Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

[G. Vice]

Yeah I like it a lot, but if you come across people that know their sh¡t they will di behind you if they get hit mid-air (and sometimes be out of range of a bair)or cc and punish if they are hit on the ground.

Yeah, it's situations like that where they are at no percent where I would avoid using it. But for like catching them out of a stomp or something at low-mid percent depending on the character, it can be too good. I like it versus Marth, and spacies. And capt- Okay, I like it in every matchup but I definitely think you and kage are right. It's not something to throw out there twelve times a match or something.

 

[Samba]

it easily makes int onto my favorite-moves-of-any-character-not-just-ganon list. God, tech-chases... And dodging grabs and air-moves with it is so satisfying, ESPECIALLY if you do it from a ledge hop. Although you will get your butt punished straight off if you miss. I don't generally use it against Falcon or Fox cause they can just straight up outrun it on reflex.

Granted, I'm used to fighting scrubs, so I realize everything I do will be harder to get away with against guys like you

 

[Divinokage]

Nice kage. I'd watch all 51 lol

So you want me to 51-0 him? I'll try lol.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Yeah I like it a lot, but if you come across people that know their sh¡t they will di behind you if they get hit mid-air (and sometimes be out of range of a bair)or cc and punish if they are hit on the ground.

There's also that percent range where they can DI away, and be too high for a followup. Usually people who DI towards me I feel are easier to chase with F-airs.

it easily makes int onto my favorite-moves-of-any-character-not-just-ganon list. God, tech-chases... And dodging grabs and air-moves with it is so satisfying, ESPECIALLY if you do it from a ledge hop. Although you will get your butt punished straight off if you miss. I don't generally use it against Falcon or Fox cause they can just straight up outrun it on reflex.

Granted, I'm used to fighting scrubs, so I realize everything I do will be harder to get away with against guys like you

SideB is awesome. I mean, you're probably only going to legitimately mindgame into it once a set, but I mean it's totally legit for mindgames.

There's also techchasing into it, which is ****. And while it's still risky, it's a good option against people who you know are afraid to let go of shield against Ganon given that it's safe on block.

I love the last 10 seconds of this video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDHLuA6wVKs

 

[Samba]

I love the last 10 seconds of this video.

dude..... yes. just yes.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

side b is not safe on block.

you won't get shieldgrabbed. but by God, you can get punished.

actually, vs marth, i got shieldgrabbed yesterday. **** tripped me out.

 

[Samba]

That is SO absurd...

I'm fairly certain Zelda gets a free platinum-hit on a block from B-side. I just rarely see it since the guy I play against who plays Zelda used to play Sheik so his muscle-memory is hardwired to reflex-shield-grab on contact. But yeah, what are some matchup specific punishments one should expect off of a B-side block?

 

[Bl@ckChris]

waveshine -> death would be one i imagine.

marth's fair oos works i think. if not, dair oos probably works.

for most anyone else, the shieldgrab will miss, but a wd oos grab will probably work for a lot of chars. i think falcon can straight up knee oos before we can do anything lol.

maybe i'm overestimating things, and jab can come out before some things, but i feel like i USED to think it was safe on block, and then i was shown otherwise by my opponents.

 

[-ACE-]

Samba

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=298260

 

[Samba]

waveshine -> death would be one i imagine.

marth's fair oos works i think. if not, dair oos probably works.

for most anyone else, the shieldgrab will miss, but a wd oos grab will probably work for a lot of chars. i think falcon can straight up knee oos before we can do anything lol.

maybe i'm overestimating things, and jab can come out before some things, but i feel like i USED to think it was safe on block, and then i was shown otherwise by my opponents.

This calls for some serious testing.

Samba

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=298260

hey thanks ACE, I'll be sure to read through this. And I guess you should all expect to see some of my Ganon around the vids sometime soon

 

[Ace55]

Got 3 more sets recorded at a tourney last week. Some advice would be much appreciated.

vs Timmy (Marth/Falco/Falco), match 2, match 3 Match 2 is mad gay lol

vs Remen (Falco), match 2 Should've had him match 2

vs Lawrencelot (Sheik/Falco) match 2

Placed 7th out of 25, should have gotten 5th, lost to a Mario in losers.

 

[Samba]

Got 3 more sets recorded at a tourney last week. Some advice would be much appreciated.

vs Timmy (Marth/Falco/Falco), match 2, match 3 Match 2 is mad gay lol

Match one was awesome. I loved the turnaround up-B OOS, I've never used that as Ganon and you've inspired me.
Match two... personally as Ganon, when I'm getting laser camped on FD, I just go to the edge. Ganon has a lot of options from the ledge, AND I at least feel very comfortable with my ability to tech a spike or a D-smash. You can infinitely stall, and the ledge-hop u-air has invincibility.
I feel like with match three the aforementioned ledge options would have come in even more useful given the size of the stage (even though you DID **** him). I felt like there were a good number of things you could have capitalized on if you'd mixed up your edge game a little bit more.

 

[Samba]

Got 3 more sets recorded at a tourney last week. Some advice would be much appreciated.

vs Remen (Falco), match 2 Should've had him match 2

vs Lawrencelot (Sheik/Falco) match 2

Match two vs Remen, 2:24
something I like to do as Ganon that I don't see very many people do is (in your case you would've had to do a second Wizard's Foot) get under the stage, right next to the claw-holding-the-electric-universesphere, and use my up-B away, so I'm facing away from the stage. You'll hug the ceiling, obviously not being able to get hit by attacks since you're under the level, and then you'll automaticallysweetspot the edge when you get to it with the turnaround quality.
as for more general advice, laser-type pokemon are super-effective against time-type pokemon. If you'd taught your Ganon Hidden Power-sword, and then set up a Substitute and use Agility, I feel like you would have won that pokemon battle.

As for the match against Sheik, I find it easier (and safer) to stay under her when I hit her onto a platform with a grab or whatever. I saw a lot of times when you'd jump up there and whiff a arial, as apposed to staying underneath for the easy tech-chase

 

[G. Vice]

Match two vs Remen, 2:24
something I like to do as Ganon that I don't see very many people do is (in your case you would've had to do a second Wizard's Foot) get under the stage, right next to the claw-holding-the-electric-universesphere, and use my up-B away, so I'm facing away from the stage. You'll hug the ceiling, obviously not being able to get hit by attacks since you're under the level, and then you'll automaticallysweetspot the edge when you get to it with the turnaround quality.

So they grab the ledge then and you're edgehogged. That process takes several seconds.

A good player is either going to interrupt your down B and knock you further/kill you, or laser you where you'll lose your double jump afterwards.

Or they'll just do the easy thing and grab the ledge.

So that's not really gonna work man.

 

[Samba]

This is why I need to start playing against good smasher, so I can stop being used to getting away with obscenely elaborate recoveries and combos hahah!!

I guess that makes me the biggest scrub of the lot, since I talk a big game hahah

 

[Ace55]

Thanks for the input Samba. I could've ledgecamped Timmy a bit on FD, he certainly deserved it.

Reverse UpB OOS is great, Jeapie stole it from me, lol.


Shameless repost to keep it on the page:

Got 3 more sets recorded at a tourney last week. Some advice would be much appreciated.

vs Timmy (Marth/Falco/Falco), match 2, match 3 Match 2 is mad gay lol

vs Remen (Falco), match 2 Should've had him match 2

vs Lawrencelot (Sheik/Falco) match 2

Placed 7th out of 25, should have gotten 5th, lost to a Mario in losers.

 

[-ACE-]

I swear. Why must there be 2 ganon mains that go by ACE?

Also I haven't watched many of these vids (I'll watch them all eventually) but at 0:24 on match 2 when remen up-b'd, he was too close. RLD to dj uair or bair could have taken him out.

Wow, every time I see a PAL fair or dair land I die a little inside.

 

[Ace55]

We're probably meant to do a fusion dance to unlock our true potential.

...or it could be a coincidence.

 

[Samba]

You two will have to have a match, and the winner changes his name to The Real Ace

 

[DippnDots]

Double ganon team.. fusion dance.. whatever that makes has got to be scary and purple

 

[A2ZOMG]

Got 3 more sets recorded at a tourney last week. Some advice would be much appreciated.

vs Timmy (Marth/Falco/Falco), match 2, match 3 Match 2 is mad gay lol

vs Remen (Falco), match 2 Should've had him match 2

vs Lawrencelot (Sheik/Falco) match 2

Placed 7th out of 25, should have gotten 5th, lost to a Mario in losers.

Who was this Mario you lost to? I'd be salty as hell if I lost to a Mario as Ganon. I mean hell, I go Ganon just to make Mario users feel bad for playing against me.

 

[-ACE-]

As long as you are good at abusing your range and use more bair mario has a hard time. His speed does allow for some hefty mindgames though, so you just have to be familiar with his capabilities. Don't get grabbed lol. And make sure to utilize reverse up-b if he's trying to cape your recovery. I'll watch the test of your vids later ace.

 

[A2ZOMG]

I'm a Mario main. I HATE Mario dittos because they're extremely campy and boring. So naturally I feel obliged to show Mario mains no mercy with my Ganon.

Anyhow to actually comment on the matches, I really think you should recover high more Ace55, especially in those matches against Falco and Marth. The only time you should consider deliberately recovering low against Marth is if you KNOW you can edgetech his D-tilt. Most of the time Marth isn't really able to punish Ganon extremely hard if you're good about mixing up high recoveries and DIing carefully. All you want to do is condition him into letting Ganon get back on stage safely, and then continue with business as usual.

Also, I know it's a hard habit to break, but F-air -> Jab isn't always the best option. Throw in a few tilts, especially if you're out of range for that Jab. I also felt that your reactions out of D-throw were fairly weak at times.

Against Falco, you should learn to recognize spacings where it's safe to wavedash out of shield to gain breathing room.

 

[Ace55]

The Mario was McCloud. I was/am kinda salty but hey, I got outplayed, what can I do about it? Get better obviously, and that's what I'm here for.

About fair->jab, yeah when I space it correctly jab is kinda pointless, gotta calm down in tourney. Also agree about my recovery choices. I've gotta use more WD OOS in general I think.

Thanks

 

[Renth]

The Mario was McCloud. I was/am kinda salty but hey, I got outplayed, what can I do about it? Get better obviously, and that's what I'm here for.

About fair->jab, yeah when I space it correctly jab is kinda pointless, gotta calm down in tourney. Also agree about my recovery choices. I've gotta use more WD OOS in general I think.

Thanks

up air -> jab is greater than f air -> jab.

Who was this Mario you lost to? I'd be salty as hell if I lost to a Mario as Ganon. I mean hell, I go Ganon just to make Mario users feel bad for playing against me.

That match up is stupid and you shouldn't be sleeping on mario as hard as you are.

We're probably meant to do a fusion dance to unlock our true potential.

...or it could be a coincidence.

Do not flatter yourself, -Ace- is a phenomenal player. By having the name you got some shoes to fill.

 

[Ace55]

How was that flattering myself? Wasn't taking anything away from -Ace-, judging from his posts he's a nice/cool guy and his threads tend to be extremely helpful.

I'm kind of a fan of yours Renth, any chance you could comment on my matches?

 

[DippnDots]

Against Falco, you should learn to recognize spacings where it's safe to wavedash out of shield to gain breathing room.

this this this this

for the most part you want to maneuver around lasers, and being able to powershield them is always a plus, but yeah, you need to know when its safe to get out of your shield and you want to stay out of your shield as much as possible or he'll just lock you down.. he'll do that anyways actually. Just remember! It's not unwinnable! You only need at least three hits!

 

[G. Vice]

-ACE- is one of the more legit Ganon's of today's smashworld, so I definitely think that by sharing his name you better not bring reproach upon him

Renth's one of the rare people that can put down a game for a year at a time and come back as good as he left. Not really fair, but eh some people have all the luck lol. When I started playing Ganon I must admit I looked to Renth videos, so I'm a fan as well other Ace.

 

[-ACE-]

Mark and zane <3

 

[G. Vice]

Mark and zane <3

Dude, craziest thing happened last night.

Don't start thinking weird of me or nothing, but I had this dream that you came to a smashfest here in AR, and me and you were just fixing to play then I woke up

 

[Samba]

there are ways to beat Falco, UNLESS he's listening to Kids, by Sleigh Bells while he's playing... Then there's literally nothing you can do...

 

[-ACE-]

Dude, craziest thing happened last night.

Don't start thinking weird of me or nothing, but I had this dream that you came to a smashfest here in AR, and me and you were just fixing to play then I woke up

Bahahaha nah man it's straight. JUST THINK WHAT WOULD HAVE HAPPENED IF YOU DIDN'T WAKE UP!

lol

 

[reactor]

I thought that shls were the only way to beat falco

 

[A2ZOMG]

That match up is stupid and you shouldn't be sleeping on mario as hard as you are.

I'll talk as much **** as I want about the character I actually main. =P

I agree Mario is stupid to play against, but I'm going to add that Mario is gay to play against in general. This is also why I go Ganon against him! I can be so so so stupid to Mario as Ganon as long as I avoid a few things. I don't care what the ratio is agreed to be. I'm not losing to a Mario, and I'm going to make him feel bad for going Mario against me.

Friendlies:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O69kOqirLKw vs Falco
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsGfWu_dNV8 vs ICs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6G-N0LWx9s vs Sheik
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QoVMmCtkCQ0 vs Marth (best one imo)

 

[Renth]

How was that flattering myself? Wasn't taking anything away from -Ace-, judging from his posts he's a nice/cool guy and his threads tend to be extremely helpful.

I'm kind of a fan of yours Renth, any chance you could comment on my matches?

I'm horrible at advice unless you meet me in person, ACE can tell you all about it.

Also you're welcome to ignore the majority of my comments I am an *** hole.

I agree Mario is stupid to play against, but I'm going to add that Mario is gay to play against in general. This is also why I go Ganon against him! I can be so so so stupid to Mario as Ganon as long as I avoid a few things. I don't care what the ratio is agreed to be. I'm not losing to a Mario, and I'm going to make him feel bad for going Mario against me.

Mario dittos are infinitely more fun :D

 

[Renth]

edit stupid as
ssdlkfjksdjf


Double post accident wooo hooo

 

[A2ZOMG]

Mario dittos are infinitely more fun :D

Man Renth, it's great that you're amazing. But you're still silly.

I feel like I should meet you IRL just so that I can outlame you in a Mario ditto with my incredibly gay campy playstyle just to make my point clear. ****ing Mario dittos man. Now I have to spread the word to the world how ridiculously gay they are.

 

[Renth]

Man Renth, it's great that you're amazing. But you're still silly.

I feel like I should meet you IRL just so that I can outlame you in a Mario ditto with my incredibly gay campy playstyle just to make my point clear. ****ing Mario dittos man. Now I have to spread the word to the world how ridiculously gay they are.

Do it I ain't scared! You aren't the only one who knows how to wave dash backwards and spam f smash.

Mario dittos are mad fun. fo sho


Alsoo you have no idea how silly i am haha

 

[A2ZOMG]

Somehow I feel like my point is being defeated. Like, I'm going to end up somehow having a lot of fun if I ever end up playing Mario dittos against Renth.

God ****it. How could I let you mindgame me this badly?

 

[Divinokage]

Hehe, sounds like fun guys... =)