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I want to crush snake

jinto_charge

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 21, 2008
Messages
2
I have this piece of ____ friend who plays as snake . i haven't played him yet, but all my friends say he is alot better then i am . Anyways , i don't just want to beat him , i want to totally embarrasshim! he talks alot of trash and is generally a jerk . He isnt too smart so i think i could use that to my advantage :D. i know this is a n00bish post but thanks to anyone who helps ....
 

Trozz

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 11, 2008
Messages
611
Location
Canada, BC
Reminds me of when I just got in to Starcraft. xD
It depends if said Snake knows the tricks to break the physics of the game.
 

Jester Kirby

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 15, 2008
Messages
422
Location
Memphis, TN
NNID
JesterKirby
Yea, if he isnt to smart....useing a strategic character like Snake isnt gonna be to hard of a match up. If he is truely as you say then he is probably just gonna rush you constantly....not a great Snake stratagy but easy for a Lucas to own. Otherwise if he uses the explosives to control the field look for openings and drill the mess out of them, but don't just rush in there w/e you do. And watch out for snakes shortrange cb ability, it can out do Lucas easy.

When I was playing Snake today my Friend played Lucas, he made good use of PK Freeze, Thunder, and Fire.

oh, and you prolly alrready know this, but the down special won't absorb Snake's missle, I learned that the hard way a while back. XD
 

prOAPC

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 24, 2008
Messages
1,816
Location
Cartagena/Bogotá - Colombia
yesterday i played angainst a Snake player, he was really anoying, rarely he used his A attacks, his bombs were everywhere and it was hard to move. I couldn't beat him with Lucas (my main), but i could with Toon Link
 

GofG

Smash Champion
Joined
Jul 6, 2005
Messages
2,001
Location
Raleigh, NC
Snake is a very, very difficult match up.

This is what you must do:

Jab combo. It comes out faster than anything he has. Literally, EVERY SINGLE MOVE THAT HE HAS gets beaten by Lucas's jab combo.

PKF spamming doesn't work against a good snake, because there will be mines in the way. One might give the advice "just hit the mines with PKT" or "Just let them hit you, it'll open up the stage and they don't do that much damage." Don't do this. The mines are killer. You'll be at 100% before you know it, and then you're just one of snake's jab combos away from being off the edge.

No PKF means no approach, especially when snake has the 'nade that keeps you at bay. You're going to have a hard time if Snake gets away from you. You want to keep him close. Most of all, if you get on the offensive, stay on the offensive. Take control of the stage, and keep control. Keep him on the defensive, because all he has going for him at close range is his jab combo, and, as I've mentioned, yours is better.

How do you get near him for when he does slip away from you? Carefully aimed PKFs, find a position to camp where he can't 'nade you, and watch the hell out for his missile thing. If you're brave, shoot a PKT off or two. That'll scare him, if he knows what he's doing. If it doesn't scare him, even better, because you can **** him up with it. The problem is that he has more long-distance pressure techniques than you, what with 'nades and the missile.

Try to take him to a small stage. Yoshi's Island is preferable, but smashville will also work. Try to keep him from putting down his dsmash mine as much as possible, that's the real killer. For god's sake, watch where he puts his b-down mine. Keep a mental tab at all times of where that mine is, because trust me, you aren't going to be able to see it all the time.

If this snake is roll-dodge happy, then pressure his shield with nairs. A nair to ftilt will get his shield looking VERY tiny, and the knee-jerk reaction is to let up on it. If you dsmash at the right time, it will hit him, after a nair>ftilt combo. If he's at a low enough percent, he's heavy enough that it will hit him twice.

Your damage should be coming primarily from jab combos, fairs, nairs, and utilts. When you get him to a respectable damage, start being more liberal with dsmashes and fsmashes.

However, he will not die off the side until obscenely high percentages. You must ledge guard. It is extremely difficult to edge guard a Snake. I might even call it impossible to do reliably. His recovery is simply too weird. PKTs don't REALLY work, unless you can read his recovery well enough. I've tried many times to PKT a Snake out of his recovery, and you have to get the timing right, because you have to put the PKT above him. It's too difficult.

If you know when he's going to up-b, it's better to jump out there with a fair. Sure, the knock-back isn't as horizontal as you might like, but it's a start, and it'll put more pressure on him to get back.
 

prOAPC

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 24, 2008
Messages
1,816
Location
Cartagena/Bogotá - Colombia
Try to take him to a small stage. Yoshi's Island is preferable, but smashville will also work. Try to keep him from putting down his dsmash mine as much as possible, that's the real killer. For god's sake, watch where he puts his b-down mine. Keep a mental tab at all times of where that mine is, because trust me, you aren't going to be able to see it all the time.
what about Norfair' he can't do his wavesmash thing, or Delfino Plaza, maybe his mines disapear everytime the stage change, please recomend me more stages
 

MalcolmM

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 27, 2007
Messages
1,565
Location
League of Legends, New Jersey
The C-4 is obvious...PK thunder or fire will stop the mines. the grenades and the missle are quite avoidable....these are just things snake uses to force u 2 approach. This is where the problem lies...once u approach...and u hit his shield....he (if hes good) is jus gonna f tilt or jab out of shield. Even tho snake is an extremely slow character in general...i have not found a move that is faster than these 2 moves...and if u did make it past...ur would probably clank so it wouldnt do any damage. So...if hes not good....nair and tilt all day cause its gonna work. but if hes actually worth playing...Down air above his shield and nair after since u will most likely poke his shield after those 2 attacks. throw out ur grab @ low %s....so u cant get punished too bad...and it thows him off his game. try empty hops to down smash since it will push him off ur shield. snake is an unorthodox character and forces everyone (except mayb DDD) to play very weird. or @ least thats my experience. oh and...when u hit that 100% mark....aside from the aaa combo and f tilt...ur gonna have to watch out for that up-tilt...the move *****.
 

Depressed Man

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 19, 2008
Messages
127
If a Snake player UP-Bs from below the stage and you can grab the Cypher (the helicopter thing), do so. Snake will fall to his doom (he won't get the recovery back). Well unless the Snake player knows how to C4 himself back up.

Watch out for stages with platforms. Snake's explosives have hitboxes below the platform. So for example, say the Animal Crossing stage, if a Snake player puts a mine on the moving platform then if your below it and the mine goes off, or the C4 goes off then anyone below it gets hurt. So if you have time, check levels and see which ones that applies to. Grenades also apply.

Snake can also set off his own mine with C4, creating a bigger explosion area. (pretty useful for edge guarding if your a Snake player).

Watch out for grenade stripping (well see if your friend knows how). If not then throw the grenades he/she tosses back at them if they're not cooked (timed so that they explode shortly). Essentially grenade stripping basically forces the first grenade Snake throws out to drop straight down. So even if you were to pick it up and throw it, the Snake player could just force the grenade to drop (Nasty trick for those who don't know about it, and it stops people from picking up the grenades).

GofG, really? I thought that Snake's jab combo pretty much had the most priority (well not against characters with disjointed hitboxes like sword characters). Though with Lucas most of the time it won't connect since he's so small. So a Snake player would have to use the knee from the tilt and then continue on with the combo to hit smaller people (it's really annoying sometimes).

Anyway, goodluck jinto_charge. I hate people with who trash talk and people with egos (the non-Freudian kind).
 

PKboy89

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 20, 2008
Messages
470
Location
Tuckahoe, don't say anything...lol
If you want to counter pick stages, delfino plaza is really good. Its always changing, so his dsmash mines will completely disappear, and his c4's will drop in the water a lot of the times. The only problem is the regular floating stage with the platforms. Platformed stages will always work to snake's advantage, he will simply just completely take over the field. Stay away from battlefield and lylat cruise, he will just blow you up to pieces on those stages. Final Dest is good, since its such a wide platform, his mines and c4's will be far spread apart, it does, however, give him more time for grenade tricks though. Smashville and Yoshi's are pretty good, since its only one platform. You want to try to turn his own mines against him, and its not that hard, because his mines can be his best, and worst weapon. Always keep an eye out, if u grab him, try tossing him into his own mines, the best way to embarass him, hitting someone with their own weapon is just complete disrespect, lol. You're pk freeze will be very effective since he has such a weird recovery, its easy to hit him with it, allowing you time to set up a bair spike or pk thunder chase
 

PKboy89

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 20, 2008
Messages
470
Location
Tuckahoe, don't say anything...lol
I really want to let you know that lylat cruise is the worst. Even though you should always know where his mines and c4's are, they are really hard to spot on lylat because of the way the stage is curved, especially on the platforms, Snake is one of my best characters, and I always do my best on lylat cruise.
 

Depressed Man

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 19, 2008
Messages
127
Platforms in general work in Snake's favor (as I mentioned above). Not only can you not go onto the platforms or below it without risking being blown up). I also recently learned from the Snake forums, that he can also stick you by jumping up a little and then using the C4 while in the air. Nasty, Nasty, Nasty.
 

NESSBOUNDER

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 19, 2002
Messages
3,167
Location
somewhere sunny
Bat his grenades back at him, lol.

No seriously, does your friend use the Fsmash much? If you see the rocket launcher come out, dodge roll behind him and up smash. It's a free hit and often a free KO.

The C4 isn't actually a huge threat unless he sticks it on you. And remember that you can roll through his mines to set them off without taking any damage. Apart from his grenades and nikita, he actually doesn't have many projectiles, and you have more priority in your close range attacks because of the disjointed hitboxes. He also has VERY laggy aerials and almost no way to protect himself from an aerial assault. So if you hit him into the air with a weak attack, and you think he's going to try and attack you on the way down, just shield it and then Fsmash or Dsmash him while he's in a lag state.

PK Thunder also hurts his recovery quite nicely.

If he likes to dive roll a lot, you should be able to figure out the distance he'll attack from, since this move has so much more range than any of his other ground moves.
 

Levitas

the moon
Joined
Jul 20, 2007
Messages
5,734
Location
Ann Arbor, MI
If you do it right, PK thunder should be able to get between 30 and 40% on a snake recovering with cypher.

If he like to rush with his mortar slide (or dash attack jump cancelled usmash), hit him with either a fair or if you see it coming, a PK fire. The main thing is that you then get out of that area so you don't risk getting hit by the mortar. Maintain medium spacing against snake. His Dash attack and mortar slide will be his favorite options if you do this, and they pose the least threat if you know how to deal with them.

DON'T close in for the kill. If you get close to snake, he'll either up tilt, forward tilt, or jab combo, and you'll die (for some reason, lol). You need to force him to come to you, interrupt him with a jab, and catch him off guard by following a single jab (or two jabs) with an fsmash. This'll get him offstage, and snake has a hard time getting back against lucas.

Edgeguard him with a pk thunder or whatever. If he starts to use cypher within your grab range, grab him. It doesn't matter if the cypher hits you for him to plummet. all that matters is that you ABSOLUTELY MUST NOT press any buttons or directions once you have the grab. If you grab him out of his up b, hitting him will allow him to up b again. However, a grab with no attacks or throws doesn't count. When he struggles out, he'll be over the edge with no jumps nor up b's due to this game's mechanics.

On a less usefull but more interesting note, lucas's bat can reflect snake's upsmash (it doesn't change it's trajectory, but now it can hit snake).

I hope that helps.
 

MTFFFG

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 17, 2008
Messages
88
Location
Hockey Town
What happened to the game? I thought diddy and pit were the *******s, but snake and metaknight have become our worst nightmares. Things sure have changed. I guess i have to train against snakes and metaknights more.
 

GofG

Smash Champion
Joined
Jul 6, 2005
Messages
2,001
Location
Raleigh, NC
MTFFFG, I've been saying that MK is a difficult matchup from the beginning (although I might add that I now destroy metaknights.)
 

MTFFFG

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 17, 2008
Messages
88
Location
Hockey Town
I haven't realized it yet but i guess since i really haven't played a serious snake player before i can't argue.
 

Deeja

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 13, 2008
Messages
46
Location
East Brunswick, New Jersey
Snake is definitely one of if not the hardest matchup for lucas, MK not so much. B sticking owns MK and he's incredibly light, which Lucas' powerful smashes take advantage of.
 
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