How to Show No Sympathy: The Community Ike Guide

[Heartstring]

new subsection added to offense, "Following up after grabbing"

kirk has that massive section on grab release stuff, you could just link to that for release

 

[Nysyarc]

new subsection added to offense, "Following up after grabbing"

Good idea, I'll just list basic info and some general tips in my moveset analysis and we can go a bit more in-depth into the pros and cons of Ike's different throws and follow-up options in that section.

By the way, just finished the analysis of Ike's Jab 1, 2 and 3 (been working on it on-and-off), I'm gonna post it in a sec to see what you think of the format I'm using.

Edit: @G.P - We'll definitely link any relevant threads, but I'd rather we put as much information as we can in the guide OP so reader's don't have to be redirected too much.

 

[Heartstring]

Good idea, I'll just list basic info and some general tips in my moveset analysis and we can go a bit more in-depth into the pros and cons of Ike's different throws and follow-up options in that section.

By the way, just finished the analysis of Ike's Jab 1, 2 and 3 (been working on it on-and-off), I'm gonna post it in a sec to see what you think of the format I'm using.

Edit: @G.P - We'll definitely link any relevant threads, but I'd rather we put as much information as we can in the guide OP so reader's don't have to be redirected too much.

yeah, it's funny because i was in the middle of finding grab release stuff myself and then i was like 'wait...hasnt kirk already done this?'
but then again, training cpu is stupid, according to that you can QD meta knight from air release XD

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Oh, I know something I could add to this guide:

The general things from each section that you should basically have memorized before ever attempting to use Ike in a tournament. :D Basically a tl;dr section of "If you go into a tournament without knowing this stuff, you're stupid."

Because lets face it: there isn't much I can add. lol At least not until I've finished testing out the various stages in Bi-weeklies.

 

[jamlosingthegame]

So you guys started a new guide? I'll read this eventually, whenever my laziness decides to stop. In advance: good job.

 

[Nysyarc]

Because lets face it: there isn't much I can add. lol At least not until I've finished testing out the various stages in Bi-weeklies.

IMO you know more about Ike than the majority of the people here, you could definitely add a lot of good stuff if you wanted to. Since you are doing that stage testing, maybe you'd like to do a rough stage guide? Doesn't have to be anything serious at first, we can all add on to it.

So you guys started a new guide? I'll read this eventually, whenever my laziness decides to stop. In advance: good job.

Thanks, it's far from being done though, so you may not want to bother reading it yet. We still have to finish rough drafts of every section and then all of us will go through and add/change things until we come to a consensus on the final guide. Feel free to contribute something if you'd like, look over the sub-sections that haven't been done yet and see if you'd like to tackle any.

 

[Heartstring]

haha, i've been running the stage discussion for the r.o.b boards, but i just can't seem to be able to relate stage stuff to ike oddly enough. if i did i would be making stuff up
i mean, this is waht i did on castle seige for them

 

[Nidtendofreak]

I could do a stage guide...except I find my opinions different from other people on several stages. Like Smashville. I can't stand it, and I think it's Ike's worse neutral. It's too small for Ike to space well with his aerials (which FD at least allows you to do, so it's useable against other characters without projectiles), the platform is both a help and a hindrance (sure, you can jump on it to avoid projectiles...but it's just going to eventually bring you closer towards the character with projectile, in a spot where Ike is probably his weakest: right above an opponent), it's just....ugh.

I can give it a stab though.

EDIT: For the stage guide in this topic: have multiple people give their short opinions/summaries on each of the current legal stages. That could work, as long as you didn't have too many people.

 

[Ussi]

people have different opinions of stages on whats good and bad because its personal preference after BF

Go ahead and get us started Niddo, we'll add our own opinions to it then come up with a general consensus .

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Meh, alright.

*pulls up word document, starts typing*

 

[Nysyarc]

Standard Moves​

Jab 1

[collapse=Hitbox Visual]

[/collapse]

Rating:
Hits on Frames 3-4
Damage: 4%

This is one of the most central moves to Ike’s entire existence. The Jab 1, or the first hit of Ike’s neutral A combo on the ground, is a fast and effective way to lead into many other attacks and set up different situations. It can be canceled into many different moves (more information on Jab Canceling further down in the guide), or simply strung into the second and third hits of the Jab combo for a good amount of damage.

You should be using Jab very often during a match against any other character in the game. Use it out of shield to punish whiffed attacks, or use it while on the offense to lead into other moves. Use it to punish air-dodges, rolls, spot-dodges, and to interrupt slow attacks. Jab can also clank with many projectiles. All the uses of the Jab combo will be gone over in much greater detail in a later section of the guide.

Jab 2

[collapse=Hitbox Visual]

[/collapse]

Rating:
Hits on Frames 3-4
Damage: 5%

The second hit of Ike’s grounded neutral A combo is slightly less useful than the first when you consider that it can’t be used first and that it cannot be interrupted as early. Still arguably the best and certainly the easiest follow-up to the first Jab, it can string into the third Jab, be canceled back into the first Jab, or strung into other attacks. Jab 2 has more horizontal range than Jab 1, and so it can be used for spacing while on the ground to some extent, since it can be ended early and is relatively safe.

Jab 3

[collapse=Hitbox Visual]

[/collapse]

Rating:
Hits on Frames 10-14
Damage: 7%

The third Jab is usually a guaranteed follow-up to the second, which makes Jab 1 to Jab 2 to Jab 3 a very safe and effective three-hit combo at any percent and against any character. Jab 3 has a lingering hitbox after Ike swings the sword, which has some use in punishing spot-dodges, but you should not use Jab 3 if you missed the opponent with Jab 1 and 2, because Jab 3 takes longer to end and so you will be more vulnerable.

Jab 3 is powerful enough that it is possible to KO with it at very high percents, or at least to get your opponents far enough off-stage to set up for an edge-guard. Following up your Jab 1 and Jab 2 with other moves like Up Tilt is a better idea for KOing at high percents, but ending with Jab 3 is good for racking damage early on.

Tilt Moves

Smash Moves

Aerial Moves

Special Moves

Throws​

That's what I have so far. I'm really liking the idea of including hitbox visual stills in collapse tags for each move. Obviously all credit goes to Kirk for the hitbox visuals and frame data, and I'll link his thread to this section when it's done. What do you guys think?

Edit: The rating is out of a total of 5 Ikes by the way, lol.

 

[Teh Brettster]

LOL I LOVE YOUR RATING SYSTEM


@ Foodies---- Since nobody else verified for you, I'll do it. Jab1 to jab1 IS indeed a true combo assuming the opponent doesn't use some nice DI to get out of it. Everything else is not true frame-wise, but still normally viable options.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

I like it so far, though the 3rd hit can be shielded by most characters like Snake's jab combo.

As for the stage summery: I'm almost through all of the MLG neutrals in the BBR recommended stage list, about to move onto the CP list and then the CP/Ban list.

 

[Nysyarc]

I like it so far, though the 3rd hit can be shielded by most characters like Snake's jab combo.

As for the stage summery: I'm almost through all of the MLG neutrals in the BBR recommended stage list, about to move onto the CP list and then the CP/Ban list.

Hmm, I'll definitely add a side note about Jab 3 potentially being shielded, but it doesn't happen very often in actual matches, especially if you hit them with Jab 1 when they're close to you and just hold A. And good stuff on the stages.

 

[Ussi]

Fair – You always want to space fair to the maximum range and FF it. If you don’t you’ll find yourself being grabbed by the likes of Sheik and Pikachu when you can actually jab them before they reach you if you FF it. Now then, avoid throwing fair out so much, it’s a situational approach. It’s easily countered by dash shield of fast runners.. . Instead you’ll find yourself using…

Nair – this may be the shortest range attack Ike has but it has the smallest landing lag of any aerial Ike has. Spacing Nair will avoid being shield grabbed in fact, maybe people tend to shield grab nair even if you space it so punish their folly attempt. Characters that cannot shield grab nair (before a jab comes out) when timed right are: ZSS, Samus, and Yoshi. Zelda and Olimar are an iffy cause you have to be frame perfect with landing nair. DK, DDD, and Charizard have a very long shieldgrabs and will grab you out of nair (DK is possible to space but it hard to do consistently in a match).

Uair- this is an unorthodox approach but the main purpose is to shield stab by hitting a character’s head which means it only works on tall/big characters. Uair will hit pretty low behind Ike in the beginning and is impossible to see coming by its animation.

Dash Shield- a very popular universal approach. Like with Projectiles, you can time a powershield for attacks too. Jab is the best option OoS doing this.

SHAD- another universal approach. Great for avoiding attacks and getting behind the foe. Remember to buffer a jab or shield.

Dash Attack - a lol surprise attack

The next are what I think could be experimented but I guess left to others to decide

Reverse SHAD- basically turning around before doing a SHAD to avoid buffering an a turnaround and to stall the SHAD

RAR bair- not too successful of an approach, but mix it up with reserve SHAD to fool people XD also note you can do a jump canceled usmash while turning around

Stuff in Yellow are probably not viable but up as an idea

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Ike Stage Choices Summery:

Excellent (5 Ikes) > Good (4 Ikes) > Average (3 Ikes) > Below Average (2 Ikes) > Poor (1 Ike)

Starter

Yoshi's Island [Brawl] (MLG Legal/Neutral)
- A fairly straight forwards, yet not as commonly played neutral stage. Often veto’d in favor of Battlefield. The Support Ghosts can be quite a help for Ike, given how limited his recovery can be at time. Highly unlikely that his recovery will be blocked by one rising. Spiking someone onto a falling Support Ghost can be a death sentence for them, as they will be forced to either tech or get up upon landing on the falling platform. Minor dip in the stage’s center can help avoid the occasional projectile by ducking, but don’t count on this. Middle Platform’s tilt both helps and hinders Ike. Stay underneath the platform to take maximum advantage of it, only jumping up to avoid projectiles. Platform allows a little bit of aethersliding. Warning: blast off glitch can occur on left side of the stage. Overall opinion of the stage: Average

Battlefield (MLG Legal/Neutral)
- Ike’s best neutral, particularly in a typical 5 neutral stage list. Slants on the stage allow for sliding up the sides during recovery. Stationary platforms are excellent for dodging projectiles, and punishing those above on said platforms. Overall opinion of the stage: Excellent

Smashville (MLG Legal/Neutral)
- Not a good choice for Ike. Too small to properly space with aerials. Platform both helps and hinders Ike by allowing him to avoid projectiles, but will eventually carry him back towards his attack, with him in the worse possible spot to approach from: right above. Many other characters can control this stage better. The platform will rarely aid Ike in recovery, though the stage does have sloped sides. Overall opinion of the stage: Poor

Final Destination (MLG Legal/Neutral)
- No platforms is a gamble for Ike. When against those with no projectiles/very short range projectiles, it allows Ike to perfectly space the opponent with his superior range. However, against those with projectiles or a chaingrab, Ike will get camped to death. Lip can be a problem during recovery for those inexperienced. Overall opinion of the stage: Below Average



Starter/Counter

Lylat Cruise (MLG Legal/Neutral)
- Essentially a tilting Battlefield, with the middle platform lower down. Plays fairly similarly. Easy to punish people on the platforms. Tilting is rarely an issue when recovering with Aether, can be a serious problem if attempting to use Quickdraw. Warning: Blastoff glitch can occur, depending of the tilt of the stage at the time of landing. Overall opinion of the stage: Good

Halberd (MLG Legal/Neutral)
- A low ceiling means Ike should focus on landing Utilt out of jab if he wants an early KO. Sharking on the moving parts of the stage is both good and bad for Ike, depending on the opponent. Low platform is good for punishing from below. Slants allow for minimal aethersliding. The Claw and the Cannon bomb can be countered. Laser hits too rapidly to be countered, but can be easily SDI’d. Ship portion of the stage has slopes to slide up while recovering to an extent. Overall opinion of the stage: Good

Pokémon Stadium 1 (MLG Legal/Neutral)
- Arguably Ike’s second best neutral choice. Neutral stage has platforms to utilize. Various other stages have objects to avoid projectiles with, or walls to use Ike’s Fthrow infinity with. Windmill can be used to punished missed techs. Camera angle can cause the lips of the stage to be hard to navigate for those inexperienced. Nothing really hinders Ike here, unless facing another character with a wall infinity. Overall opinion of the stage: Excellent

Castle Siege (MLG Legal/Neutral)
- Ike’s shared home stage is a safe bet to use. First part is a bit on the small side with awkward lips on the stage ledges, but has an aetherslide slope and easy to punish platforms. Second stage has a walk-off, but two statues to extend the time your hitboxes are out by hitting them (Mr.Doom can use these particularly well, but you will have to figure it out on your own), and various platforms to punish. Third stage is a tilting Final Destination, which removes some of the projectile problems, and has slopes to slide up when recovering to some extent. Overall opinion of the stage: Excellent



Counter

Delfino Plaza (MLG Legal)
- A stage where Ike is surprisingly effective. The neutral stage has various platforms to punish, but also has sharking which can both help and hurt Ike. Several of the landing zones have walk-offs. During the water landing zones, Ike can use aether to force the opponent underwater, pop up first, and then hit them with Dair as they are surfacing. Overall opinion of the stage: Good

Brinstar (MLG Legal)
- A small stage that manages not to have the same problem as Smashville for Ike. Several platforms to punish with. Part of the floor and two pillars are there to extend your hitboxes on. Sharking is possible, but not common. Very important to learn how to take advantage of the acid, both for ranking up damage and recovering. Very small blastzones all around. Overall opinion of the stage: Excellent

Frigate Orpheon (MLG Legal)
- The ledgeless side of this stage can completely kill Ike. This should almost always be your banned stage. While the platforms are nice to punish from, too many characters can take advantage of Ike’s poor recovery with the one side. Flipping of the stage is both a blessing and a curse. If you aren’t careful, it can send you into an awkward position, or can even kill you in remote cases. Overall opinion of the stage: Poor

Rainbow Cruise (MLG Legal)
- Often thought by uneducated people to be a terrible stage for Ike, it’s actually not bad at all. The ship allows for some wall infinitying, and the movement can help stop constant projectile bombardment. A low ceiling at the top means very quick vertical KOs for part of the ride. If Ike has the superior air game, he will have a serious advantage. However, the reverse is also in affect here. Takes lots of studying to figure out how to safely navigate this stage with Ike’s poor recovery. Overall opinion of the stage: Average

Jungle Japes
- Another stage that people often believe is terrible for Ike. Those people are mistaken. While the water can be a problem, particularly on the left side of the stage, the rest of the stage offers itself quite nicely to Ike’s playstyle. It takes quite a while to get used to though. Projectiles can be a problem here, depending on the character. Vertical KOs are extremely rare here. Quickdraw is quite usable here for some platform tricks with some practice, such as going underneath the side platforms and grabbing the ledge on the other side. Overall opinion of the stage: Average

Pirate Ship
- A rarely used stage, which is arguably Ike’s best CP. Lots of water to abuse and spike with. Cannonballs to counter. Platforms to use. Wind stage to harass less agile foes with. Too bad you’ll never get to use it against a smart opponent. Overall opinion of the stage: Excellent

PictoChat (MLG Legal)
- A very odd stage that takes a lot of practice to get used to. None of the transformations really hurt Ike, and several of them are useful. Too much effort to go in depth with the transformations: just spend some time studying this stage, and then take advantage of your opponent’s crying because he hasn’t done the same. Prepare yourself for “BAAAAAAAAAW, SUCH A STUPID STAGE!” johns. Overall opinion of the stage: Good

Pokémon Stadium 2 (MLG Legal)
- Another rarely used, yet perfectly usable stage for Ike that will result with “stupid stage” johns. Neutral stage is just like Pokemon Stadium 1’s, treat it as such. Wind stage allows for domination of those who don’t have air games, and the ability to quickly go back to the ground using aether. Rock stage allows for a smaller wall infinity and platform punishment. Ice stage allows for sliding shenanigans used both for and against Ike’s favor. Electric stage is a serious pain in the rear, even with studying the stage. Use it as a pocket CP against those who refuse to play on more then 7 stages they are comfortable on. Overall opinion of the stage: Average


Counter/Banned

Norfair (MLG Legal)
- Ike’s Quickdraw heaven. There are so many different paths Ike can take thanks to his normally limiting, linear recovery system. Ike is able to hide in the lava by using Counter -> Shield -> Counter, and it doesn’t count as stalling as you can still hit him with certain projectiles. (Might wanna double check with the host first to make sure he understands it fully and doesn’t call you out for stalling). Platform punishment heaven. Camp the bottom, fly around the upper area with QD. Combo into the lava with moves such as Bair. Listen to your opponent throw a hissy fit afterwards because he didn’t realize that Ike is amazing and mobile on Norfair. Study this stage to figure out all of the stuff you can do. Prince of stage johns. Overall opinion of the stage: Excellent

Luigi's Mansion
- Basically never used anymore. No opinion on it.

Distant Planet
- Basically never used anymore. No opinion on it.

Green Greens (MLG Legal)
- A very small stage where Ike can actually camp somewhat! Abuse the fact you can safely hit the bomb blocks, and use the normal blocks to length the time of your hitboxes. Or to block projectiles with. Use the apples to recover HP with, to DACIT with, or if you’re extremely lucky: blow up your opponent with. KO in any direction you wish. Abuse the two platforms. You should almost never be gimped here. Just be aware of falling bomb blocks. King of stage johns. Overall opinion of the stage: Excellent

Yoshi's Island [Melee]
- Basically never used anymore. No opinion on it.

Port Town Aero Dive
- Basically never used anymore. No opinion on it. Warning: Blastoff glitch can occur here, on the central node that pops up for one of the stop zones.


Fear my and my ability to create a mini-guide out of nowhere! Fear it!

 

[theeboredone]

I know this is more of a match up thing, but adding what stages are good for Ike against "X" opponent should also be tossed in. Especially for ones that might give a significant advantage to the opponent. One example would be that Sonic's spin dash move gives him invincibility frames on stages like Yoshi's Island or Pictochat. You don't have to mention the reason on why you shouldn't take an opponent there, but just have a list of characters to not play there.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Eh, then people will want to know why though. >_> And honestly, I don't know/remember all of the various character shenanigans. Nys's call.

 

[Ussi]

I like bored's idea, we can make this include a good stage guide, i'll look up good stages for other characters

 

[Nysyarc]

Stage Guide

Very nice list, I'll have some things to add once I finish with the moveset. There's only a few of your ratings that I kind of disagree with, mostly Frigate Orpheon and Smashville. But as I said we'll all discuss it and come to a consensus. Definitely a nice start and some good information in there.

And I agree that adding specific character advantages/disadvantages is a good idea. Nobody should really be too curious as to why certain stages are good/bad for certain characters, and if they are we can explain. Most players will just want to know generally where they should CP other characters, so it's a great idea.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

I freaking hate smashville. >_> And there is nothing that redeems Frigate Orpheon for Ike due to that stupid ledge.

 

[Nysyarc]

I freaking hate smashville. >_> And there is nothing that redeems Frigate Orpheon for Ike due to that stupid ledge.

Lol, well I've been experimenting CPing Frigate against a myriad of characters and players, and I have to disagree, but I'll add my input once I'm done with the moveset analysis.

 

[Iofsauron]

Lol, well I've been experimenting CPing Frigate against a myriad of characters and players, and I have to disagree, but I'll add my input once I'm done with the moveset analysis.

Frigate is a good spiking place for Ike, Nysyarc showed me in the Bi weeklies

 

[AN(M)ist]

Wiimote + Nunchuk​

To all the users who do not use a gamecube controller, it is highly recommended that they attach a nunchuk (or a classic controller, which would be explained later) to their wiimote as it greatly increases action and survival rate by facilitating successive inputs and enhancing advanced tactics like SDI.

By default, the configuration of Wiimote & nunchuk has certain moves repeated in its settings (as seen here). This configuration may seem favorable; however, due to a limited number of buttons, it is wise to assign only one button for a specific command.

Of the various commands that the controller can be assigned to, setting the D-pad buttons of the wiimote to their respective smash commands (as seen here) is arguably the most beneficial as it works similar to the c-stick of a gamecube controller. However, if you have good practice with the shake smash feature (explained below), then it compensates for this configuration and having any different configuration setting won’t affect the advanced tactics.

Before going onto Wiimote&Nunchuk advanced tactics, there are a few features that are worth noting:

1) Tap jump: This feature allows you to jump by pushing the analog stick upward, thereby removing the necessity of having a separate button to jump. This totally depends on your preference. Setting this to ON will favor the cancelling of meteor smashes and execution of certain OoS options while setting it to OFF will favor attacks like uptilt.

2) Shake smash: This feature is identical to the c-stick of a gamecube controller, but requires you to be precise in the direction you are shaking and also keep your hand steady in order to avoid unnecessary command inputs. Again, this depends entirely on your preference. Setting this to ON will allow you to quickly carry out desired smash attack by simply shaking the wiimote in that direction (eg. For upsmash you have to shake the wiimote upwards) while setting it to OFF will remove the risk of unnecessary inputs.

Advanced Tactics using Wiimote&Nunchuk

1) Directional Influence (aka DI): For buffering a DI during a successful smash by an opponent, you are required to hold the analog stick in the perpendicular direction which is closest to the upper corner of the screen. The timing is the same as in gamecube controller – anticipating an attack and, prior to being hit, aiming towards the closest screen corner by moving the analog stick in the perpendicular direction (with practice, it becomes fairly obvious which move your opponent is going to use on you for a kill what the angle of you’re knockback will be). DI also helps in getting out of combos, in which case your DI should be aimed at getting away from the opponent and not at the screen corner. (Pictorial reference here)

2) Smash Directional Influence (aka SDI): There are 2 important things to keep in mind about SDI which separates it from normal DI. (a) SDI can only occur during the frames of hitlag (you’re character’s lingering effect most clearly seen when struck by a powerful blow) and (b) you have to repeatedly tap in the opposite direction of knockback rather than holding perpendicular to it. SDI literally shifts the position of you’re character in the direction you are tapping. If you’re controls are not set according to the preferred configuration, then repeatedly tapping the analog stick in the opposite direction during the hitlag will buffer the SDI. Unfortunately, this conflicts with you’re normal DI and will therefore contribute much less to you’re survival. Now, if you’re controls are set according to the preferred configuration, then repeatedly tapping the D-pad in the opposite direction (aka Tap Directional Influence or TDI) of the blow and holding the analog stick towards the closest upper screen corner will buffer both you’re SDI and DI and thereby save you’re stock for a noticeably longer time. As is the case with normal DI, SDI can also be used to evade combos (Refer to Mr. Doom’s DI for example). NOTE: If you also have the shake smash feature set to ON, then TDI can be done by both repeatedly shaking the wiimote and tapping the D-pad in the opposite direction. This will boost you’re SDI to a greater extent and not interfere with you’re normal DI. Though this may be very useful, it must be kept in mind that precision matters the most in shaking the wiimote and shaking in the wrong direction can lessen you’re chance of survival. (Pictorial reference here)

3) Reverse Aerial Rush (aka RAR): To put simply, this means running in one direction, and jumping with you’re back facing the direction you were running. This tactics comes in handy for Ike since he has a strong and fast bair and is much simpler than the previous two. Regardless of you’re control configuration, RAR requires 2 inputs to be done in quick succession. Push you’re analog stick to run in a direction, tap it in the opposite direction followed by a tap jump. This position is considered as RAR and you can follow up with an immediate bair or any other move.

 

[Nysyarc]

Wiimote + Nunchuk​

Very nice! I don't even think it needs too much else but if you're planning on adding more just post again here and I'll add it to the OP as well. This is all coming together very well so far, and it's only day one.

 

[theeboredone]

Longest first post ever. Ussi, you should edit those posts to be hidden so it doesn't take forever to scroll. Just click on what you want, and it opens.

 

[Nysyarc]

Well, to be fair, once the guide is completed we probably won't have everything in collapse tags anyways, so it'll be a long OP. But I guess for now it's a good idea for the sake of tidiness until we get everything finalized.

Edit: Okay, that's all done. Ussi and I will use collapse tags to put new stuff in for now. That actually was a great idea Bored, cause now we can more easily see what sections still need to get done.

 

[Ussi]

I went and collapsed the old stuff, i labeled each one with the person who submitted it

 

[san.]

@san interception is attacking back the foe whose trying to edgeguard you. You did mention thAt though lol :x

I remember typing about this a long time ago. Meh I'll still write somethin.

Interception

Ike has range, and a lot of it. Therefore, Ike does not need to go far from the stage in order to edgeguard. MK is immune to most of these. Against MK, one must rely on well timed bair and uair(facing away)

1. When you and the opponent are in the air, above the stage

Best move: full hop fair
Mixups: bair, uair

If the opponent is in the air above the stage, you can safely full hop + fair most characters in the game. Well spaced, all they can do is avoid it or air dodge. If they air dodge and not fast fall a well spaced fair, you can fast fall at the end, land, and punish the air dodge with jabs or a grab. Bair can be used as long as the second jump is retreating. Uair can be used as long as you're facing away from the opponent. You can full hop and fast fall all these aerials.

2. When you're on land, on the edge of the stage, opponent above.

Best moves: jab, ftilt, dash attack
Mixups: hop+eruption, retreating aerials

Ftilt is one of the best moves you can do near the ledge because of its amazing range, as well as its ability to be tilted in 3 directions, upwards, straight, and downwards. Not many characters have options to it other than to get away, especially when timed/spaced correctly. Jab is useful just for the amount of hurt the opponent will be in if he gets hit. If he gets hit, then you can time many more jabs until they eventually escape, possibly ending with the full jab combo.

I added dash attack for its ability to be used from a variety of distances away from the ledge. It's range covers half of BF, which is amazing. This is used to punish opponents who get too close to the ledge, within dash attack's range. This makes it effective to punish people who like to hop from the ledge. It also hits some of the cast while they hang on the ledge. If you hit with dash attack, it's not hard to follow up with downwards ftilt or a walk off aerial.

Double jump + eruption is a cool mixup if you think they're trying to get onstage as much as possible. It's safer in this situation because they can't punish as well if you miss. Jumping covers more area, so it's hard for opponents to go above you. Retreated aerials also work fairly well in this respect, since you have very small risk and a nice reward, where they usually get knocked offstage. If they shield near the edge, almost all of your moves will knock them away again.

3. Opponent is below stage-level

Best moves:
On land: quickly grab the ledge, walk off dair, spaced aerials. Dash attack(falco)
In the air(with double jump): any aerial to your discretion. Dair and fair usually work best.

Most of the time, if you feel you can grab the edge and get an advantage (the opponent has to go to the stage or he gets gimped), simply grabbing the edge is your best bet. if they land on stage, it's your chance to hit them with any aerial, if you can. If you grab the ledge, and quickly let go, you still have invinciblity for a short time, allowing you to drop and reverse aether if it seems appropriate.

Against falco, dash attack is a viable move to use here, because it messes up his double jump a lot if he jumps from underneath the stage.

If you have attack stick, walk off dair with cstick is not bad. If you time it well, yet miss, you can still aether to either the ledge or the stage. Walk off dair, you can easily get a spike, or the non sweet spot hit because of its long disjoint. If you walk off and fair, you have no choice but to grab the ledge, so if you miss, it's VERY dangerous.

 

[Teh Brettster]

San, do you remember that huge, detailed post you made several months (maybe even a year) ago concerning all the uses for Nair?

That was one of my favorite posts ever. If we could find it and where it was, I believe it should be included in this guide.

 

[Ussi]

@San i removed the idea of interception cause my idea of it falls under "preventing the edgeguard" so i'll throw what you wrote into edgeguarding instead.

@Brett: Is this the post?

I like it because it's our most useful spacing tool. 95% of it you know, but I hope I can provide that extra 5%. Massive tl;dr. I'll just color useful parts

It's range is just about as long as marth's fair, so not many characters can out-range it. This means that not many characters at all can directly challenge Ike's nair. Unlike Marth's fair, Ike's nair goes just about all the way around him, making Ike pretty safe against people trying to juggle you if you're fully retreating away.

If you face away from your opponent and nair, if you time it right by landing while the hitbox is behind you while still retreating, he can't punish it. Just whipping out nair while your opponent is chasing you is effective on most of the cast.

Kimchi told me how you can full hop + nair onto ledges, which is pretty useful. Also, on irregular surfaces, fast-falling an nair the correct way could give you a slide, which is pretty funny. Useful on brinstar, for example.

I made a post a while back about juggling with nair. The hitbox hitbox starts above you, which is a useful place to start, so you can follow opponents through their entire dodge animation. Nair can be used as a frame trap in order to get past opponent's air dodges. It works wonders on characters like snake and wario, mixing up between nair and jab. Since many characters can't directly challenge nair, they try to get around it, but they can't really air dodge, either. Ike can also fast fall the nair in order to jab or grab or shield opponents who are still in the air.

The best thing about nair is that it pays off to get a hit with it. On heavies, jab after nair is effective, but doesn't work quite so well on light characters with quick aerials. Back air after nair is pretty cool when it happens, but be wary of danger if you miss, so know when to retreat your bair or not. When I'm feeling daring, I dash + charge an upsmash and wait for the air dodge. Against characters who don't have quick and fast aerials to get away, might as well do another nair.

The attack I do most after nair is just uptilt, since I'm not usually in danger if I miss. On stages like battlefield, it could lead to you getting loads of damage from them landing on platforms. I may follow up with an aerial pivot grab, or upsmash.

The good thing about getting characters caught in nair, is that if they lose or just don't have their second jump, It's an easy pivot grab-->backthrow+dash attack.

In combintion with Ike's other moves such as jab nair provides us with plenty of mixups as well as a decent close quarters defense.

Also, tips on Diddy's nanas and Snake's nades from anyone would be nice.

if you guys feel there are other projectiles worth noting to know very well to get around post them too

 

[san.]

I make a lot of really long, random posts on Ashunera's, lol. I tend to overthink when I talk about stuff like this, though.

 

[Teh Brettster]

That's exactly the post. Good work, Ussi.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

For Snake's nade: get as good as the Snake at knowing how long the grenades have been out. I find it goes like this: One-onethousand, two-onethousand, three-onethousand, four-onethousanBOOM. You have to figure out your own timing though, and be able to keep track of two nades + Snake himself.

Diddy Kong is a bit harder, and generally a bit more dependent on the stage.

 

[AN(M)ist]

hey, I can't post attachments from my computer into my reply... what rank do I need to be???

Man,, i made some good pictorial references for my section & i really want to upload them....

 

[san.]

For Snake's nade: get as good as the Snake at knowing how long the grenades have been out. I find it goes like this: One-onethousand, two-onethousand, three-onethousand, four-onethousanBOOM. You have to figure out your own timing though, and be able to keep track of two nades + Snake himself.

Diddy Kong is a bit harder, and generally a bit more dependent on the stage.

Translation: Snake's nade lasts for 4 seconds. I find it easiest to instathrow towards snake just to give him some problems. Ike can insta throw from the ground. (Jump +throw instantly). Pressuring snake's shield and spacing with long range and quick intercepts are good ideas (spacing yourself so you don't hit any nades)

 

[Nidtendofreak]

I prefer to PS them, because I don't have to tech skill to instathrow. >_>

 

[Nysyarc]

hey, I can't post attachments from my computer into my reply... what rank do I need to be???

Man,, i made some good pictorial references for my section & i really want to upload them....

Upload them to a file hosting site like imageshack.us or tinypic.com and then take the link it gives you and wrap that in the IMG tags. I don't think it's otherwise possible to upload an image straight from your computer to the forums... except maybe for avatars.

 

[-RedX-]

Ike (Red-X) vs. C. Falcon (Acedude):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQHp2FPRpos
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgtSvyUwwBQ

Ike (Red-X) vs. Sonic (Wes):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZMS-2eJWbY&feature=related

Dub Ike (Red-X and Ryko) vs Dub Snake (Fatal and Bizkit):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xhnP2iBpyQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9X8699Mj94

 

[theeboredone]

Hey look, it's Red-X before he started stinking it up.