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If they add the update/patch people want...what Zelda changes do you want to see???

COM7

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Brawl has been, although many Melee fans would deny this, very successful, its attracted a large player base and has proven to have a bit slower, but more balanced competitive scene, but many people like to talk about adding a patch, to fix glitches, to change ruined aspects, to fix some clear programming flaws(Press down B, you'll see what I mean) and during spanish class a while back we decided to have a 25 person rant about things we'd like to see in a brawl upgrade, and after my 100th idea to upgrade Sheik and Zelda, people were at my throat...lol, where as most people said "ADD MORE CHARACTERS!!!" I was just saying "Make mine top tier..." lol

Just curious to see what other people wanted to see as well, because for those of us who main this fine maiden we all have our little...issues.

Personally, I'd like to see just a few things with Zelda(I ranted more about Shiek...)

FARORE'S WIND
Now I know what you're all thinking, why change one of Zelda's best moves? Well, looking at the other character's recoveries, namely beasts like Pit, Snake, Sonic and ROB, you have to think, why can't they all be cancel-able? Farore's Wind does have our nice little explosion on re-appearance but, c'mon, have't you ever thought about how cool and useful it'd be to use the dair on an off-staget opponent by using Farore's Wind to aim it.
What I propose for Farore's is that they remove the danger fall and just disable a second Farore's until you hit the ground. Plus we still have the explosion preventing us from appearing to do a 'OMG JESUS LIGHTNING KICK' the second we appear, also if they gave the explosion some real, Vanish level knockback then the idea of combo-ing TOO cheaply is eliminated.

Also, just another aspect, it would be nice if she would warp through non-drop down platforms if the surface was within the range, like if you're playing on battlefield and get caught under a corner...I can understand the rising leaps of Marth, Link, Mario etc. to get caught but a TELEPORT? I mean, I'm not saying that the range should be extended if we'd end up within the platform but if the final point would be above it then we should appear there, aspecially if say, we're knocked under the Lylat or Corneria ships, its not like she's traveling across the solid object, but she's bypassing it... Yeah, it would make the game a little easier for Zelda but she's a slow character, with mainly horizontal jumps and one big *** teleport that announces itself quite a while before it goes off... And we need to be on stage at the end point, we can't catch the stage on our way up like say, Fox or Falco...

TRANSFORM
This really needs no explanation, pre-load Shiek, this way she doesn't blow 5 valuable seconds changing if we feel the need to switch things up...Z&S were intended as one character with two sides, let us use them both!!!

DIN'S FIRE
Yes, our amazing Din's, another strong move that most people will wtf about being on this list, but the thing is, a while back someone thought that Zelda's slaps when creating and detonating the orb delt damage(which was later revealed to be Mario's fire balls creating that illusion), and when you think about it, that makes sense, Zelda's hands LIGHT ON FIRE when Din's is being thrown out, naturally giving both detonation and the launch damage periods would be cheap but when detonating Zelda seems to be channeling a lot of power, maybe give us a little 4% stun hit on the chop where she detonates the explosion, with the knockback of fireball(Mario's) or something, just a little stun, maybe to save ourselves but mostly just so we have some crap version of defence, to at least get some revenge hit while they FSmash us away(Its not like this would be able to clank cancel anything...just give us a secondary option if they come in close...)

DAir
Gannondarf can use the stomp against grounded characters, hers is essentially his, just a bit harder to hit with and Zelda is MUCH lighter so it's riskier...really, it just means that if the opponent's off guard or already stunned we could punish them, or if they do something laggy, but nearly all character's have extended or disjointed USmashes to cut through this, maybe it'd hit through...Jiggly's? but why would Jigglys leave you alone in the air anyways?

USmash & FSmash
Make them in-escapable...please...I mean, people don't escape often but just remove the chance entirerly, Link got such a nice mod on his USmash, and TL on his FSmash, give up some nice grounded garenteed kills(Well, they can always Air Dodge...if they time it perfectly, or Shield)

There ya go, as much as it sounds, when you think about it, it doesn't really change Zelda' play style, we have some strong kills still, just now a little chiping aspect thrown in(Din's), we have a semi-good downward approch(The stomp), some more mindgames(Farore's) and two of our killing moves...kill(although the Kicks, UTilt and Explosion do that as is)
 

FirebyrdXX

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Mar 30, 2008
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I don't really think her smashes or Din's needs adjustment. I will however agree that Transformation should be shorter (even tough that'd be bordering on cheap), and Farore's does need adjustment. Namely, the ability to DI MUCH better after reappearing, like Ness's PK Thunder. Ever notice how Zelda will fall for an entire second after reappearing before you can move her again? This is killer when you appear just a little bit above and to the side of a ledge, because you're just going to fall past it. Change that.
 

SinkingHigher

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Zelda's one of the best players in the game. According the charts, anyway. She has to have her faults or she's just be a frickin' God. If you learn how to work around them, I have to say, even the transformation can be used to your advantage.
 

Mega-Japan

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FARORE'S WIND
What I really REALLY want to see change is this move is the aserial lag in it. It makes Zelda one of the easiest characters in the game to edge-hog. Alright, just be on the ground and travel directly upwards (default Farore's Wind) and try to move left or right... YOU CAN'T, not at all until at least you half way down, why? I mean Ness and Lucas' PK Rocket can move inmediately right away after they do it, Lucario can even tilt his recovery, so what's the whole point of this 50-frames lag?

TRANSFORM
Well, my comment here is pretty much what you said, Sheik needs to be pre-loaded, just as if there were 3 characters in the fight instead of 2 so I don't really know why they even messed up on this one. 2.75 is TOO much.

DIN'S FIRE
The only change I want here is that Din's Fire doesn't cancel your ability to attack or recover when used in midair. This is the reason why something as dumb as Mario's FLUDD or Squirtle's Water Gun can KO Zelda whenever she uses Din's Fire near an edge, and in a stage like Smashville or Final Destination, she will probably always be near an edge, so what gives?
Sure it makes her float and that's probably the reason why it makes her unable to move at all afterwards, but seriously, look at Sonic, Luigi, Wario, Pikachu, they have many ways of recovery without even using their special recovery! Luigi's Green Missile and Pikachu's Skull Bash are like some of the best horizontal recoveries and it doesn't cancel their normal recoveries at all. Din's Fire for recovery isn't exactly too great so what gives? so yeah...

DAir
Agreed on what you say though I want to see another change. If they don't want you to Lightning Meteor your opponent when they're flat on the ground, then at least make them trip or something. So that you can actually attempt the move, hit them and don't have to worry whether you'll be severely punished or not. Seriously, it does pretty much absolutely nothing when done on the ground unless the opponent has 120% damage which makes them have a bit jump.

USmash & FSmash
I pretty much agree with everything you said here as well so it's good...
 

leogeo2

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Pretty much what you said previously. I can't stand it when people just fall out of the Usmash and Fsmash.

Transform should have at least 1 second of invincibility after it's done being casted being that it takes long to do or just somehow make it cast much quicker than what it currently does.

Din's Fire making you unable to move after using it in mid air is a *****. Also I don't understand how it doesn't take any priority what so ever over most character's air attacks so they can just hit it away, completely ignoring an explosion.

The lag from Wind is just awful, should be gone.


Those are about my only complaints. I don't really think there is anything else that could be adjusted on Zelda without making her overpowered. Shiek on the other hand... man do I have a list for him.
 

SinkingHigher

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Din counts as a recovery. You can get some DECENT horiztontal recovery if you do it right.

I don't see how Zelda gets edge-hogged so easily because of FW.
 

leogeo2

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Din counts as a recovery. You can get some DECENT horiztontal recovery if you do it right.

I don't see how Zelda gets edge-hogged so easily because of FW.
After using it, you are viable to just eat a smash because you can't move for a bit. Your options are to grab the ledge from FW or if your opponent is right on the edge to angle it to go towards the center of the stage so that you don't land next to your opponent. Best case scenario is them getting hit by the attack but if they block the attack portion of it, your going to eat whatever they decide to throw back at you.
 

SinkingHigher

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If they're on the ledge, get onto the stage. If they're on the stage, get on to the ledge.

It's great against edge-guarding because you can grab the ledge while attacking them if they're close to it. If they're actually grabbing the edge, Love Jump to a better location if necessary, and FW onto the stage. If you get even a bit away from them, they won't have time to climb up to the stage, get in position, and charge a smash. Or, if you play Sheik too, it's a great time to Transformation Glide over to the edge, and then pop out and Vanish.

Yeah, it's not the BEST for recovery, but I think it does a great job.
 

mr_kennedy44

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I think FW is fine the way it is except for the lag after reappearing. It's sort of like Wolf's recovery in a way.

I fully agree with you about the transform time.

Din's I think is fine the way it is now. Although having it count as a recovery move is annoying. That would be the only change I would want.

I agree with what has been said about d-air.

Even though I have never had someone escape my smashes I know it is fully possible to escape from it. I agree with what you said.
 

Mega-Japan

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If they're on the ledge, get onto the stage. If they're on the stage, get on to the ledge.

It's great against edge-guarding because you can grab the ledge while attacking them if they're close to it. If they're actually grabbing the edge, Love Jump to a better location if necessary, and FW onto the stage. If you get even a bit away from them, they won't have time to climb up to the stage, get in position, and charge a smash. Or, if you play Sheik too, it's a great time to Transformation Glide over to the edge, and then pop out and Vanish.

Yeah, it's not the BEST for recovery, but I think it does a great job.
Naryu's Jump (or Love jump as you call it) takes too much timing, fail and it will cancel your second jump, it isn't really a good idea.
 

Kricu

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FARORE'S WIND
Now I know what you're all thinking, why change one of Zelda's best moves? Well, looking at the other character's recoveries, namely beasts like Pit, Snake, Sonic and ROB, you have to think, why can't they all be cancel-able? Farore's Wind does have our nice little explosion on re-appearance but, c'mon, have't you ever thought about how cool and useful it'd be to use the dair on an off-staget opponent by using Farore's Wind to aim it.
What I propose for Farore's is that they remove the danger fall and just disable a second Farore's until you hit the ground. Plus we still have the explosion preventing us from appearing to do a 'OMG JESUS LIGHTNING KICK' the second we appear, also if they gave the explosion some real, Vanish level knockback then the idea of combo-ing TOO cheaply is eliminated.

Also, just another aspect, it would be nice if she would warp through non-drop down platforms if the surface was within the range, like if you're playing on battlefield and get caught under a corner...I can understand the rising leaps of Marth, Link, Mario etc. to get caught but a TELEPORT? I mean, I'm not saying that the range should be extended if we'd end up within the platform but if the final point would be above it then we should appear there, aspecially if say, we're knocked under the Lylat or Corneria ships, its not like she's traveling across the solid object, but she's bypassing it... Yeah, it would make the game a little easier for Zelda but she's a slow character, with mainly horizontal jumps and one big *** teleport that announces itself quite a while before it goes off... And we need to be on stage at the end point, we can't catch the stage on our way up like say, Fox or Falco...
Luthien does a great job in explaining how this lovely move works and I'm fairly certain he explains why it cannot go through said platforms. Thread with info. Sure all these changes would be nice but if we added all of these changes along with all the changes that you suggested for Sheik, we may have a new broken character.
 

Mega-Japan

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Oh! Oh! I'd like to have Toon Zelda/Toon Tetra (Sheik Clone?)! She looked sooo cute in Wind Waker. :D
Great super awesome idea, except that I don't see how Tetra could become a Sheik clone >.>

Then might as well have Toon Ganon, right? lol
 

Sonic The Hedgedawg

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I'd like only a few changes I could think of:

No DI out of smashes or nair
Less Lag on transform
Din's should NOT send you into a free fal if used in midair.
FW shouldn't get gimped by stage lips so easily.
Zelda stomp can sweetspot on ground
 

popsofctown

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since she's in the top half of characters, positive improvements would only hurt character balance. However, because the delay on transformation varies from machine to machine and game to game, that needs to change. They could make it the same length, but it needs to be fair. Everything else should be left alone, like i said she's top half, probably not so good as to need nerfs though.
 

Brinzy

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stop hoping its not going to happen.I hatge to be mean but really, iote\s not gonna happen.
No ****. We can talk about it if we want to. You're not bestowing any knowledge upon us with that post, so don't bother with any more like it.




I do want Din's to not have a freefall, but more importantly, I'd want to be able to cancel it. You know, send it out and be able to shield out of it. The shield itself probably isn't important, but being able to fake a Din's on someone who can absorb it could work. I would use it to fake someone with a Din's close up, and while they're dodging, just punish them.
 

SinkingHigher

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Naryu's Jump (or Love jump as you call it) takes too much timing, fail and it will cancel your second jump, it isn't really a good idea.
Press jump before you press B. You can get it every time. You can move horiztontally, about 3/4 FW. Similarily the Transformation move can move Zelda about this distance of a FW horizontally, and she'll still have her second jump as Sheik, AND the two jumps you get from Vanish. AND Din's fire can move her quite a distance if done right, after a horizontal Love Jump too gets you really far and you're protected by the ginormous blast radius of the Din on the way down. With all of these ways to recover... if you didn't die from the hit, you can recover from ANYWHERE.
 

Newuser12345215

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For Transformation, they could make it short like 1 second(preloaded) while on Zelda's on the ground, maybe longer in the air. Maybe it takes 3 seconds(like now) to transform in the air, if Zelda touches the ground while still transforming, she'll transform in 1 second.

If it's too short in the air, then Vanish would be useless, just transform, Farore's wind, transform back.


About toon Zelda. Hmm, I wonder if the character models are in the game disc, when is the Action Replay or whatever going to come out for the Wii so we can see everything inside the game disc?

Personally I'd prefer Roy coming back. I posted an idea for Roy.

I actually thought of 2 other clones for Marth also. For some reason, after playing Marth so much he's a lot more fun to play with than other characters which leads me to want Marth clones.

since she's in the top half of characters, positive improvements would only hurt character balance.
Well, not if you're balancing ALL characters to the power of Snake, Meta Knight, Marth, or etc.

Of course, "balancing" characters to the level of Snake, Meta Knight, Marth, etc in 1v1 play would hurt team play or FFA balance but FFA isn't really balanced or competitively played anyway though teamplay is.

Although, balancing all the characters to the power of Snake or Meta Knight might make the game too easy. I mean if everyone had a good recovery like Snake's for example...

So you're right, balancing all the characters to a mid tier character will be a good idea.

I would say Zelda is mid tier, so balancing all the characters to Zelda's level instead of to Snake's level might be better.
 

Brinzy

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I would say Zelda is one of the better characters in the game... as in, within the top 10.

Also, it's impossible to balance a game like this. There are abilities that people have that flat out beat other characters' abilities, and the only way to balance anything is to play the same exact character.
 

Sonic The Hedgedawg

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Well being able to DI out of multihit attacks is stupid.... at least... ones like Zekdas... that should be an across the board change
 

Stiputation

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Oh my goodness. You guys take things so technically!
I was actually just thinking of a few fashion changes. But to compete with you guys, I'll add some...educated opinions in too I guess. Even though I hate the fact that it wrecks my peanut sized brain.

Anyways, I was really hoping for a nice hair change. I really want to see Zelda's hair out instead of in that ugly..piece of **** that shes got it in as of current. Hello, Sakurai and designers of Twilight Princess? We are not still living in Mesopotamia and living in the year negative two thousand and eighty-four. We don't need little rat ugly looking pony tails these days. But anyways, I would certainly like to see Zelda's hair let out and actually in a lighter shade too. MAYBE EVEN STREAKED *O*

Anyways, she also needs some more pretty accessories and minus the old colonial pieces of **** thats shes wearing now. Lets add some sterling silver please? Why? Because it would TOTALLY compliment those magic attacks that she has. Some pretty bangles would be nice. Ecspecially on top of those gloves. Oh, I would also like to see a nice necklace too. Above all, though, I want a sash. A sash with a very pretty ribbon like thing that trails behind Zelda as she moves and does her totally hot smashes. Ohhhhhhhh yes. 8]

Anyways, lets get to the actual important stuff.
I really do agree with what has been said about Farore's wind. I would definitely like it to be more free as far as falling goes. Now of course, I've acknowledged the fact that Zelda's naturally a slow faller. But would it hurt for it to be a tad more movable when falling? Despite the fact that I only use it when teleporting upwards to reach the stage, and to kick some noob *** when up in the air to fully utilize the explosion aspect. But seriously, whenever I teleport straight up in the air, I'm never fully able to go where I want to on the stage because I literally have to wait 14231 frames to be able to move Zelda. Not to mention, when I am, I'm not fully able to move ENTIRELY freely without yelling "GO! ****IT!" So yeah, that should definitely be altered. The lag after using it needs to be changed as well. Seriously, try falling off the stage with your opponent literally edge guarding you to high heaven. If you make it RIGHT above the platform and land, the opponent literally has enternity to get a nice KO in. Which is actually why I'd much rather catch on to the ledge.

As far as Din's Fiyah goes. USING IT IN THE AIR IS A MAJOR PAIN IN THE ***.
I hate the fact that you go into helpless mode once you use it. I've literally accidentally slipped off the ledge using that ish and couldn't get back on. godshoot, I cant tell you how many times I've played pros (go me) and made a dumb mistake using it trying to edgeguard. I propose, that Din's fire be altered in a way that doesn't send you into helpless mode when using it in the air.

Nayru's love is pretty nice as is. Although I would love the crystal bit to be alittle more exaggerated. Not for offensive or defensive purposes, but just for show.
 

Iris

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Din's Fire: Make it slightly weaker at the expense of it not sending her into free fall. Nuking the stage while recovering will help with her being defenseless from above. I don't think any other projectiles send characters into free fall and the damage/knockback decrease isn't all bad. Din's really isn't a kill move anyways and using it in the air could leads to awesome combos.

Transform: Remove all invincibility frames and make it as quick as it was in Melee.

Dair: Make the sweetspot stronger and once the victim hits solid ground give them a bunch of aftershock. This way they can't instantly recover from it once they hit the ground and it gives Zelda time to make it back to the ground or move in for another attack. If this doesn't happen, making it sweetspot on the ground is fine, even if it doesn't launch characters upwards off the ground. The attack power and hitstun is enough.

Farore's Wind: Make it auto sweetspot much easier. Zelda's pretty big, she's got very long arms, let her ledge grabbing range be bigger.

Nair: More knockback on the last hit. It's harder to get all hits to connect than her smashes, make it worth the while.

Up tilt: A bit more horizontal range and a disjointed hitbox. What's the point to a magic arc if it can't be extended far from her body?

Fsmash: Make the knockback more horizontal. I've had people fly horizontally from bad DI or getting snagged on the last hit or something, but it should be more horizontal in normal circumstances anyways. It'll make it more useful!

Grabs: Give her a throw that kills and a better grab range. The speed fits the characters, but the range does not.
 

Oh Snap

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Din's cancelling. Like...

Use Din's Fire, cancel it, but it goes maximum range and explodes. While it's travelling to it's target, you're' free to do whatever you want, such as...USING ANOTHER DIN'S FIRE. Double dins'....mmmm...that'd be awesome :D

Oh yeah and give her a higher jump. Man, everytime I knock someone in the air in Usmash, I immediately jump and attempt a uair. But as you all know...Zelda isn't really a jumper =/
 

PsychoKnight

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Jul 10, 2008
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Take off lag time from Din's Fire(sorry noob so I dont know if I used lag right), when performing the move in midair of the ledge, it be great if she could recover or attack after, because she is left very vunerable in the air.

Also I wouldnt mind if neutral A had a little more to it then just that one move(even though it really is useful).

Also of course, I wish her transformation could be a bit faster.

Imagine if they made her get some more cushionnnn =p to make her not that light.

But really, I dont want her to be god-like, because if she barely has any flaws...it means anyone else could just start using her, I dont mind her as she is, i work around the flaws and keep practicing to work on covering her weaknesses, I really want to master Zelda so yeh..
 

rageagainst

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since zelda is definately above mid tier... I don't think she needs buffing, just bug fixing like NOT BIENG ABLE TO DI OUT OF SMASHES, and making the transform time not Wii dependant (though I don't think this is possible without having Zelda and Sheik loaded as one character, the invis frames are there while the game is loading a new character... how lazy nintendo)
 
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