Ice Climbers Matchup Discussion REVAMPED - Week 1 Snaaaaaaaakeeeee

[JustNoOne]

Zelda is a ****.

Anyways now that I said that; I find her to be something Sakurai wanted for IC users to die in pain...

Her Fsmash, it's a multihit move that seperates us, it's a 5 hits move where each hit has 1 frame inbetween each hit. It's pretty gay since it's a multi hit move and it has range on us (I believe) so really we can't Fsmash through it.

The Dsmash, it's a pretty good GTFO move for her and it's pretty much keeps ICs away for a while, but it's like Fsmash a bit expect with 2 hits and it comes out faster but with a longer ending lag.

Both these moves have IASA frames at the same frame but when a Zelda Dsmashes, ICs have a better chance of grabbing her due to more ending lag.

Usmash is somewhat of a ***** to me, it has 11 hits to it and I suck at DIing this move so w/e.

Nayru's Love is also a prick since it seprates up but it's almost like a smaller version of Pikachu's Down Smash so DI to either side is okay, but I feel like it sends us far enough so that she'll have free time to run around and stuff, but if it doesn't hit we can jusr grab her after it.

Din's Fire is annoying because I have to worry about Nana not getting hit because of the 6 frames inbetween us, but she probabily won't get hit if we time a good air dodge.


ICs have blizzard agasint her since it does outrange her (I think). Also we could trick Zeldas into using Naryu, just wait for the move to end and grab.

Squall doesn't really work here since Usmash and Dsmash eats through it to a certain degree, but idk, it hits sometime.

Ice Blocks is funny... I just don't use it in this matchup since it's just not useful.


It's annoy but not as hard as MK hard or Snake hard. This is 60-40 or an even matchup.

 

[-Mars-]

Let me preface this by saying that I feel this matchup is either slightly in the Ice Climbers' favor to being even.

Grabbing Zelda when she's playing defensive is actually more difficult than you would expect. And I honestly think that Zelda can play defensive in this matchup as Ice Climbers don't have the freedom to just use Blizzard as an approach whenever they want.

As long as Zelda uses moves in her moveset that don't lag( fsmash, jab, dtilt), she should be pretty difficult to grab. fsmash is safe on block in this matchup. I really wouldn't use usmash much here unless obiously they are above me or something.

Zelda punishes very hard and landing her power aerials on Nana once they are seperated is scary for you. Nana could be taken out of the equation very quickly if they are ever seperated and Zelda has moves to do so.

I honestly don't know much about views from the Ice Climber players point of view so i'll refrain from making any other statements until then.

 

[momochuu]

I...must not play good Zeldas. This matchup didn't seem difficult at all. Annoying, but not necessarily hard.

 

[Hylian]

I've had some trouble with Zeldas before honestly...It's just that you have to be really really careful about her smashes so if you just kind of treat her like nothing you will lose >_>.

And it's hard to treat Zelda like she's worth a threat haha.

 

[Teh Future]

I think that the problem is there aren't any zelda players...

 

[Fly_Amanita]

I don't think this match-up is difficult. Zelda is kind of hard to grab, but she has a hard time doing anything to ICs if you're not being stupid and running into her crap.

 

[zeldspazz]

Personally I tihnk the thing thats going to make this matchup go one way or the other is how easily can Zelda seperate them. Off the top of my head I can thing that NLove, successful LK, and nair can easily seperate them, and her fsmash, dsmash, and Dins to an extent.

CGing her will be difficult, because we are not going to let you guys in grab range since Zelda has some quick GTFO moves like dsmash and NL. Since she's so light and floaty, you guys also might have to work the timing out for CGing too.

You outcamp us and our reflecting is sucky, but Im not sure how good IC are at approaches cus I think we outrange a lot of your stuff.

Right now, Im thinking 55-45 Zelda

Just my 2 cents, Im not that experienced here this is just theory based on my part.

 

[Prawn]

There's a really great Zelda player out here named Riot, I'll see what he has to say about it.

 

[FrozenHobo]

in my experience camping a zelda is useless because ice blocks <<<< dins. you can try to powershield, but she'll just keep on coming with those dins, one after another. once get in, even, you have to deal with her dsmash, etc. which **** up nana. honestly, a good zelda will make approaching a ***** and then punish you for getting close. if she plays it right getting the grab will be hard too. i say 60-40 against good zeldas, 50-50 against mediocre zeldas and 40-60 against noob zeldas. we can wreck, but no if they play right.

 

[mountain_tiger]

This is an interesting one. Zelda has a very good defensive game... which is completely nullified because of your desynched icebergs, meaning she has to approach you. However, she has several ways of separating you, including Nayru's Love, Nair, UTilt etc. And whatever you do, DON'T GET HIT BY USMASH! If she gets that in, you're screwed. She can be hard to grab when defensive, but you can force her away from that, so it's not so bad.

45:55 Zelda's favour, I say.

 

[Fly_Amanita]

Desynched ice blocks don't force Zelda to approach. I don't like ice blocks in this match-up in general.

 

[Kataefi]

Ice blocks are slower than din's iirc... even when desynched and sent alternately. I treat it much like I treat waddle dees for some odd reason, just maintain a good position and send din's to the ground. It can trade a lot with ice blocks, but I find it to be the better part of the trade.

Just be extremely careful of dtilt - if one doesn't trip, the other often does, which messes up the SDI to get out of it, especially for Nana. I also find her the easiest character in the game to get any kind of killer aerial on >.> I blame her AI haha! Or Popo's AI for those Nana enthusiasts out there who main her

 

[zeldspazz]

So, with Din's being faster than iceblocks, does this mean that the Ice-climbers must approach Zelda?

 

[The Truth!]

I'm semi-new to IC's so take what I say with a grain of salt, still I learned how to use IC's fighting a zelda a ton so Ill at least add what I know. I can't speak for high levels of play though like Hylain, Lain, etc.

From the zelda's ive played, her best route to winning this matchup for them is if she camps (I hate to say this since Im sure theres some zelda pro out there that contradicts this, but most zeldas will camp). If she tries to be aggressive she generally gets grabbed and punished in the air too easy. Camping, Zelda can control 75% of the stage. At the far end she most definitely outcamps ICs. You can maybe trade hits with ice blocks and dins, but its not even close to worth it. And she can throw dins into the ground to make sure it explodes even if she does get hit with an ice block. Im not even sure if its possible to power shield with both ICs, it pushes you back and thats no good because it eats your shield and you need to approach.

Because of din spam its tempting to try to run in and stay in her face and punish her long lasting moves, but...up close isnt much better. Her smashes and specials last forever, and her dsmash comes out quick so trying to punish them if shielded just doesn't work. Powershielding the attacks to a grab only works if you catch it at the beginning and are close enough, otherwise the shieldlag and long hitboxes will screw you if you try to release your shield or punish. Its better to just be patient if an attack hits your shield as tempting as her laggy moves might be.

The problem for Zelda is that she gets owned in that 25% of the stage she doesnt control so long as your patient and dont run into junk, and unfortunately for her it's an easy position for the IC's to take against a campy zelda. If you stand close to her but just outside the range of her smashes she really can't do anything to you. If she dins she gets grabbed. Basically anything else she does from there she can be tilted, blizzarded or grabbed; while she has a very hard time punishing you. Up close she cant really nyru your blizzard unless it hits the tail end of her attack, otherwise itll knock you out of the blizzard animation and shes stuck finishing nyrus with enough time for a grab. She might try to retreat, but eventually will run out of stage. And if she tries to go above or through you can punish her in the air with your better aerials and it puts her at risk of being grabbed.

yeah <_< I typed more then I thought I would. But I'd say IC's have a clear advantage as long as you dont run into stuff, basically what fly said.

 

[Hylian]

Do people write my name like that on purpose?

 

[FrozenHobo]

Do people write my name like that on purpose?

they do it just to **** with you.

 

[choknater]

zelda is very garbage against ic's. well, better than sheik lol

just dont get hit by fsmash and u will win LOL

 

[FrozenHobo]

zelda is very garbage against ic's. well, better than sheik lol

just dont get hit by fsmash and u will win LOL

zelda's doing it wrong lol. trust me, if you can find a good zelda you won't find it to be so easy.

 

[DZhou]

zelda is very garbage against ic's. well, better than sheik lol

just dont get hit by fsmash and u will win LOL

Speaking of which, wouldn't it be better to discuss Sheik as well, because most people switch back and forth (except maybe against ICs)?

 

[momochuu]

Mm...good call I guess. Most people treat them as two different characters. What does everyone else think about this?

 

[-Mars-]

That would be a good idea if I would actually ever consider using Sheik against Ice Climbers...........which I wouldn't.

 

[Fly_Amanita]

The best Sheik on the west coast went Ike against me last time we played.

 

[-Mars-]

Who? I don't even know of any Sheik players on the west coast.

 

[Firestormzero0]

yeah its good to discuss, i mean might as well... and yeah gl to all sheiks who decides to go up against an IC.

 

[Hylian]

There is no point in discussing shiek honestly. I played a shiek main who has NO clue how to play Zelda and after 1 stock against my climber he switched to Zelda LOL.

No one is ever going to play shiek against IC's, even if it's their only character.

 

[Fly_Amanita]

Who? I don't even know of any Sheik players on the west coast.

Champ.

Spoiler

10char

 

[-Mars-]

<3 would......he thinks Sheik doesn't get hard countered...........don't know why he thinks that i'll try and get him in this thread.

Edit: oh s*** i forgot champ and chok were out there lol.

 

[r3d d09]

That would be a good idea if I would actually ever consider using Sheik against Ice Climbers...........which I wouldn't.

Now i know what to play against you
hopefully i will be maining IC next tourney.
or just play kennys' IC's and just get CG'd xD

 

[Cloud9157]

Sheik sucks against Ice Kids.

We outcamp with Needles, but thats about it. No range whatsoever, so Bair is probably the move to poke your shield, along with SH Fairs.

Best bet for splitting is Ftilt lock>Utilt or Dsmash. If they get split that should be it for Nana. Sheik has quick moves that can get you in the air, which is where you don't want Nana. But since Ftilt has awful range, its super risky around ICs.

I'd say 8-2 or 75-25 at the least.

 

[-Mars-]

Now i know what to play against you
hopefully i will be maining IC next tourney.
or just play kennys' IC's and just get CG'd xD

Noooooooooooo! I want you to keep playing DDD

 

[momochuu]

Eh, I'll just invite the Shieks and do this as one matchup. Chances are they won't even contribute much. =7

 

[r3d d09]

Noooooooooooo! I want you to keep playing DDD

Screw that. I hate getting in ftilt locks and dinnnnnnn. no comment.
Beastly zelda player right here

 

[stealth3654]

ICs make Sheik mains cry on the inside.

If someone is actually going to play this match-up as Sheik, they will probably camp with needles to force you to approach. Then, if the Sheik decides to play really campy, once you get close, the Sheik will just run away and camp more. Sheik doesn't really have a multi hitting attack (excluding the chain and needles) and Sheik has to get in close to get some hits in, so IC can easily just shield grab > -1 stock if the Sheik makes even the slightest error in spacing.

Even if Sheik does separate IC and kill Nana, Popo has his down throw CG on Sheik > forward smash . One thing to watch out for, though, is that if you only have Popo left, Sheik can grab release > DACUS for a quick kill.

 

[KRDsonic]

I would never use Sheik against IC in a serious match, though I do it in friendlies quite a bit for fun.

Umm... I don't know much about the IC side of it, so I'll say what little I know of it from Sheik's side.

Sheik gets outcamped due to ice blocks stopping Sheik's needles, and she can only send both back with her needles if she has multiple needles, so Ice Blocks are too fast for that.

I generally Ftilt them when I get the chance, though the Ftilt is hard to get in... Umm... chain helps a bit at times to space away from their grab range, though it's risky.

She has trouble separating them too, though when she does she can chase Nana all over the place.

I generally don't get kills against them when they're together unless it's a needle gimp or something.

Umm... I'm not that good at giving matchup summaries in matchups I get ***** in, sorry :/ Smart Sheiks will use Down B.

 

[JustNoOne]

Sheik uses Transform.
Sheik turns into Zelda.
Zelda uses Fsmash.
It's a 1 hit KO!
Ice Climbers fainted.
You gain 0 EXP.

It's sorta ironic how we can do crap to Sheik and Zelda can do crap to us... Best example to show why Transform is awesome for Sheik.

Ice Blocks makes Sheik approach, Ftilt is annoying a bit but it's okay since there's two of us. When Sheik separates us, she can chase Nana away.

She's somewhat easy to grab... Aerials are idk and I'm sleepy...

 

[Cloud9157]

I'm pretty sure Ice Blocks do not beat Needles. Sheik has more range with the projectiles than the ICs... Plus they take almost no time to charge.

 

[momochuu]

Rough Olimar summary is done. I'll check it tomorrow. *Sleeps*

 

[FrozenHobo]

I'm pretty sure Ice Blocks do not beat Needles. Sheik has more range with the projectiles than the ICs... Plus they take almost no time to charge.

not against desynced ice blocks. you can't create them that fast.

 

[KRDsonic]

not against desynced ice blocks. you can't create them that fast.

reguardless, ice blocks are faster still, even synced. They block Needles in the same way they block Falco's lasers.

 

[Cloud9157]

They still have less range, synced or not, and Sheik charges Needles pretty fast. Two needles will stop the Ice Blocks and then the rest will go right at them.