I need help on the Lucario matchup.

[GooseMainsDiddy]

I was at a PlayNTrade tourney and I lost to DieSuperFly. I did quite well IMHO. Both of the matches were really close but he just got the better of me with those disjointed hitboxes. The hardest match I have ever done so far. Help plox.

 

[Count]

I have lots of experience in this matchup, maybe not vs players to the calibur of you, but I've beaten 4 different MW lucarios and have yet to lose to one, and one of my friends plays a lucario also.

So here's some starters I guess.

Lucario has a short trip animation, this can be bad because he can get out of being hit by a banana quickly, but good because it can lead to long banana locks.

I've found FD to be bad against a lucario that knows that matchup. I also ban yoshi's island vs lucario.

SH fair is good in this matchup. None of his aerials can really contend with fair.

Diddy hump with the grab is good also. In my experience, lucario's that play defensively against diddy can be quite annoying, because they can just throw blue balls and grab you as you approach them. If you diddy hump them, they cannot grab you first. Lucario has excellent grab range.


I may have a few other pointers in the future, hope those help somewhat.

It is doubtful I have played a lucario to DSF's caliber, however.

 

[D. Disciple]

Lucario has excellent grab range??? Since when?

 

[Dekar173]

Stack stack stack damage, at 180 your fresh utilt is a guaranteed kill on most stages (160ish on Halberd :D:D) and it trades hits with the first hitbox of dair =O

Of course, this is assuming you know how to avoid kill moves (don't let those silly lucarios mindgame you into an fsmash, those kind of hurt!) Otherwise, you're screwed

 

[Count]

Lucario has excellent grab range??? Since when?

Maybe it is just my friend, but I consider diddy to have decent grab range, and often when I try to initiate a running grab against him he grabs me first. It could just be him playing me so much or having better timing than me, etc.

 

[ADHD]

Smashville absolutely destroys lucario. And lucario is a predictable character in general, just always approach with a running shield and wait for his aerial patterns to end. Everything he has other than jabs and grabs (which he should have trouble getting in range for that imo) is predictable. Just read his mix-ups and don't be hasty when trying to kill him.

 

[Jupz]

Lucario has a terrible grab range

 

[Bellioes]

Well @ Count, the regular running grab is actually very deceptive as to when you can grab. IIRC you actually grab for less frames than a regular standing grab. The animation just lasts longer. Try dashing shield to grab instead and youll probably beat him more times than he beats you. And if he really does that a lot, than just dashing spot dodge to dodge the shieldgrab and then punish.

 

[Gnes]

Each f-smash lucario=A naner flying in his face.

If its not happening ur doing something wrong. Your fair beats all of his aerials, and if u learn how to smash DI out of dair, which isn't too terribly hard, that's one less kill move he has.

Just like GayDHD said, hes pretty predictable. He doesn't have very few mix-ups so if u just play safe u should be fine.

 

[fource]

On counterpicks, immediately ban Frigate Orpheon. Try to avoid going to giant stages like Pictochat and Jungle Japes.
ADHD was right when he said Smashville is awesome because you can gimp Lucario pretty well there. Personally, I prefer Lylat cruise, it has the same effect but I like platforms and I just personally feel more comfortable there. This is one of those match ups where Smashville is just better than FD though (like in the Pit match-up).
Play a little more protective than you normally would though, I use a lot of backward glide tosses in this match up for example.

 

[TreK]

Interresting. I used to cp Luigi on Lucario since he's way easier to kill from the top, but weeg lacks range and still gets pwnt. I gotta try all that stuff. Thanks again.

 

[Count]

Sorry for my ignorance about the grab range, I feel like I getting grabbed while approaching lucario a fair amount, but it could just be me being predictable, etc.

Hopefully that other stuff is somewhat helpful.

 

[PhatyCHONG]

Diddy Kong vs. Lucario - Stage discussion
- This should be useful for counterpicking and bans against lucario

Lucario:

Counterpicks: Final Destination, Smashville, Rainbow Cruise, Lylat Cruise, Brinstar, Battlefield
Reason for Counter:

Final Destination
- Overall always a good diddy stage
- Bad: No platforms to avoid Lucario Blast
- Defensive play

Smashville
- Overall alway a good diddy stage
- A platform to help you against some of lucario blast while 50% of the time have no interuption of the platform getting in way of banana game.
- [IMO] Better than FD on this matchup
- Offensive play

Rainbow Cruise
- Fair gets nerfed
- Easily gimped recovery
- Bad: D air get buffed
- Transformation 1 - Diddy's Favor: Always own on the ship, pressure towards that lip.
- Transformation 2 - Slight Lucario Favor: Has higher priority but can be easily gimped
- Transformation 3 - Diddy's Favor: can help get kills against Lucario because of the low ceiling and Lucario being hard to kill

Lylat Cruise
- Lucario struggles to recovery in many different situations
- Tilt hurts Lucario blast

Originally Posted by 4RCE
Lylat Cruise

Lucario should struggle to recover in a lot of different situations. The most notable is when Lucario is under Lylat because he will be forced to semi-circle around. If Lucario is recovering from a diagonal than he will most likely be home-free BUT the stage may tilt and he may hit the "bottom" and die. He will most likely live if he is going horizontally.
No matter what I think Diddy should do one of two things: 1. Grab the ledge which is probably preferable or 2. Throw a banana at him (works best if he is coming horizontally so it brings him under the stage more).

What I meant was that, let's say the stage tilts like this \. If Lucario is on the right side of the stage and shoots an aura sphere, the ball with hit the center of Lylat and will not travel to hit Diddy just like any other projectile.

Brinstar
- Easier to kill lucario
- Small Blast zone
- Easy to Camp lucario
- Stage hurts lucario's blast
- Bad: Hard to gimped
- Good: Hard to be gimped

Battlefield
- Any Neutral is good against Lucario
- Wouldn't CP or Ban

Bans: Frigate Orpheon, Jungle Japes, Norfair, Yoshi Island, Luigi Mansion
Reason for Ban:

Frigate Orpheon
- Considered Lucario's best stage
- Really hard to Gimp because he always have walls to cling to.
- Can Wall cling in every transformation
- Slope of the 2nd part of the transformation helps his Fair and Dair
- You can be gimped
- The Platforms that come out of the side of the stage only helps him more

Jungle Japes
- Lucario can CAMP
- High Ceiling help Lucario even more
- Hard to be gimped here
- Lucario can live longer on this stage than most

Norfair
- Considered one of Diddy's worst stage
- Lucario ground game and air game get buffed here
- More likely to be tech chased
- Hard to Gimp here
- Hard to be gimped here
- Aura sphere gets buffed

Yoshi Island
- Lucarios Best Neutral
- He can wall cling to avoid gimps
- Lucarios tend [no evidence but can be said] to CP there best neutral which would be Yoshi Island

 

[bludhoundz]

Lucario has excellent grab range.

Lucario has AWFUL grab range.

You can probably space a uair so that he can't shieldgrab you even..

 

[GooseMainsDiddy]

This helps a lot. I didn't know about the fair beating all of his aerials. I was playing really defensively in the air because I thought his disjointed hitboxes extended farther than my fair.