A bit overdue/late... but oh well.
Problem moves:
[COLLAPSE="Mortar Slide/Dash Attack"]This is probably one of the most annoying aspects in the MU.
Dash attack/Mortar slide can catch landings REALLY well vs Marth. Works especially well against a SH (think Sheik's dash attack).
If you whiff an aerial, be ready to get by this.
Save your double jump. If you can get Snake to commit to using dash attack/mortar slide, then you can land for free by just jumping over him the way he came from.
Dtilt, pivot grab, and slow fall nair are probably your best options to beat dash attack/mortar slide head-to-head.
If you have an impressive reaction time (well, first of all, I'm quite jealous of you) you can shield dash attack/mortar slide and then shield grab Snake before he goes past you. (Fun fact: You can do this with MK's dash attack too, but it's a lot harder.)
If you get knocked into the air by mortar slide so that you're above Snake, you have to act quickly. You have to mix-up what you do to avoid the mortar that is about to hit you. You can either AD, jump away, break it with an aerial, or counter. Mix-up what you do and you should be fine. Get predictable and get up or back aired or ftilted (or utilted at kill percents).[/COLLAPSE]
[COLLAPSE="Ftilt"]Snake's ftilt is going to be used as a punishing move pretty much 100% of the time.
Ftilt2 is super punishable on shield. Shield drop to fsmash should work but DB is 100% guaranteed.
Be wary of ftilt1 mix-ups though. Don't get caught waiting for ftilt2 and let him run away.
Ftilt1 on shield can be DSed.
If you get caught shielding too long after ftilt1, be prepared to get caught by ftilt1->grab. This works really similarly to our DB1 on shield to grab. Not even close to guaranteed, but a really solid option.[/COLLAPSE]
[COLLAPSE="Utilt"]This is the reason you want to FH rising fair Snake. Falling fair will get utilted, and at kill percents, that's definitely a bad trade for you.
Needless to say, the range/disjoint on it is ridiculous. Luckily, you have good disjoints too. Jab/ftilt/blahblah all clash with it.
If you space rising fair badly, it can punish FH rising fair on PS. So space well with it.
It will start killing you at about 110% with perfect DI.
Utilt is SUPER laggy. As a reference point, if I remember correctly, Ganon can fsmash it on shield if frame perfect (although it may have been on PS).[/COLLAPSE]
[COLLAPSE="Nair"]Seriously, just counter. If you try anything else, it's just an unnecessary risk. Jump into the last hit, counter, knock him back offstage, and continue to molest him.[/COLLAPSE]
Grenades:
First and foremost, make sure you know all the item tricks there are. See my thread on the Diddy MU for a list of the item ATs.
[COLLAPSE=" "]4 second timer from the time the pin is pulled until the explosion happens.
One of your biggest all around advantages on Snake is your overall better mobility. Nades give you access to your long distance, and quick, glide toss. Use it carefully and smartly. Make sure you don't throw the nade so that you slide into it.
While grenades do a fair bit of damage (12% fresh), they're not really supposed to explode on you. Grenades are largely meant to control space and to deal chip damage (the 1-5% from the item throw hitting you). Recognize this and pay more attention to where the Snake player puts them. The way they camp will be a habit of theirs and you should be able to punish their camping.
Grenade throws themselves are fairly laggy. Don't be afraid to just run through them, take the little damage, and punish them.
So, unless they're cooking the nades really well, you can largely ignore the nades when thrown/tossed.
Unless there is a very large distance between the two characters, instant throwing nades back at Snake is quick enough to get the nades away from you before Snake can strip them. Mostly good to know when you have a noticeable lead and are trying to camp Snake out.
On that topic, grenade stripping can become problematic if you get overly aggressive with your use of them against Snake (glidetossing too much/unsafely, trying to hold onto them to cook them more before you throw them at Snake, etc).
If Snake is protecting himself with a wall of grenades around him or constantly holding one, grabs are your best friend.
When you do grab him though, don't pummel. Pummeling will set off the grenades he's holding and blow you up. Just throw him; throw him offstage if you're close enough to do so, or throw him up if you're not.
Once you get a large enough lead for you to feel comfortable, start camping him out. Nades are meant to control space, and you should know how to deal with them on the whole. Force him to put himself in danger by coming to you.
When you use an aerial vs Snake while he's holding a grenade, make sure you aim for his face. If you hit his body, you'll be likely to hit the nade and blow both of you up (or if he's shielding, just yourself). Trades like these Snake wants and will glady make all day long.
Dtilt is amazing in this MU. However, using it vs a backwards nade walk isn't the best of ideas. If he shields, it drops the nade to the floor, and then you blow yourself up while he is perfectly fine. [/COLLAPSE]
Spacing, Zoning, and poking Snake:
This aspect of the match is not dissimilar from playing against DDD.
[COLLAPSE=" "]FH fair is better than SHFF fair in pretty much all ways, especially at kill percents. Risking death for a potential 13% is just not a good risk/reward at all.
Fall with nair. The hitbox is out longer offering more protection against mortar slide and dash attack. Additionally the shieldpush makes getting utilted on shield significantly less likely.
Make sure you save your double jump as often as you possibly can. Jumping over mortar slide and dash attack lets you land more safely while he lags from trying to punish your landing.
Dtilt is really **** vs Snake. Just make sure you don't do it while he's in a backwards grenade walk. Snake shields a lot (grab grab grab) so dtilt has potential to shieldpoke as well.
If you do fair, make sure it is spaced perfectly (and retreated). If you're not sure at all, nair them instead (slow fall).[/COLLAPSE]
Juggling:
Your walk speed is quicker than Snake's max air speed. Considering the time it'll take Snake to accelerate, your walk will be more than sufficient to juggle him. Dashing just gives you a laggy turn around animation and the potential to trip.
[COLLAPSE=" "]Your uair's range is wide enough to catch the start of a B-reverse and hit him.
FAST FALL EVERYTHING
FF uair beats falling bair (he'll fall into the uair and you should come out safe).
Make sure you attempt juggles close to the stage. There's no reason to let his faster fall speed allow him to get under you.
FF uair loses to AD. However, FF uair into utilt beats AD. And, if the uair does hit Snake, then the utilt whiffs and you just continue the juggle (granted if you have a quick enough reaction time, you should be able to hit confirm the uair).
Grab grab grab grab grab grab grab! Grab his landing and just uthrow him to reset the situation.
C4 shouldn't really be a big deal. Make sure you don't commit too early or unsafely and just listen for when Snake announces his trap.
Full hopping and double jumping is unnecessary. Just play it close to the ground for the easiest results.
As long as you FF your uair (FF EVERYTHING EVER), the nade shouldn't blow you up.[/COLLAPSE]
Offstage (Snake recovering):
Snake's main tool to recover is his cypher (upB). When using his cypher, Snake has "heavy armor" which makes it so any attack that hits hit that does less than 8% will not knock him out of cypher (he still takes the damage though).
[COLLAPSE=" "]If Snake is recovering high, especially high enough to be offscreen, expect grenades ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kw9CSsgUUFo#t=4m57s ) and nikitas ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOcl1JaAVyI#t=350s ) to rain down from overhead. Just be careful.
Be able to footstool Snake out of his C4 if the opportunity presents itself.
Obviously, everyone should be able to dair Snake out of his cypher rather easily.
Dolphin Slash can be used to break Snake's upB, and potentially kill him, similarly to how MK kills Snake out of cypher by using Shuttle Loop. If you DS when Snake is nearish the blast zone, you knock him into it horizontally and the cypher hits you out of your free fall state. However, DS has to be relatively fresh in order for you to not kill yourself.
Tippered fair will break cypher for quite awhile. Untippered fair... not so much. So, if you don't space well, you'll eat a bair/uair/nair for a possible stock.
If Snake is falling to the ledge, and you grab it first, make sure you use the DS regrab trick to keep your invincibility frames active. Otherwise, Snake can footstool you on the ledge for a free trip back onto the stage.[/COLLAPSE]
Offstage (Marth Recovering):
[COLLAPSE=" "]Be careful with you upB when recovering. While it should never happen, Snake can run off and bair stagespike you. Make sure you just recover properly to stay safe from bair.
Be aware of mortars. Don't AD through them; they're frequently used to frame trap you into an uair or utilt. Nair/Fair can be easily used to break the mortars.
Save your jump! With no jump you lose any flexibility you have in recovering. A common, but strong, trap Snake has is to drop nades/C4/mine on the ledge then grab the ledge forcing you to DS onto the stage and get blown up when you land.
Something that is often times overlooked and completely unconsidered in many MUs is getting hit on purpose while offstage. This is especially viable vs Snake. If you're at or below stage level while recovering, letting yourself being blown up by a grenade isn't necessarily a bad thing. It gives you extra height without using your jump to allow you to be more versatile in your recovery. Just make sure you won't die from it.[/COLLAPSE]
Marth on the Ledge:
[COLLAPSE=" "]Watch out for nade/landmine on the edge of the stage. Drop off invincible fair or DS regrabbing the ledge can set off both of them.
Timing a rising AD from the ledge can be a very safe way to get back on stage. The AD catches the nade, and the explosion (while you're invincible from the AD) creates a hitbox around you to shield yourself from anything Snake would try to do.
Along a similar vein of thought, timing a normal get-up through the nade's hitbox does the same thing as a rising AD through the nade.
If you decide to jump, be wary of other explosives on platforms near you that you might land on or near.
Rising instant throw (like you do vs Diddy Kong) is another good option.
Other than that, you're Marth on the ledge... Mix it up, and stay safe.[/COLLAPSE]
Snake on the Ledge:
This section is going to be pretty boring. Snake is terrible here. He has no real options to get up.
[COLLAPSE=" "]If he jumps, juggle him.
If he drops away and cyphers, **** him offstage.
Normal get-up options lose to your normal trapping game.
I guess watch out for drop away-> jump-> B-reverse nade onto the stage?
Just do normal Marth things and you should be fine.[/COLLAPSE]
Snake's Dthrow:
Your options when Snake dthrows you are to:
Stand up, roll away from Snake, roll into Snake, use a get-up attack, and to do nothing.
[COLLAPSE=" "]If you get caught at kill percents, buffering a roll away is probably your safest option. Snake can only dash attack/ mortar slide you.
Get-up attack hits towards Snake then away from Snake. Unless they have a broken reaction time, it is unlikely that they can shield the first hit on reaction. If they predict it, and shield prior, you can get regrabbed.
Rolling behind Snake can get you ftilted (or utilted) on reaction, so it's only good if you think they're expecting a different option.
Thankfully, Marth is skinny so Snake's jab (and buffered jab) go over him.
If you delay getting up before kill percents, dair is guaranteed on you; be ready to SDI it.
Normal get-up can easily be regrabbed. Buffering a DS can work, but if it's shielded you can get uaired rather easily- platforms or not.
Normal get-up into turn around grab can work if they're expecting a get-up attack or get-up into an attack (DS, DB, dtilt, etc).[/COLLAPSE]
General:
[COLLAPSE=" "]Dash/Walk -> PS to set off mines.
When you respawn, using your invincibility to detonate the mines is a good idea. You don't want to let yourself get trapped later on.
C4 blows up on its own after 27 seconds.
Mines disappear after 25 seconds.
When Snake is using his upB, if you manage to grab him do not pummel him. He will air break and not be able to upB again. He'll have to use C4.
Make sure you can footstool him out of his C4.
C4's vertical hitbox above it is nothing special. Below it however is quite large and something to look out for.[/COLLAPSE]
Stages:
Ban: Halberd, FD, PS1
CP: BF/SV/Brinstar
[COLLAPSE=" "]Halberd's low ceiling allows for quicker utilt kills while it doesn't help you all that much since most of your kills won't becoming vertically without getting a high uair off.
FD has no platforms to compliment your juggling/platform pressure game. Also, the stage is long enough to facilitate his camping rather well.
PS1 seems to be a favorite stage among Snakes. Long stage similar to FD for camping. Most transformations favor Snake with his quick, high knockback attacks so that he can follow up with another assault.
BF's platforms make it near impossible for Snake to get back down to the main stage. Juggle him through the platforms and when he lands one, platform pressure him back into the air.
SV's moving platform permits you more mobility than on an unmoving stage so that you can retain all the benefits of being perfectly still while getting in on Snake's camping.
Brinstar is just overall an amazing stage for Marth. He has all his tricks with extended hitboxes on it and can psuedo shark on it for awhile. Vs Snake it is even better. The acid covers up or destroys some of his stage control. Since the stage layout and hazards force both characters into the air, it allows you to start juggling easier than it would have been otherwise.[/COLLAPSE]
Thanks to Mike for looking this over for me!
As always feel free to comment, disagree, etc etc. Nike, I'll add your stuff in when you get free time enough to post it.
Problem moves:
[COLLAPSE="Mortar Slide/Dash Attack"]This is probably one of the most annoying aspects in the MU.
Dash attack/Mortar slide can catch landings REALLY well vs Marth. Works especially well against a SH (think Sheik's dash attack).
If you whiff an aerial, be ready to get by this.
Save your double jump. If you can get Snake to commit to using dash attack/mortar slide, then you can land for free by just jumping over him the way he came from.
Dtilt, pivot grab, and slow fall nair are probably your best options to beat dash attack/mortar slide head-to-head.
If you have an impressive reaction time (well, first of all, I'm quite jealous of you) you can shield dash attack/mortar slide and then shield grab Snake before he goes past you. (Fun fact: You can do this with MK's dash attack too, but it's a lot harder.)
If you get knocked into the air by mortar slide so that you're above Snake, you have to act quickly. You have to mix-up what you do to avoid the mortar that is about to hit you. You can either AD, jump away, break it with an aerial, or counter. Mix-up what you do and you should be fine. Get predictable and get up or back aired or ftilted (or utilted at kill percents).[/COLLAPSE]
[COLLAPSE="Ftilt"]Snake's ftilt is going to be used as a punishing move pretty much 100% of the time.
Ftilt2 is super punishable on shield. Shield drop to fsmash should work but DB is 100% guaranteed.
Be wary of ftilt1 mix-ups though. Don't get caught waiting for ftilt2 and let him run away.
Ftilt1 on shield can be DSed.
If you get caught shielding too long after ftilt1, be prepared to get caught by ftilt1->grab. This works really similarly to our DB1 on shield to grab. Not even close to guaranteed, but a really solid option.[/COLLAPSE]
[COLLAPSE="Utilt"]This is the reason you want to FH rising fair Snake. Falling fair will get utilted, and at kill percents, that's definitely a bad trade for you.
Needless to say, the range/disjoint on it is ridiculous. Luckily, you have good disjoints too. Jab/ftilt/blahblah all clash with it.
If you space rising fair badly, it can punish FH rising fair on PS. So space well with it.
It will start killing you at about 110% with perfect DI.
Utilt is SUPER laggy. As a reference point, if I remember correctly, Ganon can fsmash it on shield if frame perfect (although it may have been on PS).[/COLLAPSE]
[COLLAPSE="Nair"]Seriously, just counter. If you try anything else, it's just an unnecessary risk. Jump into the last hit, counter, knock him back offstage, and continue to molest him.[/COLLAPSE]
Grenades:
First and foremost, make sure you know all the item tricks there are. See my thread on the Diddy MU for a list of the item ATs.
[COLLAPSE=" "]4 second timer from the time the pin is pulled until the explosion happens.
One of your biggest all around advantages on Snake is your overall better mobility. Nades give you access to your long distance, and quick, glide toss. Use it carefully and smartly. Make sure you don't throw the nade so that you slide into it.
While grenades do a fair bit of damage (12% fresh), they're not really supposed to explode on you. Grenades are largely meant to control space and to deal chip damage (the 1-5% from the item throw hitting you). Recognize this and pay more attention to where the Snake player puts them. The way they camp will be a habit of theirs and you should be able to punish their camping.
Grenade throws themselves are fairly laggy. Don't be afraid to just run through them, take the little damage, and punish them.
So, unless they're cooking the nades really well, you can largely ignore the nades when thrown/tossed.
Unless there is a very large distance between the two characters, instant throwing nades back at Snake is quick enough to get the nades away from you before Snake can strip them. Mostly good to know when you have a noticeable lead and are trying to camp Snake out.
On that topic, grenade stripping can become problematic if you get overly aggressive with your use of them against Snake (glidetossing too much/unsafely, trying to hold onto them to cook them more before you throw them at Snake, etc).
If Snake is protecting himself with a wall of grenades around him or constantly holding one, grabs are your best friend.
When you do grab him though, don't pummel. Pummeling will set off the grenades he's holding and blow you up. Just throw him; throw him offstage if you're close enough to do so, or throw him up if you're not.
Once you get a large enough lead for you to feel comfortable, start camping him out. Nades are meant to control space, and you should know how to deal with them on the whole. Force him to put himself in danger by coming to you.
When you use an aerial vs Snake while he's holding a grenade, make sure you aim for his face. If you hit his body, you'll be likely to hit the nade and blow both of you up (or if he's shielding, just yourself). Trades like these Snake wants and will glady make all day long.
Dtilt is amazing in this MU. However, using it vs a backwards nade walk isn't the best of ideas. If he shields, it drops the nade to the floor, and then you blow yourself up while he is perfectly fine. [/COLLAPSE]
Spacing, Zoning, and poking Snake:
This aspect of the match is not dissimilar from playing against DDD.
[COLLAPSE=" "]FH fair is better than SHFF fair in pretty much all ways, especially at kill percents. Risking death for a potential 13% is just not a good risk/reward at all.
Fall with nair. The hitbox is out longer offering more protection against mortar slide and dash attack. Additionally the shieldpush makes getting utilted on shield significantly less likely.
Make sure you save your double jump as often as you possibly can. Jumping over mortar slide and dash attack lets you land more safely while he lags from trying to punish your landing.
Dtilt is really **** vs Snake. Just make sure you don't do it while he's in a backwards grenade walk. Snake shields a lot (grab grab grab) so dtilt has potential to shieldpoke as well.
If you do fair, make sure it is spaced perfectly (and retreated). If you're not sure at all, nair them instead (slow fall).[/COLLAPSE]
Juggling:
Your walk speed is quicker than Snake's max air speed. Considering the time it'll take Snake to accelerate, your walk will be more than sufficient to juggle him. Dashing just gives you a laggy turn around animation and the potential to trip.
[COLLAPSE=" "]Your uair's range is wide enough to catch the start of a B-reverse and hit him.
FAST FALL EVERYTHING
FF uair beats falling bair (he'll fall into the uair and you should come out safe).
Make sure you attempt juggles close to the stage. There's no reason to let his faster fall speed allow him to get under you.
FF uair loses to AD. However, FF uair into utilt beats AD. And, if the uair does hit Snake, then the utilt whiffs and you just continue the juggle (granted if you have a quick enough reaction time, you should be able to hit confirm the uair).
Grab grab grab grab grab grab grab! Grab his landing and just uthrow him to reset the situation.
C4 shouldn't really be a big deal. Make sure you don't commit too early or unsafely and just listen for when Snake announces his trap.
Full hopping and double jumping is unnecessary. Just play it close to the ground for the easiest results.
As long as you FF your uair (FF EVERYTHING EVER), the nade shouldn't blow you up.[/COLLAPSE]
Offstage (Snake recovering):
Snake's main tool to recover is his cypher (upB). When using his cypher, Snake has "heavy armor" which makes it so any attack that hits hit that does less than 8% will not knock him out of cypher (he still takes the damage though).
[COLLAPSE=" "]If Snake is recovering high, especially high enough to be offscreen, expect grenades ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kw9CSsgUUFo#t=4m57s ) and nikitas ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOcl1JaAVyI#t=350s ) to rain down from overhead. Just be careful.
Be able to footstool Snake out of his C4 if the opportunity presents itself.
Obviously, everyone should be able to dair Snake out of his cypher rather easily.
Dolphin Slash can be used to break Snake's upB, and potentially kill him, similarly to how MK kills Snake out of cypher by using Shuttle Loop. If you DS when Snake is nearish the blast zone, you knock him into it horizontally and the cypher hits you out of your free fall state. However, DS has to be relatively fresh in order for you to not kill yourself.
Tippered fair will break cypher for quite awhile. Untippered fair... not so much. So, if you don't space well, you'll eat a bair/uair/nair for a possible stock.
If Snake is falling to the ledge, and you grab it first, make sure you use the DS regrab trick to keep your invincibility frames active. Otherwise, Snake can footstool you on the ledge for a free trip back onto the stage.[/COLLAPSE]
Offstage (Marth Recovering):
[COLLAPSE=" "]Be careful with you upB when recovering. While it should never happen, Snake can run off and bair stagespike you. Make sure you just recover properly to stay safe from bair.
Be aware of mortars. Don't AD through them; they're frequently used to frame trap you into an uair or utilt. Nair/Fair can be easily used to break the mortars.
Save your jump! With no jump you lose any flexibility you have in recovering. A common, but strong, trap Snake has is to drop nades/C4/mine on the ledge then grab the ledge forcing you to DS onto the stage and get blown up when you land.
Something that is often times overlooked and completely unconsidered in many MUs is getting hit on purpose while offstage. This is especially viable vs Snake. If you're at or below stage level while recovering, letting yourself being blown up by a grenade isn't necessarily a bad thing. It gives you extra height without using your jump to allow you to be more versatile in your recovery. Just make sure you won't die from it.[/COLLAPSE]
Marth on the Ledge:
[COLLAPSE=" "]Watch out for nade/landmine on the edge of the stage. Drop off invincible fair or DS regrabbing the ledge can set off both of them.
Timing a rising AD from the ledge can be a very safe way to get back on stage. The AD catches the nade, and the explosion (while you're invincible from the AD) creates a hitbox around you to shield yourself from anything Snake would try to do.
Along a similar vein of thought, timing a normal get-up through the nade's hitbox does the same thing as a rising AD through the nade.
If you decide to jump, be wary of other explosives on platforms near you that you might land on or near.
Rising instant throw (like you do vs Diddy Kong) is another good option.
Other than that, you're Marth on the ledge... Mix it up, and stay safe.[/COLLAPSE]
Snake on the Ledge:
This section is going to be pretty boring. Snake is terrible here. He has no real options to get up.
[COLLAPSE=" "]If he jumps, juggle him.
If he drops away and cyphers, **** him offstage.
Normal get-up options lose to your normal trapping game.
I guess watch out for drop away-> jump-> B-reverse nade onto the stage?
Just do normal Marth things and you should be fine.[/COLLAPSE]
Snake's Dthrow:
Your options when Snake dthrows you are to:
Stand up, roll away from Snake, roll into Snake, use a get-up attack, and to do nothing.
[COLLAPSE=" "]If you get caught at kill percents, buffering a roll away is probably your safest option. Snake can only dash attack/ mortar slide you.
Get-up attack hits towards Snake then away from Snake. Unless they have a broken reaction time, it is unlikely that they can shield the first hit on reaction. If they predict it, and shield prior, you can get regrabbed.
Rolling behind Snake can get you ftilted (or utilted) on reaction, so it's only good if you think they're expecting a different option.
Thankfully, Marth is skinny so Snake's jab (and buffered jab) go over him.
If you delay getting up before kill percents, dair is guaranteed on you; be ready to SDI it.
Normal get-up can easily be regrabbed. Buffering a DS can work, but if it's shielded you can get uaired rather easily- platforms or not.
Normal get-up into turn around grab can work if they're expecting a get-up attack or get-up into an attack (DS, DB, dtilt, etc).[/COLLAPSE]
General:
[COLLAPSE=" "]Dash/Walk -> PS to set off mines.
When you respawn, using your invincibility to detonate the mines is a good idea. You don't want to let yourself get trapped later on.
C4 blows up on its own after 27 seconds.
Mines disappear after 25 seconds.
When Snake is using his upB, if you manage to grab him do not pummel him. He will air break and not be able to upB again. He'll have to use C4.
Make sure you can footstool him out of his C4.
C4's vertical hitbox above it is nothing special. Below it however is quite large and something to look out for.[/COLLAPSE]
Stages:
Ban: Halberd, FD, PS1
CP: BF/SV/Brinstar
[COLLAPSE=" "]Halberd's low ceiling allows for quicker utilt kills while it doesn't help you all that much since most of your kills won't becoming vertically without getting a high uair off.
FD has no platforms to compliment your juggling/platform pressure game. Also, the stage is long enough to facilitate his camping rather well.
PS1 seems to be a favorite stage among Snakes. Long stage similar to FD for camping. Most transformations favor Snake with his quick, high knockback attacks so that he can follow up with another assault.
BF's platforms make it near impossible for Snake to get back down to the main stage. Juggle him through the platforms and when he lands one, platform pressure him back into the air.
SV's moving platform permits you more mobility than on an unmoving stage so that you can retain all the benefits of being perfectly still while getting in on Snake's camping.
Brinstar is just overall an amazing stage for Marth. He has all his tricks with extended hitboxes on it and can psuedo shark on it for awhile. Vs Snake it is even better. The acid covers up or destroys some of his stage control. Since the stage layout and hazards force both characters into the air, it allows you to start juggling easier than it would have been otherwise.[/COLLAPSE]
Thanks to Mike for looking this over for me!
As always feel free to comment, disagree, etc etc. Nike, I'll add your stuff in when you get free time enough to post it.
