Ike Boards General/Q&A Thread

[Mr. Doom]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjfqQz2ZrJY
It wasn't true! But it still worked.

 

[Ussi]

What a nub

 

[Berserker Swordsman]

Hey guys, I'm quitting Smash for Soul Calibur 3.

Bye.

 

[Helix King]

:o... hmmm, well... it is fun, does it have a meta game/community still?

 

[san.]

Hey guys, I'm quitting Smash for Soul Calibur 3.

Bye.

No you aren't. We're supposed to play some Brawl tomorrow >=D

 

[Rangerike]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjfqQz2ZrJY
It wasn't true! But it still worked.

Whoa, that Ike has the same texture you use!

 

[Blubolouis]

@Berserker Swordman

don't do that man, I enjoy your posts.

 

[Berserker Swordsman]

:o... hmmm, well... it is fun, does it have a meta game/community still?

I lol'd. Hard. Of course not, silly. Well, not that I know of.

No you aren't. We're supposed to play some Brawl tomorrow >=D

Yes, I need a good break from work. @.@

@Berserker Swordman

don't do that man, I enjoy your posts.

I'm honored lol. And I would quit for BlazBlue waaayyyy before I'd pick up SC3 again.

 

[Ussi]

Soul Caliber is another Dead or Alive

 

[Helix King]

Did DoA even EVER have a community? I know SC SORTA kinda had one. A little.




I think......

The chinese girl who's name started with a X was top tier...

 

[Berserker Swordsman]

Soul Caliber is another Dead or Alive

Except good. Well, until 4 went and put Star Wars characters in.

And yes, Xianghua was top tier. This is the only game where I've picked the best character as one of my mains before knowing so lol.

 

[Omari]

Is there a frame data thread for Ike? From my perspective, I know Ike's safest approaching options (attacks to stick out) are jab/n-air/f-air but I'd also like to understand why these are safe. If there are any more, what attack(s) are they? Here's what I've been able to grasp so far:

Jab: least disadvantage out of ground attacks (least punishable), able to move (non-static) on second hit, shield baiting (forcing blocks), potential follow-ups at all areas onstage (u-tilt on stage, f-tilt near ledges (slip animation & usually safe), d-tilt at ledges (instant spike & in several cases death), etc.

N-air: Arc based (covers Ike's back as well as his back), low amount of landing lag (barely punishable), u-tilt or jab although I'm not fully sure why other than follow ups (is this follow up guaranteed?), covers most (if not all) types of dodges, etc.

F-air: Same as above (excluding follow ups as far as I'm concerned) with additional spacing.

Thanks Ike boards.

 

[Ussi]

:| i bought Soul Caliber II and thats it.


Sharkie didn't ya sticky the frame data thread?

 

[•Col•]

Is there a frame data thread for Ike?.

Look at this picture carefully.

EDIT: Or this one.

 

[Omari]

Thanks, didn't see that.

 

[AN(M)ist]

btw, the female fighter in SC starting with x is Xiangua. she alright. close to mid ranged fighter. but i like kilik more.

 

[Ussi]

in II i played Link :x

 

[Omari]

After browsing the frame data for a while I'm having trouble understanding how the formula (mainly duration + hit-lag), hit-lag itself (yes, it's when both parties are "frozen" but I'm at a stand still exactly how it is determined) & where frame advantage comes from. Does the recovery (end) matter? (The amount of frames it takes for an attack to return before being able to perform another one?)

Given data:

Ike's Jab (example):
Hits: 3-4
Earliest Jab 2: 11
Earliest Jab Loop: 15
IASA: 17

Shield Stun: 1
Shield Hitlag: 6
ADVANTAGE: -12


Facts taken:

Start-up: 2 frames
Hits: 3-4
Active: 2 frames (3-4)
Earliest Jab 2: takes 7-8 (11-3=8/11-4=7) frames before Ike can combo into his second jab)
Earliest jab Loop: auto jabbing
IASA: example: jab-cancel

Shield Stun: opponent's shield (when jab connects) is stunned for 1 frame
Shield Hit-lag: I'm not grasping this fully, may someone explain? How do you determine the hit-lag itself? Thanks.)
Advantage: amount of frames opponent can punish before you're able to perform another action

Formula: [hit (3)] + [shield stun (1) + shield hit-lag (6)] - [duration (16) + hit-lag (x)]

[3] + [1 + 6 (not sure exactly what this means)] - [16 (1 frame less than IASA, I understand) + x (not sure exactly what this means either)]

[3 + 7] - [16 + x (variable)]

10 - [16 + x] (here's where I got stuck)

All I know, is that x has to be equal to 6 in order for this equation to become true (advantage = -12). The hit-lag itself however still remains a mystery to me. Pardon all the math Ike boards but I'd really appreciate your help.

 

[san.]

The trend I notice is

[IASA #] -[first frame it hits] - [shield hitstun] - [1]
then *-1. That's the shield advantage.

For aerials it's probably the

IASA (landing) - shield hitstun - 1
*-1

 

[benaji261!]

in II i played Link :x

Me, too :D I also played as Talim and Xianghua, but Link was main.

 

[Ussi]

You forgot frames till landed san.


So [in the air frames] + [IASA] - shield stun - 1
*-1

Aerials don't just land the moment ya hit them.

 

[san.]

The advantage was calculated without the additional airtime frames.


That's why the aerials' are calculated with perfect timing, while the ground attacks with the initial hitbox instead of the end of the hitbox.

 

[Omari]

The trend I notice is

[IASA #] -[first frame it hits] - [shield hitstun] - [1]
then *-1. That's the shield advantage.

For aerials it's probably the

IASA (landing) - shield hitstun - 1
*-1

[17] - [3] - [1] - [1] (Where did this 1 come from?) then [*-1] (What do you mean by "[1] then *-1"?) I'm understanding where you're coming from except for the two 1s at the end of your formula.

Thanks san, I'll definitely look more into hit. Usually, I've noticed from the fighting games I play competitively that there is start-up, active & recovery frames for each attack performed.

 

[san.]

*-1 is because of negative advantage on shield. The other one...

Idk, probably something to do with some extra frame of lag, or the transfer to negative advantage. I just looked at what patterns were there.

When looking at jab1 again

Hit on: 3-4
Earliest Jab 2: 11
Earliest Jab Loop: 15
IASA: 17

Shield Stun: 1
Shield Hitlag: 6
ADVANTAGE: -12

The advantage for jab1 IASA is -12, but for jab loops (I assume is jab cancel to jab1 again), it's -10.

Olimar's grab comes out on frame 11. Maybe we can jab1 tether characters over and over again if they shield? It takes some risk to do usmash or aerials OoS because jab1 or jab2 will probably outrange/clank it.

Jab2 is ~-6, the same as many grabs.

Becomes even more interesting if it hits on frame 4 (which is probably a spaced jab).

Also, with Usmash out of shield, are jumping frames taken into account like aerials?

 

[Omari]

Yes, I look for patterns as well & thanks for your input as it's much appreciated.

Hm, if the frame advantage regarding jab loops = -10, then I don't see why not it can't be used against Olimar. Doesn't all characters have 1 frame of super armor when grabbing? Even still, that's on the hit of & not the frame before (I don't want to make any assumptions though).

Mario's grab connects on frame 6 (like you mentioned), but I find to be non-safe due to grab armor. Usually, I'll stick out jabs to bait shield (blocks), watch DI+SDI for potential follow-ups, create pressure (slip animation (dependent on two factors though)) when at ledges, tilts when next to ledges & smashes when near ledges), etc. Mario's jab advantage is 1 frame less than Ike's (-11) but when used with a high angle fire ball can make matters much worse (additional shield stun, maybe additional hit-lag...not sure exactly).

When you OoS, you're canceling the jump I believe which is 5 frames (doesn't matter if short or full hopped). I believe there's no difference when using the C-stick after shielding>jumping because there won't be a charge animation (unless the player is holding attack).

The good thing about Ike's jab is that he can take advantage of potential landing lag regardless of spacing (even though you'd want to stay out of your opponent's max range while maintaining yours (poking/"footsies") to insure that they have the least punishing options as possible available) & becomes dynamic (moves) on the second jab. With Mario, the hit-boxes are different (only his fist is angled upward to allow us to take advantage of potential landing lag) than Ike's so impeccable spacing for us is mandatory.

 

[Ussi]

Also with olimar, no grab armor~ he pulls you in while you are attacking. And your hitbox stays out until its done anyways.


Only tether thats hard to jab repeatedly would be Link/TL since their grab is 12 frames yeh?


Still frames in the air makes more sense to account for

 

[san.]

Olimar is weird. As long as you hit him, it could cancel out the grab or even just let you jab him. Jab might have enough reach.

In the end, doesn't really matter too much. Jabbing people's shields as it continually slides farther and farther back is fun, though.

 

[Ussi]

Oh.. Just thought of this..

What the heck is your avi san.?

 

[theeboredone]

Blanka being a composer.

 

[Ussi]

Composer or conductor?

 

[san.]

Yeah, got bored of the avatar.

EDIT: Ryo, Ben stop lurking, it's 3AM already just post =)

 

[Helix King]

Now what is it ?

(It was Gentlemen Blanka)

 

[san.]

Geralt from the Witcher.

 

[Ussi]

I woke up at 6 and the sun was shining brightly =_=

 

[AN(M)ist]

I woke up at 4:35am and went back to sleep. Even though I shouldn't have. How ignorant of me...

 

[Teh Brettster]

Guys

I'm pretty happy.

That is all.

 

[Senliten]

Guys

I'm pretty happy.

That is all.

can't tell us why?

 

[theeboredone]

He got himself a third gf in 3 mins. Speed dating ftw

 

[san.]

Guys

I'm pretty happy.

That is all.

Not this kind of happy I take it?

 

[Teh Brettster]

Just had a good past day.
That's it.

Also, tournaments may start happening in Dallas again, yaaaaay.
And they may be MK banned if they happen, which I suppose is cool.