close, your D-smash will kill him at low percentages or you can simply grab him with your sweet, sweet grab-range. Then, finally, when Metaknight uses his stupid tornado or his forward-air or any retardedly prioritized multi-hit move, you pull out your Giant Punch, take the damage, and send him flying. As long as you have Giant Punch (I dunno if forward smash works as well) Metaknight will be more afraid to use the tornado (although it's fast and will probably catch you off guard anyway.) DK definitely has the elements to beat MK, especially when you consider that with DK's power vs. MK's weight, you're gonna be killing them in half the time it would take to kill anyone else.
Master Raven
Smash Master
Brahma
Smash Journeyman
I don't think that DK is a true "counter" to Snake or MK, but he does have pretty even matchups with both. It's a match that can be winnable for both sides.
Also, it's still fairly early in the game to determine true tiers yet. If you remember, the first two official Melee tier lists had Zelda in the top 10, and Captain Falcon and Jiggly near the bottom. Technically, we haven't even had our first official tier list, as characters are still being looked at. Arguing that DK can't take on Snake or MK simply because they are seen as high tier and DK as mid tier at this point in time is a fairly baseless argument.
thanks for showing the best roy in the world beat a decent marth. You put the best Roy against M2K's marth, and u tell me how that goes, ok?
"Also, it's still fairly early in the game to determine true tiers yet. If you remember, the first two official Melee tier lists had Zelda in the top 10, and Captain Falcon and Jiggly near the bottom."
well..there were only 26 characters..so top 10 was nothing to brag about, especially with low tiers having many even matchups with mid tiers even at melee's end. The fact is, Fox and Sheik were high tier very early on..and they stayed there. We didn't need advanced tactics to tell us who was simply stronger, faster, and safer.
And even with so much advancements, Capt and Jigs are still at a disadvantage against most of the top tiers.
Master Raven
Smash Master
M2K would win, but you know why? It's not just because he's using a high/top tier character, but because he's more skilled, and skill > tiers.
Brahma
Smash Journeyman
Cyphus, my point was that saying that DK can't have a good matchup with Snake and MK simply because he isn't in the same tier as them isn't much of an argument. Mostly because we're only 4 months into the game. My guess is MK is probably going to stay on or near the top, but I could definitely see Snake moving down a bit over time. Regardless of tiers, DK still has a fairly even mathup with both. IMO he is at a slight disadvantage, but both matches are winnable for him.
i'll end my part here with the fact that i never said DK couldn't beat meta or snake, never have said they counter him, and haven't even denied the possibility of it being an even matchup.
All i've stated is DK does not 'counter' any high tiers. For the most part, i think "counter characters" are extremely subjective and most dont even exist among pros. Such that i've exampled using melee's "falco > fox" and "sheik > marth" which nearly just as often with pros, goes the other way.
I'm just aggravated with people claiming such "counters" to begin with....saying DK counters snake or meta or anyone...is just absolutely rediculous. Hell..even if you said DK counters Bowser...i'd say he doesn't, but only has a slight advantage.
All i've stated is DK does not 'counter' any high tiers. For the most part, i think "counter characters" are extremely subjective and most dont even exist among pros. Such that i've exampled using melee's "falco > fox" and "sheik > marth" which nearly just as often with pros, goes the other way.
I'm just aggravated with people claiming such "counters" to begin with....saying DK counters snake or meta or anyone...is just absolutely rediculous. Hell..even if you said DK counters Bowser...i'd say he doesn't, but only has a slight advantage.
Newsflash: Neo is the best Roy in the world.
Kashakunaki
Smash Master
News Flash: This thread isn't about tiers or Roy. Thank you, come again.
I play the best metaknight in NY almost every day, who places top 5 in our tournaments consistently, way higher than i place, and i beat him 90% of the time. I've actually never lost to a single metaknight with dk in NY. 3 of our top players including myself believe that this matchup is almost completely in dk's favor. I think it just seems hard, but if you used the other character it would be much harder for you, seeing as metaknight can't kill dk.
On a strategic note, powershielding is a huge help against metaknight. Stay away from the ledge when he's coming back, as generally they upb or >b off the ledge. You can punish his upb's second hit by shieldgrabbing. Downb when you know they don't have lag after a move because they generally sidestep. fsmash kills really early, and don't be afraid to bair them far off the ledge for easy kills.
Kashakunaki
Smash Master
I find it hard to believe that the match up is in DK's favor, but it seems to be that way.
Oh, also, Wolf is bad ***, Cyphus. Screw you.
Oh, also, Wolf is bad ***, Cyphus. Screw you.
itsthebigfoot
Smash Lord
1. we don't know the tiers yet, while meta is likely top tier, dk is arguably high tier, in which case, a high tier countering a top tier isn't that uncommon
2. dk does have great matchups with the high tiers from my personal experience, robs at a disadvantage, mk is at a disadvantage, snake is at a disadvantage, and your only real problem matchup is dedede (wario fox and ic's are definitely at an advantage over dk, but ddd is the only match where you will almost never win
3. it ever cross your mind that dk is just a good character? wolf and ike all got hype because they're good online, dk is personally much better offline, so maybe he's just better than you think
petey_did_it
Smash Ace
as a MK main, i play a pretty good DK (wastingpenguins), and granted he does not have much meta knight experience, he still has a lot of trouble against my MK. my tornado is causing him the biggest problems because the way i use it, it makes it very hard for him to counter. i have seen a lot of tourney meta knights that might use nado once or twice a match, which is ******** cuz the moves amazing. im guessing these MKs arent exploiting DK's biggest weakness. basically, nado ***** DK.
TechnoMonster
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Mar 9, 2008
- Messages
- 836
Neo is the best Roy.
isomorphism
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Jun 1, 2008
- Messages
- 68
DK has a lot of options against the tornado... Bair (I don't know if it works when the tornado is strongest but it comes out really fast so if the DK expects it he can hit you out of it easily), charged B-punch, F-tilt (which is really fast too and works for the entire animation), F-smash, Down-B (I think)... the reason most MKs don't spam the tornado vs. DK is because it's not nearly as effective against him as it is with most characters.
Master Raven
Smash Master
Bair and Fsmash from my personal experienced has not worked on cancelling the tornado. I haven't tried his Down B but I would never consider using that against Meta since most MK players love the air, and I'm sure DK Punch would work but only during the SA frames, of course. Dair would be a good option too since virtually all Dairs can cancel the tornado, however that requires some pretty good timing from my experience.
if i can predict a tornado from a spammer i F.smash through it.
you can't realistically f.tilt through it, or b.air...if it goes through, you got lucky..its a rare thing. tornado *****. If you dont call when he does it...roll/airdodge and punish with a d.tilt (fastest reaching move) or dash grab if you anticipate he'll shield.
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technomaster, i will have to respectfully Disagree.
Sethlon has done more for Roy than anyone has, is easily the best roy, and its ashame smash celebs of short eras can take credit from dedicated low tier players.
Sethlon mained roy and has taken out great players like Forward- in tournaments. I am 100% positive he's the best Roy in the world; hell, i'm easily Top 3 of Docs in the country and i win by the skin of my teeth (and doc is suppose to **** roy).
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you can't realistically f.tilt through it, or b.air...if it goes through, you got lucky..its a rare thing. tornado *****. If you dont call when he does it...roll/airdodge and punish with a d.tilt (fastest reaching move) or dash grab if you anticipate he'll shield.
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technomaster, i will have to respectfully Disagree.
Sethlon has done more for Roy than anyone has, is easily the best roy, and its ashame smash celebs of short eras can take credit from dedicated low tier players.
Sethlon mained roy and has taken out great players like Forward- in tournaments. I am 100% positive he's the best Roy in the world; hell, i'm easily Top 3 of Docs in the country and i win by the skin of my teeth (and doc is suppose to **** roy).
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Mr.E
Smash Lord
Who told you that?
I agree. Sethlon is the best Roy player in the world.
Seriously, he ****ing 2-0'ed forwards shiek IN TOURNAMENT. Thats like a 80-20 match-up in shieks favor lol. He has also beaten Cavemans shiek and many other really great players in tournament with roy >_>.
I would say Neo is an overall better player, but I am convinced that if there was a round robin tournament and Sethlon and Neo both went only roy Seth would have better results.
As far as Metaknight goes it's definitely a difficult fight.
My friend mains MK and I main DK. The tornado really does **** DK,
his giant hitbox just gets him sucked right in. Granted, sometimes you can knock out the tornado with an Ftilt, Fsmash, or Bair but none of the above is reliable. Not even the SA on the Donkey Punch saves you from the Whornado.
My overall strategy is to maintain a decent distance from MK and do everything I can to stay out of an air battle. In the air a decent MK will combo you to hell. Also, watch your landing lag as MK has the speed to punish and combo you. Ftilt and Dtilt are your best friends as most MK players will walk into them repeatedly in an effort to keep you under pressure.
I see why DK is a good counter, but don't underestimate MK in this matchup, if you slack off he will combo you to death.
My friend mains MK and I main DK. The tornado really does **** DK,
his giant hitbox just gets him sucked right in. Granted, sometimes you can knock out the tornado with an Ftilt, Fsmash, or Bair but none of the above is reliable. Not even the SA on the Donkey Punch saves you from the Whornado.
My overall strategy is to maintain a decent distance from MK and do everything I can to stay out of an air battle. In the air a decent MK will combo you to hell. Also, watch your landing lag as MK has the speed to punish and combo you. Ftilt and Dtilt are your best friends as most MK players will walk into them repeatedly in an effort to keep you under pressure.
I see why DK is a good counter, but don't underestimate MK in this matchup, if you slack off he will combo you to death.
QUIVO
Smash Master
I know that dittos don't mean as much, but didn't Neo beat Sethlon at pound?
Tornados are annoying, but if you space properly and shield at the right times it's not so bad. You also have to be a bit trickier with airdodging.
Against MK I do a lot of tilts and bairs. I'll mix things up but I just try to space him out.
Tornados are annoying, but if you space properly and shield at the right times it's not so bad. You also have to be a bit trickier with airdodging.
Against MK I do a lot of tilts and bairs. I'll mix things up but I just try to space him out.
Killress
Smash Ace
Bair WOP. 'nuff said