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Incorporating FGC terminology?

Revven

FrankerZ
Joined
Apr 27, 2006
Messages
7,550
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Cleveland, Ohio
This was brought up in the MioM Facebook group but I thought this would be better to be discussed here, with everyone.

As we all know, SSBM is pretty much going to be at Evo. The Smash community has always been a whole separate thing from the other fighting games and subsequently, the FGC. Whether or not it has to deal with their perceptions of us or our perceptions of them, you cannot deny that part of this separation is also because we literally act like we're not part of them. This is only solidified by using different terms than them for various things that are otherwise the exact same thing between games.

Friendlies vs casuals. Non-tourney matches that range from non-serious to serious.
Dittos vs Mirrors. Same character match-ups.

And similar things like the above. (It's early and I've forgotten some other differences/examples).

I feel like going into Evo, we should be adopting or getting used to using the above terms like mirrors and casuals instead of dittos and friendlies. Mostly for the sake of communication and being on the same page with the other communities of players that are going to be at Evo.

You can debate all you like about why you prefer saying friendly vs casual, but the fact is if we want to blend more in with the other communities, we need to start using the more commonly used terms vs our niche terms (niche meaning things like ditto). It also helps make that transition with the other communities so, so much easier. Like SkiSonic said on one of the MioM episodes, stop acting like they're alien or that much different from us. They're not!

It makes the adjustment smoother and less awkward, wouldn't you agree?

What other terms can we adjust to going into Evo? Can we break away completely from friendlies, dittos, etc.? Or is it just something everybody is too used to to completely throw away?
 

Renth

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 8, 2005
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5,938
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Colver, PA
If I go to evo or any other smash event

I'm going to use the terms I've been using since 2005.
 

Tekk

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 10, 2009
Messages
1,112
Location
Lyon, France
Uh, yeah. That's a decent idea on paper, but people will never change their habits that easily, let alone change their vocabulary.

Not doable imo.
 

Varist

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 7, 2011
Messages
1,603
Location
Austin
Not even an important issue.

Commentators should be briefed on using FGC terms because it would be the smart thing to do, but outside that it's too irrelevant of an effort.
 

Kink-Link5

Smash Hero
Joined
Jul 10, 2007
Messages
6,232
Location
Hall of Dreams' Great Mausoleum
I don't think blending in should be a concern for our game or our community. Not to be different just for the sake of it, but the colloquialisms are part of what makes the Smash scene's identity.

Friendlies
Dittos
Warmups

But **** "Tomahawk"

#freeiceclimbers
 

Ziodyne

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 10, 2013
Messages
571
Location
UCLA
We can however explain to confused fgc people what our terms mean and why we chose to stick to them rather than switch over.

:phone:
 

Airrider

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 11, 2012
Messages
127
Location
A swedish island.
I don´t think we will be able to break such a "tradition". Besides it´s not a big thing really.

And "casuals" is a stupid word :p
 

prog

Priest of the Temple of Syrinx
Joined
Mar 11, 2008
Messages
2,155
Location
Brooklyn, NY
D1, Alukard, Bum are working on a video explaining some FGC terminology and how it applies in melee.

Note to self: Look up gear rental.
 

Blistering Speed

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 18, 2008
Messages
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Dot Dot Dash Dot
We didn't get into EVO just for the opportunity to homogenize ourselves. Melee is an amazing community, and its attained that status entirely by its own means. Have some pride in its individuality.
 

tarheeljks

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 18, 2006
Messages
1,857
Location
land of the free
Meh, this degree of assimilation seems unnecessary. Though the names are different, they are plenty intuitive so it's hard to see them as a significant barrier to other communities experiencing melee the way we do

:phone:
 

JPOBS

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 26, 2007
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Mos Eisley
The only thing that needs to happen is that commentators need to briefly and succinctly explain common terms like edgeguard, bair/nair/etc, on stream.
 

Strong Badam

Super Elite
Administrator
Premium
BRoomer
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Messages
26,545
We didn't get into EVO just for the opportunity to homogenize ourselves. Melee is an amazing community, and its attained that status entirely by its own means. Have some pride in its individuality.
Completely agreed. As we move forward as a community, we must not sacrifice what makes us great in exchange for more exposure. This is about as subjective a change as you can get, changing our slang? Unnecessary. If we do integrate with the FGC they'll learn what friendly, ditto, etc. means and it'll be fine.
 

Wobbly Headed Bob

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 11, 2010
Messages
367
I almost always cringe when people and commentators try too hard to associate Smash technique and strategy terms with fgc terms.

There are some terms in Smash that are just stupid like tomahawk. There would only be benefit if they were called "empty jumps" instead. There are some terms that could be done away with without losing anything.

Don't go around saying "yomi" instead of "mindgames" though. That is hard cringe.
 

Acryte

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 30, 2005
Messages
986
Yea dude we don't need to change our terminology to "join the club" as it were lol. We have our own customs, tradition and history. You don't just forget that or throw it away. Other people can accept those terms, and to be honest for the mostpart they don't really need an explanation because they're straightforward... If you said someone was playing a friendly vs playing tournament matches, I think they can put 2 and 2 together... whereas terms like johns need some explanation. Its all good though, good commentators will cover all the smash lingo and draw the audience into our world.
 

KrazyKnux

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 19, 2005
Messages
1,489
Salty runback is such a key phrase, and it's used in many facets of life.

Black Ops 2: same stage being picked twice? Salty runback.
School: retaking a test? Salty runback.
Basically doing anything twice would constitute a salty runback.

I've never heard the term "rage stage", but it sounds dumb and is weak imo.

On the main topic, as many people have said there's definitely no reason to change our vocabulary. They should be able to understand what a "friendly" or "ditto" is, just as I can understand what a "casual" or "mirror" is. I don't think any of those terms are dumb as they all sound fine and make sense. Other terms, like "tomahawk", are just hilarious even though they're not useful descriptions. I assume some things will be explained, and those will be the terms that need explaining.
 

Mr.Jackpot

Smash Lord
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WA
Stop using FGC like it's a collective hivemind, even SRK is split between stuff like 236/QCF and HP/FP and Smash terminology is fine as long as we teach people what it means.

Melee is a fighting game, we are FGC, and now is a great time to start thinking that way.

#oneunit
 

LLDL

Smash Hero
Joined
Apr 27, 2007
Messages
7,128
FGC terminology sounds fine when applied to Melee. Sounds a little strange, but I listened to it as if I was an outsider, and it makes perfect sense. If we could get some well known fgc people on the mic, who actually know what is going on in Melee (Alukard?.....yipes I think used to play smash) along with a normal melee commentator, that could call for some hype videos.
 

MaskedMarth

Smash Ace
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554
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Chicago area
Doesn't Alukard still play Melee? At least teams.

I agree that commentators should be able to bridge the terminology gap.
 

UltiMario

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The entire and final answer is no.

Use the terminology the game has developed. There are terminology differences WITHIN the FGC (some games using slightly different terminology) because of the different mechanics of the game.

There is no reason to change ours. We've been to EVO already people, we don't need to do anything special over it.
 

Gadiel_VaStar

Smash Champion
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GadielVaStar
Just be yourself, have fun, act mature, dress for success, and Melee will be gold @ EVO. There is no reason to alter our terminology or persona to be "accepted" by the FGC.
 

Bones0

Smash Legend
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Aug 31, 2005
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Jarrettsville, MD
I think you have it backwards. We should make our own terminology so addictive that traditional FG players start using them. Idk if players empty hop and immediately grab in other fighters, but using that as an example, it'd be awesome to hear someone playing a traditional fighter use the term tomahawk. Then they could tell their friend, "yeah, that actually comes from Melee because they have a similar tactic." "Wow, dude, I never realized how awesome Melee was until I heard you reference a tactic I can relate to with a cool term!"
 

Varist

Smash Lord
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We didn't get into EVO just for the opportunity to homogenize ourselves. Melee is an amazing community, and its attained that status entirely by its own means. Have some pride in its individuality.
I never would have thought that helping outside viewers understand our game better by pointing out terminology parallels, was equivalent to homogenizing ourselves until we were naked of all of our individuality and left without pride

jesus spud, don't scare me

Salty runback is such a key phrase, and it's used in many facets of life.

Black Ops 2: same stage being picked twice? Salty runback.
School: retaking a test? Salty runback.
Basically doing anything twice would constitute a salty runback.

I've never heard the term "rage stage", but it sounds dumb and is weak imo.

On the main topic, as many people have said there's definitely no reason to change our vocabulary. They should be able to understand what a "friendly" or "ditto" is, just as I can understand what a "casual" or "mirror" is. I don't think any of those terms are dumb as they all sound fine and make sense. Other terms, like "tomahawk", are just hilarious even though they're not useful descriptions. I assume some things will be explained, and those will be the terms that need explaining.
i gave your mother a salty runback down her throat last night if you know what I mean

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120428223359/adventuretimewithfinnandjake/images/8/8e/Hehehehe.gif
 

Bones0

Smash Legend
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Aug 31, 2005
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Jarrettsville, MD
Bones: "Damn, Knux, where's your comeback for Varist's post?"
KrazyKnux: "i left my comeback on his mom"
Bones: "LOOOOL"
 

Varist

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 7, 2011
Messages
1,603
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Austin
loooool that's some technology right there. I used that freshman year against some fat mexican who tried to steal parking from my swaggin wagon. i was like "oy where the petrol m8" n he said "wut u say abot me n fkin **** m8 i swear" so I was like "i'm tellin it init so shove a grout down ur gabber or we'll see what comes about" and he was like "oi i ****ed ur mum m8 wheres ur comeback to that" so I sayed to im "if I wanted my come back I wudda wiped it off ur mum's chin now bugger off yew little ******" and we parked our cars on top of each other I made him suck me off you know it.
 

Onomanic

Heaven Piercer
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May 4, 2008
Messages
2,263
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Westwood, NJ
loooool that's some technology right there. I used that freshman year against some fat mexican who tried to steal parking from my swaggin wagon. i was like "oy where the petrol m8" n he said "wut u say abot me n fkin **** m8 i swear" so I was like "i'm tellin it init so shove a grout down ur gabber or we'll see what comes about" and he was like "oi i ****ed ur mum m8 wheres ur comeback to that" so I sayed to im "if I wanted my come back I wudda wiped it off ur mum's chin now bugger off yew little ******" and we parked our cars on top of each other I made him suck me off you know it.
u wot m8

10wotm8s
 

Zhea

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 10, 2012
Messages
962
Location
San Antonio Texas
Dude you just posted a big quote from James Chen on why we shouldn't do this. I don't think there is a single smasher who wouldn't be nice enough to explain the parallels to anyone curious.
 

Laijin

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 10, 2004
Messages
5,848
Location
Rylai the Crystal Maiden's Igloo
If I go to evo or any other smash event

I'm going to use the terms I've been using since 2005.
This. Why should we care what the FGC thinks? If they wanna play smash they better get used to me using terms i've been saying for the past 9 years.

We don't need to blend with the FGC if they dont want us. its w/e
 

CloneHat

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 18, 2009
Messages
2,131
Location
Montreal, Quebec
No way!

FGC terms should not be treated as sacred:

-RPS (grab/block/DP) situation every 3 seconds: let's not think about that, it's just "Yomi"
-basic spacing that has to be done at all times in every matchup: "Footsies are important in this matchup"

When UltraDavid was saying the neutral game in Melee looked like "Marvel footsies" I almost felt sick
 
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