i forget how to use fsmash lol

[Bloodcross]

how much does it cover below and around you?

i wish i had hitbox data for the move because i know it's amazing but i forget how lol

 

[Steeler]

it covers through your body (at least to your belly) and low enough to hit people hanging on the ledge

i use it most often when someone is landing kind of next to me so i can stutter step away to minimize the chance of getting hit during the startup

 

[Bloodcross]

yeah i like to cover landing options with that move

i just tend to have trouble using it to cover the ledge.

i only seem to get it when people dont sweetspot with their upb's or something

 

[Bloodcross]

im thinking i have to stand in a certain spot where the neck aligns with the ledge when i use the move

 

[Steeler]

well the ledge thing can be a little janky depending on the character because of differing ledge snap safety plus the stage you are on

like, i've fsmashed a ROB under the lip of smashville before, before he was able to grab the ledge. that prob wouldn't happen on duck hunt or something with no lip

i think you are right about the neck thing, because with the animation he swings his head forward and there's that whoosh animation line, that's what i am guessing is hitting under stages

you will probably never fsmash someone like sheik because when she snaps out of up b, her hurtbox is actually pretty far away from the stage, plus she doesn't physically come close to the ledge until she has already snapped it

but most characters have to bring their hurtboxes with them on the way to the ledge. and if their ledge snap size is smaller than your fsmash range is below stage, you can get them with slick ass timing. aforementioned ROB is pretty slow to get to the ledge + doesn't have hitboxes as he up Bs so you don't have to worry about getting hit before you release. little mac can only sweetspot the ledge after the last hit of his up b so he is pretty free to this too. wario's up b isn't super fast like mario's and i think he comes pretty close before he can actually sweetspot

but with most characters you will probably be banking on clipping them during that 1 frame ledgesnap vulnerability, which is risky with a slow + punishable move like fsmash

we can try and mess around with this because it would be nice to know the specifics of which characters and when and what stages. this was probably really good on lylat before the patch, might be even better now against people that purposely aim for the invisible lip underneath, since they will just be riding the stage for a bit right where fsmash could/should hit. plus dsmash similarly reaches really deep, not sure which smash hits further doe

 

[Davregis]

dunno if it's different on Wii U, but FSmash is one of my primary killers for people recovering due to how crazy far it hits below ledge, far enough to hit people not even close to a ledgesnap

 

[Bloodcross]

im sure it's not different from wifi

im just not sure how to time the move or how far i stand away from the ledge

if it really is super easy to get then... welp.

and you're not just punishing the frame 1 vulnerability right?

 

[Steeler]

After testing this, I found that fsmash doesn't actually hit below Zard's feet at all. The lowest it goes is probably perfectly even with whatever Zard is standing on. So when we hit people recovering, they are probably extending their hurtbox into the stage in some way, or they are coming in horizontally and getting hit as they go towards the stage. Dsmash hits noticeably further down, but only close to Zard - the hitboxes near the wings don't hit a Ganon hanging on the ledge (neither does fsmash). Other characters like Zard himself expose themselves over the lip as they hang though, and both moves can hit those characters.

Knowing this, fsmash will never hit on stages without a lip/empty space directly below the edge where the opponent can come in and make themselves vulnerable before they snap.

 

[Ganonballer]

I use Fsmash on the ledge but only when I'm predicting a standard get up from the ledge. Its pretty quick on release but the start up is kinda long so just release during the first frame when they get up and they are vulnerable. Its hard to time but it works pretty well. Altho Nair covers more options on the ledge so I generally use that more.

Also you can combo Nair into Fsmash on some characters depending on % and DI but Ive landed it on quite a few people. Generally if they DI up from Nair Fsmash will hit if they are around 60-80 % I believe. Needs a little more testing for specifics but it works.

Other than that Fsmash is hard to land without a good read. Pivot Fsmash can help with that tho. Just try reading an approach with it.

 

[Bloodcross]

yeah fsmash is amazing but hard to use i feel.

just baiting whiffed grabs to connect a fsmash is killer as well.

oh and counterpicking PS2 omega now has merits other than being our home turf lmao

 

[RadianB]

I had so many replays of Forawrd Smash and Down Smash hitting below the ledge before the Mewtwo update. I should have uploaded them while I had the chance. The deepest one I can remember for Forward Smash was against Duck Hunt on the Duck Hunt omega stage. I manged to hit him during his Up B whilst he was about 1 pikmin length (don't know what other measurement length to use lol) away from the ledge vertically.
For Down Smash I manged to hit Samus all the way through the Omega version of Wuhu Island. Near the bottom of the lip part. I was shocked at how deep the move went. Samus was directly underneath me when I used the move and she was just reeling herself in with her tether recovery.

@ Bloodcross ; Regarding your question about the timing and positioning of the move, it's hard for me to explain. I just naturally know when to do it sometimes due to experience. I haven't practiced it properly in training mode yet against another human player so I can't give specific details. I have some 1.0.6 replays saved though if you want me to send you them?

 

[Purple_Anteater]

If anyone is whiffing jabs in front of you let it rip.

 

[EvilPinkamina]

I've noticed that I can consistently fsmash off the ledge if I pull it about a frame or two before they choose an option, or right as. The only options that I don't think would be covered is dropping down and maybe roll. Haven't tested against either.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Charizard still has the invincibility frames on his F-Smash from Brawl. Attack hits on Frames 22-24, invincible on Frames 22-26.

 

[Steeler]

So it looks like fsmash is usually working against characters that extend their hurtbox into the ledge before they grab it. ROB is especially egregious, you can actually Fireball Cannon him multiple times while he tries to grab it. Not sure who else is really vulnerable to it.

 

[RadianB]

So it looks like fsmash is usually working against characters that extend their hurtbox into the ledge before they grab it. ROB is especially egregious, you can actually Fireball Cannon him multiple times while he tries to grab it. Not sure who else is really vulnerable to it.

Shulk, Greninja and Duck Hunt. There's probably more but I can't remember atm.