Swagic
Smash Journeyman
The best part is that it worked.
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Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread
- Thread starter Linguini
- Start date
Linguini
Smash Master
I
Vs n0ne pretty sure falcon is always going to have control as ganon has to react to his approaches. Those matches were ****ing sick tho.!we both got some crazy edgeguards. Got him with a wall tech double fair offstage kill at like 50
Got 33rd which is pretty mediocre imo. CEO was fun even though the tourney itself was terrible lol. Played maddd friendlies last night till like 6 with none and s2j those dudes are great
I agree that I was playing the matchup sloppy. My di was fine though. I go fox vs sheik but stayed ganon because he wanted to fix ditto. I def coulda won game 1 and then got grabbed too much game 2.
Vs n0ne pretty sure falcon is always going to have control as ganon has to react to his approaches. Those matches were ****ing sick tho.!we both got some crazy edgeguards. Got him with a wall tech double fair offstage kill at like 50
Got 33rd which is pretty mediocre imo. CEO was fun even though the tourney itself was terrible lol. Played maddd friendlies last night till like 6 with none and s2j those dudes are great
-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
Lol I would've MM'd n0ne in dittos in a heartbeat had I gone. Have to save money tho.
Glennwood
Smash Cadet
I have that issue. I know I'm sandbagging sometimes and just can't help it. Depends on my mood, and who I'm playing. Some people I love the salt but if its someone I'm alright with or on good terms then I hate just running over them.
Divinokage
Smash Legend
Ya im happy you said that because 25th or 33rd at majors has been enough already! Gotta use alts vs certain players 100% in order to break the Ganon curse at nationals.
Diosama
Stand User
Tbqh the cg is not much more difficult. The hard part is around 50%, the first regrab in that range is always a *****. People perceive the chaingrab being easier for sheik bc sheik just has a much easier time getting the first initial grab.
So basically just **** em, not your fault he sucks. Maybe he should try to understand that the mu isn't free if he doesn't know **** about it
-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
At 50% either character is getting regrabbed by any opponent that's practiced a bit.
60% if either are partial DI'ing it's time to start thinking about ending the cg
60% if either are partial DI'ing it's time to start thinking about ending the cg
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-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
I know the magus bible says guaranteed to 90%, but either that's pixel perfect impractical or it's wrong at certain partial DI's, I uair or bair at that point. If they are full DI'ing sure 85% them.
Vs sheik's cg I go so close to straight up they have trouble deciding which side and normally get out (they usually utilt me).
Vs sheik's cg I go so close to straight up they have trouble deciding which side and normally get out (they usually utilt me).
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Krusteaz
Smash Apprentice
Would it be smart to counter pick a chaingrab happy Sheik to FoD? Or is the payoff not worth it on that stage
-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
Hard to say.
https://youtu.be/sJviVpv2sH8
Just play like that LOL.
Honestly I don't think fountain is a good stage. Unless you suck at neutral and kick ass at punishing. Depends on the sheik.
Krusteaz
Smash Apprentice
Some guy at a local monthly has the lamest Sheik I've ever seen
Says he whips it out just for Ganon, mains Fox
LOL might just have to check out Fountain
-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
Lol **** fountain. Battlefield that *****
X WaNtEd X
Smash Lord
If you are really good at shield dropping, I think fountain is the **** in some matchups because you can base your movement around it and it's just a slightly bigger Yoshi's after the awkward plats. But if you don't have it down, just wavelanding around is pretty awkward, making it hard to really hold stage at key moments.
Speaking of stages, I found a great way to get Yoshi's on your counterpick in doubles. I told my teammate just loud enough for the other team to hear after we lost game 2 that I thought a bigger stage would be better. So of course, the other team bans DL. Get the Yoshi's CP and get to take the set from there. Baited.
Speaking of stages, I found a great way to get Yoshi's on your counterpick in doubles. I told my teammate just loud enough for the other team to hear after we lost game 2 that I thought a bigger stage would be better. So of course, the other team bans DL. Get the Yoshi's CP and get to take the set from there. Baited.
-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
I personally prefer final fountain of yoshi stadiumfield 64.
Divinokage
Smash Legend
Speaking of shield drops, i think Ganon is ass at doing it because everytime i tried to bait them to hit my shield i get shield stabbed 100% of the time. Its very annoying even by tilting my shield downwards made no difference.
PseudoTurtle
Smash Champion
Vs which character kage? i find it to be very useful vs falco and falcon. It's ok vs marth, but basically only vs fsmash. Up tilt will still poke that **** all day lol.
Dave I like fountain a lot vs sheik. Just personal preference I guess. I also don't mind stadium in that mu for whatever reason, probably the low ceiling.
Dave I like fountain a lot vs sheik. Just personal preference I guess. I also don't mind stadium in that mu for whatever reason, probably the low ceiling.
Diosama
Stand User
I like to take spacies to fountain since players ban yoshis at my level
I think it's a great stage for ganon since most of our kos come from edgeguards or other means of horizontal ko, and it's practically the same size. The higher ceiling is also a big plus. Yeah platforms can **** you over but they do just as badly for your opponent. Just be smart about wavelanding, maybe use the dash more.
I think it's a great stage for ganon since most of our kos come from edgeguards or other means of horizontal ko, and it's practically the same size. The higher ceiling is also a big plus. Yeah platforms can **** you over but they do just as badly for your opponent. Just be smart about wavelanding, maybe use the dash more.
Divinokage
Smash Legend
Falcon can easily just wait at the right time and uair. Smart Falcos will uair your feet or bair. Fox also i couldnt find the opportunity. Im also not using the press down method for Ganon, it might be the only reliable one. I havent found a moment where someone would attack me on a platform where i can shield the exact frame the move would hit. They usually just wait but then your shield is even more exposed. If i do it anyway i get stuffed all the time too from below.
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Swagic
Smash Journeyman
I only shield drop when they're above me. If they're below, it's not safe because Ganon can't put out hitboxes below him fast enough. But if you're stuck in shield and they approach from above, it's great for getting out and leaving a hitbox behind you.
But then again, I'm not the master.
But then again, I'm not the master.
RedmanSSBM
Improving My Process
You really should only be shielding on a side platform in anticipation of getting hit on the side platform. You can react to your opponent doing nothing and shield drop, wavedash out of shield, or just full hop out of shield to get away from them. You can do this the first time or two, and then if you think they will read your jump out of shield, you can just mix it up lol. It's all situation dependent.
Linguini
Smash Master
Looks like me vs n0ne got recorded. ****ty phone quality but still lol. Will post when my friend uploads it
-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
The ****? You're just holding shield in neutral then, letting it shrink too much. Being able to dash and instantly stop uair or fair someone is ****ing awesome.
Linguini
Smash Master
Idk shielddrop upair is pretty damn fast. Also shieldrop bair through the top plat is really good. I'm trash at shieldropping though lol. It's just a really awkward movement for me lol
Oh well at least i've finally mastered wavedash oos with ganon. So good
Swagic
Smash Journeyman
Thank you, SFL, for making me search for "Linguini vs Pork Chops" and getting cooking videos on YouTube.
Divinokage
Smash Legend
That strat isn't 100% safe, you'd have to shield drop to stuff an incoming approach before they are completely below you if not it you'll get hit by a quicker aerial. I'm saying there's almost no way someone will hit your shield as soon as you input in order for you to get that perfect reversal, the situation that happens instead is the shield stabbing. The number of times i got punished for it is quite a lot actually, so instead I would jump and downair them OOS before they are able to shield stab me, sometimes that works. Also, of course that light shield mix up should be used on platforms as well just make sure you aren't pressing a button at the wrong range.
As for the top platform, can't Fox/Falcon fall faster than Ganon as they hit your shield with uair before you're able to get them with your own uair or bair? Having a good shield drop game seems extremely situational actually..
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Linguini
Smash Master
Me vs n0ne.....holy **** these matches are like a heavyweight fist fight LOL
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6Unx_BbLP0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6Unx_BbLP0
-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
Well it sounded like you were (and maybe still are) writing off ALL shield dropping with Ganon as unuseful, and the example I provided was actually a running shield drop (shai drop), which is good, I don't care what anyone says. It's like running off the platform and uair'ing but you can literally drop whenever you want, not just at the end of the platform. As for normal reversals, look at linguini vs n0ne at 2:20. The way n0ne uses shield drop uair there is how Ganon would use it. You just have to pay attention because they can hit your shield and space themself out of range of your uair if they know you're about to shield drop. But in that case you can drop into ftilt, dd, whatever you please. Top platform is going to be more situational, especially on BF/DL but you can still surprise people with running shield drops... spider_sense caught Blea with a dash shield drop fair into dair on that fastest stocks ever video (top platform YS). Shield drops are also the only way to drop quickly after an auto cancelled aerial on a plat, and the fastest way to drop period. I'd keep messing with it.
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RedmanSSBM
Improving My Process
Dang man. So many missed edgeguards that could have been really easy with upair. If only Tipman had his hands on your controller during those moments lol.
Linguini
Smash Master
Woulda coulda shoulda lol. Just enjoy the match for what it is. N0ne beat me fair and square!
-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
I was just thinking about "top 20" players that have lost to Ganon...
Kage over mango
Kage over westballz
Kage over sfat
Bizz over MacD
Bizz over s2j
Linguini over MacD
Linguini over Axe
N0ne over hugs (technically he used falcon in the beginning, but he showed in those MM's he can do it with Ganon)
What am I missing? I bet bizz has a few wins from locals I don't know about. Pretty sure linguini has beat ppmd in a mm before but always fell a hit or 2 short of winning in tournament.
I know kage took out shroomed and linguini took out m2k in crew battles but I'm more interested in tournament, and to a lesser extent mm's.
Kage over mango
Kage over westballz
Kage over sfat
Bizz over MacD
Bizz over s2j
Linguini over MacD
Linguini over Axe
N0ne over hugs (technically he used falcon in the beginning, but he showed in those MM's he can do it with Ganon)
What am I missing? I bet bizz has a few wins from locals I don't know about. Pretty sure linguini has beat ppmd in a mm before but always fell a hit or 2 short of winning in tournament.
I know kage took out shroomed and linguini took out m2k in crew battles but I'm more interested in tournament, and to a lesser extent mm's.
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PseudoTurtle
Smash Champion
Eikelmann over n0ne last evo
kage over hax (falcon) - ROM 4(?)
kage over hax (falcon) - FC
Kage over axe - FC
Linguini that set was ****ing sick. That double fair rockcrock thoooooooooo
kage over hax (falcon) - ROM 4(?)
kage over hax (falcon) - FC
Kage over axe - FC
Linguini that set was ****ing sick. That double fair rockcrock thoooooooooo
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-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
N0ne isn't top 20 but the win was still impressive.
We didn't have rankings in the days of hax falcon (did we?) but those are also great wins
We didn't have rankings in the days of hax falcon (did we?) but those are also great wins
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PseudoTurtle
Smash Champion
I'm including n0ne because he's on the cusp of top 20 imo, and yea still and impressive win. Though I'm not sure he was at that level last evo.
We didn't have official rankings back then, but hax was generally considered a top 10 player - and what's more impressive is that kage had the back to back wins. Both of those sets were absolutely sick too. Same with when linguini beat axe; no official ranking, but axe was probably considered top 20 by most back then (just a little before my time, gotta fact check).
We didn't have official rankings back then, but hax was generally considered a top 10 player - and what's more impressive is that kage had the back to back wins. Both of those sets were absolutely sick too. Same with when linguini beat axe; no official ranking, but axe was probably considered top 20 by most back then (just a little before my time, gotta fact check).
-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
Yeah honestly n0ne would've been ranked higher without the loss to Ian
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RedmanSSBM
Improving My Process
Bizz has beaten Fly Amanita on multiple occasions. Dunno if you consider Fly to be a Top 20 player at the time.
X WaNtEd X
Smash Lord
When I talk about using shield drops as movement, I mean also doing things like shield/shai drop into wl. Or just using the shield to stop your momentum on a platform to position yourself more accurately to drop an aerial. It's faster and more precise than a isai drop or just wl on a platform into dropping an aerial, something I see Kage and pretty much every Ganon do a lot. It's like an l cancel for a plat drop.
From a defensive standpoint, you don't have to wait until your shield is low to do a shield drop uair. As soon as you see you are getting a low shield or that your opponent is going to wait for it, you can just select a different option. But yeah, a lot of pressure straight up beats shield drop uair. But you can do things like bait out an attack on your hard shield, and then lightly press the other shoulder button to immediately light shield while they have already committed to an attack. You could do this to get hit off a platform and then uair as you're falling. And then if they start doing things to catch that, shield drop uair suddenly becomes safe again. You could even do this the opposite way, but it'd be harder because your regular shield might be too small. Or you could just options select between reactively shield drop uairing bad pressure and buffering a roll once you see they will do pressure shield drop uair won't work against.
Is there something I'm missing here? It sounds like it's a decent option to me but can be used poorly, just like any other option. I suppose with the logic being used here we should never ledgedash because it isn't fully invincible and can get stuffed from certain spacing.
From a defensive standpoint, you don't have to wait until your shield is low to do a shield drop uair. As soon as you see you are getting a low shield or that your opponent is going to wait for it, you can just select a different option. But yeah, a lot of pressure straight up beats shield drop uair. But you can do things like bait out an attack on your hard shield, and then lightly press the other shoulder button to immediately light shield while they have already committed to an attack. You could do this to get hit off a platform and then uair as you're falling. And then if they start doing things to catch that, shield drop uair suddenly becomes safe again. You could even do this the opposite way, but it'd be harder because your regular shield might be too small. Or you could just options select between reactively shield drop uairing bad pressure and buffering a roll once you see they will do pressure shield drop uair won't work against.
Is there something I'm missing here? It sounds like it's a decent option to me but can be used poorly, just like any other option. I suppose with the logic being used here we should never ledgedash because it isn't fully invincible and can get stuffed from certain spacing.
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Divinokage
Smash Legend
No but Hax was definitely the best Falcon back then. He was consistently making top 5. Ive beaten old legends before like Azen, kdj, chudat. Also Jman, Lucky, SW, Darc.
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RedmanSSBM
Improving My Process
I think I'm gonna analyze Linguini vs MacD on my stream soon.
Swagic
Smash Journeyman
Ink that, por favor. Unless MacD was playing like ****, there might be a lot of good matchup stuff there.