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Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

G. Vice

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 15, 2007
Messages
1,156
Location
Arkansas
Alright guys, I've gotten to the point of utter frustration with Marth. I don't know WHY I can't beat this character! No matter who it is I play. We have a Marth player here but he makes alot of terrible decisions during play and I think it's gotten me worse at the matchup. I played Dark Sonic; I didn't know how to approach, what to space, when capitalize a mistake, how to tolerate his fair, fsmash and dash dancing bait to grabs and more importantly matchups. Needless to say, I took a match off him, but got utterly destroyed my 3rd stock and I feel like he's not beyond my level, he just has a way better understanding of the matchup than I do...I've talked to Linguini about it and he says I just have to bair alot more and choose how I use my jumps. But my problems with Marth stem from not knowing the matchup at all. So guys, any advice start to finish vs Marth? Linguini and Kage your advice would be greatly appreciated.
Personally, I like the marth matchup. The key to beating Marth in my eyes is patience. It's like, he's right there and you just wanna hit the guy, but if you rush it, then he's got you. That's what he's wanting you to do.

Delays. I don't know how to explain it well. But you gotta get close enough for him to commit to an attack: FAir, FSmash, NAir...and you still have to be spacing good enough for him to miss, and sneak in a Bair, Uair, or FAir, Ftilt...something. Like, jump at him, almost come within his range, when you know he's gonna forward smash/air, and then use your double CAREFULLY, spacing in mind, and after baiting his attack, counter it.

In this matchup, ganon has to counter marth. Marth has quicker aerials, a tipper, super easy edgeguards vs Ganon, and he combos Ganon easily, as does everyone. When Marth's playing right...it gets tough. Sometimes you'll take 3 licks to get one. So you HAVE to make the best of every hit. Once you get marth off the level, please please please don't let him back on. If edgeguarded correctly, he doesn't get back on at all.

All in all, you gotta space the BAir outside his FAir range. You gotta get him to commit, and capitalize with a counter attack, and use little delays to mess with his attack timing. It's a guessing game in the air alot of times...so you gotta trick the little bugger. Be smarter than him. Use platforms for spacing, tricks, delays, all of the above really.

Yoshi's story used to be called Marth Land around these parts...now we call it Ganon land. It's my favorite place to fight marth. When used correctly, the platforms are more useful for us Ganons, than for marth. If not used right, we get smoked.
 

Vyzor

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 15, 2010
Messages
389
Location
St.Marys, Ontario
Hey guys, could you give me some advice on how to do Ganon's edge waveland easily? The timing seems hard and i'm not quite sure what direction to go in.
 

G. Vice

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 15, 2007
Messages
1,156
Location
Arkansas
Hey guys, could you give me some advice on how to do Ganon's edge waveland easily? The timing seems hard and i'm not quite sure what direction to go in.
tilt back super slightly for a brief moment, then immediately pull and hold forward towards the map. The rest is pushing the L or R button at the right time. That depends on your controller, but you get used to it. It becomes muscle memory before too long.
 

TobiasTruth

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jan 17, 2009
Messages
16
Location
Northridge Cali
Hey guys, could you give me some advice on how to do Ganon's edge waveland easily? The timing seems hard and i'm not quite sure what direction to go in.
I like to let go of the ledge w/ back tilt too. I guess that's because I usually just jump if i try to waveland by tilting dwn.

A good thing to keep in mind when trying to waveland with your invulnerability frames is to make sure your already jumping towards the ledge before the circles from the ledge grab disappear.
 

Manondorf

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 16, 2010
Messages
58
Location
Bay Area, CA
Sup guys. I'm gonna be playing at DGDTJ (http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=282201) this weekend. There will, of course, be match footage that you can see (weather I like it or not, lol). Time to see what I'm made of!

Wish me luck gentlemen.

I am also affiliated with a melee ranking project that's going on there (http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=291764). The project's originator is a friend of mine. We will be taking some time to spread the word about the project and trying to get people interested, and encourage their participation in the project. Please have a look at the thread and see for yourselves.
 

Bl@ckChris

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 4, 2009
Messages
7,443
Location
Greensboro, NC
hehe.

a falco today tried to mindgame me. classic shield pressure then wait for the jump oos so he could punish with an fsmash.

well, i was gonna uair oos to hit him.

instead, i said "**** it" and usmashed oos. it took priority over his fsmash, hit him with the cockblast, and he died.

**** yeah.

edited for triforce of power.
 

spider_sense

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 25, 2007
Messages
2,295
Location
Miami, FL (Ives Dairy)
hehe.

a falco today tried to mindgame me. classic shield pressure then wait for the jump oos so he could punish with an fsmash.

well, i was gonna uair oos to hit him.

instead, i accidentally usmashed oos. it took priority over his fsmash, hit him with the cockblast, and he died.

**** yeah.
Rule #1 Chris. You never admit that it was an accident when **** like that happens.
 

G. Vice

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 15, 2007
Messages
1,156
Location
Arkansas
Went to a tourney in Memphis, there was a low turnout, but we had some amazing smashers there. I managed to get some EXCELLENT sets with Ihavespaceballs, and they should be highly entertaining. I'll definitely post them up here when they get uploaded.

All in all, I ended up taking a close 4th, behind Iori, Nite, and IHSB...had crazy close sets every match. But for real, keep an eye for the videos, I'm thinking ya'll will like them!
 

spider_sense

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 25, 2007
Messages
2,295
Location
Miami, FL (Ives Dairy)
Went to a tourney in Memphis, there was a low turnout, but we had some amazing smashers there. I managed to get some EXCELLENT sets with Ihavespaceballs, and they should be highly entertaining. I'll definitely post them up here when they get uploaded.

All in all, I ended up taking a close 4th, behind Iori, Nite, and IHSB...had crazy close sets every match. But for real, keep an eye for the videos, I'm thinking ya'll will like them!
lol Iori so much fun to play. Does he still play Mew2? I beat him out of a dollar Tipped 6, and all I can remember is that this guy camps so hard with him. Lmao IHSB, need to play him again; he's like the samus version of me. lol
 

G. Vice

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 15, 2007
Messages
1,156
Location
Arkansas
lol Iori so much fun to play. Does he still play Mew2? I beat him out of a dollar Tipped 6, and all I can remember is that this guy camps so hard with him. Lmao IHSB, need to play him again; he's like the samus version of me. lol
He does, but he didn't play him this time. His Mewtwo has gotten ALOT better though from what I hear. But this time he played DK/Doc...I beat his DK, but his Doc beat me. I really shouldn't have lost, he's just really intimidating to me.

And yes...man Jack is so fun to play. He's the absolute most fun player to play in my book. And yes Spider...he's DEFINITELY the Samus version of you. He pulled a waveland from the ledge > moonwalk > dsmash on me. Disgusting lol. Good matches vs him.
 

Bl@ckChris

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 4, 2009
Messages
7,443
Location
Greensboro, NC
hey, given the potential of shield DI, could usmash oos become useful?

like i said, i did it accidentally once during shield pressure with good results, but i wasn't even using shield DI at that point. i noticed shroomed does it pretty often as doc, but of course, i think his usmash comes out a lot sooner than ours.

thoughts?
 

Divinokage

Smash Legend
Joined
Aug 6, 2006
Messages
16,250
Location
Montreal, Quebec
I dont think its safe to do at all, its way too slow usually unless you use it as a techchase with platforms.

Also I just went to a tournament and I won! =P
 

Linguini

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 17, 2006
Messages
4,698
Location
Weston, Florida
hey, given the potential of shield DI, could usmash oos become useful?

like i said, i did it accidentally once during shield pressure with good results, but i wasn't even using shield DI at that point. i noticed shroomed does it pretty often as doc, but of course, i think his usmash comes out a lot sooner than ours.

thoughts?
Usmash oos is useful in some situations: baiting under a platform, baiting jumps, and sometimes psychs out you opponent when you immediately jab right after.

It's to be used sparingly, but ganon needs all the options he can get tbh.
 

Divinokage

Smash Legend
Joined
Aug 6, 2006
Messages
16,250
Location
Montreal, Quebec
Any vids kage?
Ya I hope they will be uploaded, I got some funny double Ganon action going with PKM mostly in the doubles bracket and then I got 2 sets from WF and GF vs Diakonos.. so ya lots of Fox matches that I think you guys will be interested in seeing. =)
 

Bl@ckChris

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 4, 2009
Messages
7,443
Location
Greensboro, NC
hmm so nobody thinks it can be used in conjunction with shield DI?

guess i'll just stick to grabbing then.

either that, or i'll start a trend.
 

Linguini

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 17, 2006
Messages
4,698
Location
Weston, Florida
hmm so nobody thinks it can be used in conjunction with shield DI?

guess i'll just stick to grabbing then.

either that, or i'll start a trend.
Meh...believe it or not i've messed around with that vs spacies and I only got it to work like once in 30 matches lol. I'd say stick to grabbing.

Good sheet kage, can't wait for pound 5!

Hotel room.....in the venue.......omg you know what that means:chuckle:

Ive been recording some next **** for my combo video, I recently hit a new plateau so i'm pretty excited to unveil it at the upcoming tournaments.

NOOB3 in 2 weeks with colbol/hungrybox there and then pound on my birthday! Me and
colbol are getting top 3 teams at pound 5 easily, i'm calling it now.
 

Divinokage

Smash Legend
Joined
Aug 6, 2006
Messages
16,250
Location
Montreal, Quebec
Meh...believe it or not i've messed around with that vs spacies and I only got it to work like once in 30 matches lol. I'd say stick to grabbing.

Good sheet kage, can't wait for pound 5!

Hotel room.....in the venue.......omg you know what that means:chuckle:

Ive been recording some next **** for my combo video, I recently hit a new plateau so i'm pretty excited to unveil it at the upcoming tournaments.

NOOB3 in 2 weeks with colbol/hungrybox there and then pound on my birthday! Me and
colbol are getting top 3 teams at pound 5 easily, i'm calling it now.
Heh.. looking forward to it. =) I also believe I have achieved another new level... Let's see what's going to happen.
 

Brookman

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 20, 2005
Messages
6,202
Location
pikachu
Would anyone care to shower me ganon info?? looking for anything and everything, from the simple/common to the complex and obscure.
 

Bl@ckChris

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 4, 2009
Messages
7,443
Location
Greensboro, NC
bair *****
jab is fast
our tilts are cool
we can cg a lot of chars
fair hits hard
reverse ledgedash is invincible
ledgedash -> jab can be invincible
most ganon mains smoke weed
up b has a massive initial hitbox, and if it hits, we can waveland
uair is fast, and frame 16 is the dern best

ganon *****.
 

DippnDots

Feral Youth
Joined
Sep 27, 2006
Messages
2,149
Location
Cbus, Ohio
and we can CC into stuff real easily, plus our survivablity is on par with samus / peach but our recovery is on par with falcon. At least we can kinda sweet spot.... kinda.
 

Palpi

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 26, 2008
Messages
5,714
Location
Yardley, Pennsylvania
bair *****
jab is fast
our tilts are cool
we can cg a lot of chars
fair hits hard
reverse ledgedash is invincible
ledgedash -> jab can be invincible
most ganon mains smoke weed
up b has a massive initial hitbox, and if it hits, we can waveland
uair is fast, and frame 16 is the dern best

ganon *****.
I approve of everything you just said.
 

-ACE-

Gotem City Vigilante
Joined
Sep 25, 2007
Messages
11,536
Location
The back country, GA
ledgehop jab/grab is also invincible.
RLD should be used occasionally. Its actually risky.. and I say this knowing that I use rld more than any ganon I know of lol. Except for spider sense maybe.
 

Bl@ckChris

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 4, 2009
Messages
7,443
Location
Greensboro, NC
platforms are important
our shield is pretty good
stomps hitbox starts at the neck and extends past the toes
wavelands are fun
depending on what region you're in, ganon's down B has a multitude of names. In NC it is often referred to as the mexican truck.
it takes a lot to kill us, but not that much for us to kill.
on a related note, we get combo'd far too easily. uair gets us out of some situations though.

thats about all i got for ya.

edit: side b is safe on shield (sorta). if dumb people try to grab us, we often dtilt and lead from there.
 
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