Infinites: Why, exactly, are they allowed?

[RDK]

*PHOENIX DOWN* [/thread]

With Snake facing the edge and being quite close to it, he can infinite people with downthrow. And finish it off with a KO:ing U-tilt.

How does this work, exactly? Is it anything like D3's standing infinite, because I've never seen anyone use it, and I've never seen any videos of it.

 

[CStrife187]

why was this revived? let a bad thread die already

 

[DippnDots]

Yuna as much as I love all your posts, ideas, etc., and as much as I respect you, I think you're really arrogant.

 

[Pearl Floatzel]

Little known fact:
Snake has an infinite on, I believe, everyone. Unless Kirby and Jigglypuff or something fly off differently from his downthrow.

With Snake facing the edge and being quite close to it, he can infinite people with downthrow. And finish it off with a KO:ing U-tilt.


You can dodge every single grab. You cannot dodge/avoid every single hazard, you cannot at any time prevent your opponent from getting the Smash Ball every single time. And not all Final Smashes are dodgable because their hitboxes stay out for way too long. Some Final Smashes can be comboed into so you'd have to dodge every single move your opponent throws out at you in order to not get comboed into them.

Why you cannot dodge all hazards:
* You cannot dodge hazards that stay out for too long, like a whole bunch of Mario Circuit go karts.
* You cannot prevent your opponent from hitting you into the hazards.
* Some hazards are just too fast for the human mind to possibly react in time.


You cannot dodge every single Final Smash:
* You cannot dodge Zamus' FS in the air because its hitbox is huge, it sucks you in and it stays out for a really long time.
* You cannot dodge Peach's Final Smash because it stays out for way too long. The only way to dodge it is to already be on the edge because the camera zooms in on Peach, making it impossible for you to make it there once the FS has started. You cannot jump, 2nd jump and Up B as most characters because they will land before the FS ends.
* Try dodging the Landmasters, just try. The Landmasters themselves are huge hitboxes when in motion.
* You cannot dodge the Final Smash if I D-tilt you as Marth and then immediately Final Smash because you're still in hitstun.

What happens when you dodge a grab:
Your cooldown is less than that of your opponent's depending on how early you dodge the grab. Worse case scenario, the advantage is pretty even, you cannot grab/hit him back but neither can he. A dodged grab is always safe. A dodge Mario Circuit car? Not very safe.

I'm not posting my opinion on infinites, because frankly, some of your arguments I agree with. There were just some holes in some. (Some, some, somesomesome)

Hazards arguments:
The long-lasting hazards argument:
What? I think this should be part of the next argument, because it's actually stupid easy to not get hit. Stay either on the bottom, or on the grass, or on the top, whichever may apply.
Now, the Halberd bomb, laser, or claw I can see. Two are unpredictable, and one homes in on you. Or the Norfair lava. Or Big Blue. Or, even, the wind on Green Greens. It's things that are either gigantic (lava/wind) or seek you out (Halberd) that would be a problem. Not the karts.

Can't Prevent Being Hit:
Okay. I can see that when someone is deliberately trying to hit you, hazards could be a problem. But this argument, I think, is a bigger problem for you. See later in the post.

Some Hazards Are Too Fast:
Fine. You can have this one.

Items Argument:
No problems here.

Smash Ball:
See above.

Final Smashes:
All good, except:
Setups:
Fine argument, but see Can't Prevent Getting Hit part of my post.

What Happens When You Dodge a Grab:
Okay. Again, you can have it.

Don't Get Grabbed:
Here's where the conflict, for me, comes in.
You stated, earlier, that problems with stage hazards were that you cannot avoid getting hit into it by a smart opponent.
Okay.
But...
Many attacks are , in fact, slower than a grab. Most attacks strong enough to prevent you from dodging a hazard involve setup.

So, my question is,
How do you, Yuna, justify stating that you cannot avoid being hit into something, or set up into something such as a stage hazard, a wall, a Final Smash etc., but you can avoid being grabbed during every match you play against every Falco, Dedede, Ice Climbers, Marth (For Ness) or, in fact, any character?

Not trying to provoke, but wondering.

(Bonus question: How do you accomplish anything while doing this type of evasion?)

 

[Yuna]

*PHOENIX DOWN* [/thread]

How does this work, exactly? Is it anything like D3's standing infinite, because I've never seen anyone use it, and I've never seen any videos of it.

The Divine Mister Y answers your prayers:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Qs6sxaAJpiM

Yuna as much as I love all your posts, ideas, etc., and as much as I respect you, I think you're really arrogant.

Arrogance isn't all that bad if it's justified.

I'm not posting my opinion on infinites, because frankly, some of your arguments I agree with. There were just some holes in some. (Some, some, somesomesome)

So you're arguing against me because you just want to argue? Or because you'd like some of my snarky sarcasm thrown your way?

Hazards arguments:
The long-lasting hazards argument:
What? I think this should be part of the next argument, because it's actually stupid easy to not get hit. Stay either on the bottom, or on the grass, or on the top, whichever may apply.

"Staying out of something's range" =/= Dodging

The term used is "dodging". I'm not dodging bullets by staying in my room while someone tries to shoot me by targeting a tree in my backyard. I'm not dodging race racers by sitting in the audience while the cars zoom by. And I did not dodge The Tsunami by not being anywhere near Asia at the time it hit.

Now, the Halberd bomb, laser, or claw I can see. Two are unpredictable, and one homes in on you. Or the Norfair lava. Or Big Blue. Or, even, the wind on Green Greens. It's things that are either gigantic (lava/wind) or seek you out (Halberd) that would be a problem. Not the karts.

The Halberd laser, very slow, homing thingie takes a while to home and then even more time to actually start shooting.

Can't Prevent Being Hit:
Okay. I can see that when someone is deliberately trying to hit you, hazards could be a problem. But this argument, I think, is a bigger problem for you. See later in the post.

Why are you even arguing against this if it cannot be argued against? Just to mention "there are bigger fish to fry"?

Final Smashes:
All good, except:
Setups:
Fine argument, but see Can't Prevent Getting Hit part of my post.

"Don't get hit by Marth's F-tilt, U-tilt, D-tilt, jab, Fair or Dance of Blades." (I believe a great majority of those moves combo into his Final Smash). Oh yes, really easy to avoid. While we're at it, why don't we argue a Perfect match where neither side ever gets hit?

Some setups are easy. Others hard. Other Final Smashes require no setting up since they're transformations and ridiculously overpowered such at that. The fact that there are useless to pretty bad to average Final Smashes does not negate the fact that broken ones (that you cannot dodge) exist.

Don't Get Grabbed:
Here's where the conflict, for me, comes in.
You stated, earlier, that problems with stage hazards were that you cannot avoid getting hit into it by a smart opponent.
Okay.
But...
Many attacks are , in fact, slower than a grab. Most attacks strong enough to prevent you from dodging a hazard involve setup.

"Most attacks strong enough to prevent you from dodging a hazard"? Does this translate into "Most attacks which will hit you strong enough to launch you off the bottom part of Mario Circuit and into racing cars"?

No one ever said that you can avoid being grabbed every single time (humanly) because humans make mistakes. No one ever said that Donkey Kong vs. DeDeDe wasn't a horrible matchup because it is. We're just saying "So what?" and "It's not like you get auto-grabbed every single stock! Play smarter!".

So, my question is,
How do you, Yuna, justify stating that you cannot avoid being hit into something, or set up into something such as a stage hazard, a wall, a Final Smash etc., but you can avoid being grabbed during every match you play against every Falco, Dedede, Ice Climbers, Marth (For Ness) or, in fact, any character?

Why should I have to justify something I've never said?

(Bonus question: How do you accomplish anything while doing this type of evasion?)

You accomplish not dying, a very vital "AT", mind you.

 

[DEV64]

Your an idiot period Yuna infinites should be banned. I tried dodging the grabs from Melee1's ice climbers just about imposible he grabbed me at low percent and by the time I some how got out I had an insane amount of percent and killed me about a second later!! Dodge it, ******!

 

[dragtyson]

Look, if you don't like infinites and CG's then stop complaining about it. Accept it. And if you're behind the reason that it's unfair, or that's it's un-fun then stop competing. If you're playing for fun then you shouldn't be so serious about it, after all you're playing for fun and not anything serious. As stated numerous times, competitive smashing is about winning and if you want to have fun, go have some friendlies. Not trying to point fingers or trying to go against anyone, just stating my opinion.

 

[Pearl Floatzel]

So you're arguing against me because you just want to argue? Or because you'd like some of my snarky sarcasm thrown your way?


"Staying out of something's range" =/= Dodging

The term used is "dodging". I'm not dodging bullets by staying in my room while someone tries to shoot me by targeting a tree in my backyard. I'm not dodging race racers by sitting in the audience while the cars zoom by. And I did not dodge The Tsunami by not being anywhere near Asia at the time it hit.


The Halberd laser, very slow, homing thingie takes a while to home and then even more time to actually start shooting.


Why are you even arguing against this if it cannot be argued against? Just to mention "there are bigger fish to fry"?


"Don't get hit by Marth's F-tilt, U-tilt, D-tilt, jab, Fair or Dance of Blades." (I believe a great majority of those moves combo into his Final Smash). Oh yes, really easy to avoid. While we're at it, why don't we argue a Perfect match where neither side ever gets hit?

Some setups are easy. Others hard. Other Final Smashes require no setting up since they're transformations and ridiculously overpowered such at that. The fact that there are useless to pretty bad to average Final Smashes does not negate the fact that broken ones (that you cannot dodge) exist.


"Most attacks strong enough to prevent you from dodging a hazard"? Does this translate into "Most attacks which will hit you strong enough to launch you off the bottom part of Mario Circuit and into racing cars"?

No one ever said that you can avoid being grabbed every single time (humanly) because humans make mistakes. No one ever said that Donkey Kong vs. DeDeDe wasn't a horrible matchup because it is. We're just saying "So what?" and "It's not like you get auto-grabbed every single stock! Play smarter!".


Why should I have to justify something I've never said?


You accomplish not dying, a very vital "AT", mind you.

Arguing: Why not?
And who doesn't love sarcasm?

Out of Range=/= Dodging:
These tsunamis/Cars/bullets/stage hazards are telegraphed. You hear the warning beep? See that big triangular sign over there that comes right before the cars?

Arguing:
I thought it'd give the post a little more substance.

Final Smashes:
Yeah, the Landmaster's broken. Super Sonic's broken.
You attribute the fact that people get grabbed to the fact that no one can be perfect. Okay with you if I steal your argument here?
Grabs can be set up for, if the player has enough skill and really want to. And when it instantly takes away a stock, it's pretty desirable to grab them. Maybe grabs are slightly harder to set up for than Final Smashes, but for, say, the Ice Climbers, it's actually pretty easy.

So you can have your argument, I'll have mine. Deal?

I think that deals with the rest of the post.

Except the bonus:
Are you referring to Death Teching?
I never got the hang of it myself.

 

[Dark Sonic]

Grabs can be set up for, if the player has enough skill and really want to. And when it instantly takes away a stock, it's pretty desirable to grab them. Maybe grabs are slightly harder to set up for than Final Smashes, but for, say, the Ice Climbers, it's actually pretty easy.

The ice climbers infinite is hard to set up for several reasons, and is very very easy to avoid.

You have to have Nana right next to you when you grab them. Very rarely happens against good players

Ice Climbers have terrible grab range, making it even more dificult to get a grab in general

Ice Climbers slide very far. Well, there goes shield grabbing. If you are good, and your opponent is also good, then you are not going to get a grab. Because even though you are good...Ice Climbers suck at grabbing.

DDD on the other hand. Well, you just fireball camp, bair camp (with DK), and I don't exactly know what you do with Bowser, I think he's just screwed.


Have fun with your infinites now. They're great for weeding out n00bs.

 

[samdaballer]

until the infinites are being used to the point that it is the sole reason people are winning tourneys, THEN it will be banned, as of now, no

 

[z3r0C0oL]

they are allowed cause some people with tiny ***** need to win at all costs instead of actually fighting someone.

Its a cool thing to learn and to with friends. But when it comes to a match, its just shows a lack of skill if thats what you need to resort to to win matches.

 

[Luxferre]

I really think that Patsie is right here in this issue.
Because I play Samus, and I don´t think it´s great to lose a live just because of a ****ing grab.(DDD)
It takes 1 button push to lose an live, of course some people can say that you can dodge it.
As far as I know, D3 has a good grab range, which means if at an tournament, I play Samus againt D3, and because its normally on FD or something, lets face it: There is no way that D3 wouldn't grab you once on FD, on 5 life stock.

I don´t know about you guys, but I don´t think that it is very fair to be killed with just a grab.

Just my opinion...

 

[FishkeeperTimmay!]

Almost every infinite in this game completely avoidable through smart play.

IC's are easy to seperate AND not get grabbed by. Rediculously easy. Heck, if an IC grabs me, I'm usually surprized enough that I don't care if I lose a stock. I screwed up knowing they could do it. My opponent DESERVED the stock.

DDD is easier to argue, because he's got a ******** range. He can also force approaches on certain characters. So, he isn't as easy to avoid.

However, when your playing at a TOURNAMENT LEVEL, you deal with that crap, or stop playing. This kind of stuff exists in every game, ever. Except Pong. Pong is perfectly balanced as far as I know.

Suck it up people, or play Pong.

 

[Luxferre]

Kinda sad that the word "fairness" and "fun" don't exist on "TOURNAMENT" Level.
But I ain't gonna stop playing because of that, but I just think its unnessesary to allow Infinity CG's.

 

[CStrife187]

Luxferre, in order for DDD to infinite samus the samus must be at a high enough percent when they get grabbed that the DDD has time to jab twice between each throw otherwise the decay on DDD's grab makes his range too short to regrab you. In order for you to get to that percent, you're close to dead against a good DDD anyway, so get over it.

:edit:
also, to all the people who just started posting here and haven't actually read anything for the past 68 pages, look back a few pages to where I posted the link to the tourney vids of a DDD vs. a DK. The DK player encountered the DDD player earlier in the tournament, and used Falco because he was afraid of the infinite. His Falco lost. When the same two players faced each other later in the tournament, the DK player used DK and won. This not only proves that the DDD infinite isn't broken, it also proves that you're better off using DK, even though he can be infinited, than using your secondary because you are afraid of the grab.

long story short: play better than the other guy and you'll win; infinite or not.

now please, let this thread die.

 

[MookieRah]

Because I play Samus, and I don´t think it´s great to lose a live just because of a ****ing grab.(DDD)
It takes 1 button push to lose an live, of course some people can say that you can dodge it.

Either pick up a different character to fight D3 or learn the matchup. Don't act as if you have a right to complain about ****ty matchups, cause MANY MANY characters have horrible matchups, and 90% of the time the smartest move is to play multiple characters. Besides, this is Brawl, you don't have an excuse not to learn multiple characters. If your reasoning for not using other characters is cause you truly and deeply only enjoy playing Samus then it's not something you should expect people to respect in a tournament community which focus is on skill than fun.

As far as I know, D3 has a good grab range, which means if at an tournament, I play Samus againt D3, and because its normally on FD or something, lets face it: There is no way that D3 wouldn't grab you once on FD, on 5 life stock.

Wait... why is it normally on FD? You do realize you can strike stages at most of the better tournaments right?

they are allowed cause some people with tiny ***** need to win at all costs instead of actually fighting someone.

No, they beat you fair and square. You are being a "*****" by complaining and johning when you could focus that energy at learning to deal with infinites.

Its a cool thing to learn and to with friends. But when it comes to a match, its just shows a lack of skill if thats what you need to resort to to win matches.

Yeah, cause IC infinites definitely showcase a lack of skill, or that by limiting yourself with D3 based on it hurting peoples feelings is also the act of someone without skill.

 

[Ace55]

Except Pong. Pong is perfectly balanced as far as I know.

Suck it up people, or play Pong.

You won the thread, could I sig that?

 

[FishkeeperTimmay!]

Kinda sad that the word "fairness" and "fun" don't exist on "TOURNAMENT" Level.
But I ain't gonna stop playing because of that, but I just think its unnessesary to allow Infinity CG's.

Its sad that people like you assume that we don't have fun at tournament, nor that you think that we like fair play. We just know that many things, including infinites, are able to be defeated, through our skill, which is what we like to show off.

 

[samdaballer]

Its sad that people like you assume that we don't have fun at tournament, nor that you think that we like fair play. We just know that many things, including infinites, are able to be defeated, through our skill, which is what we like to show off.

real talk
10char

 

[ShadowLink84]

Unless of course the infinite really is broken in which there is no way to counter it and thus becomes so popular the game is centralized on that one character.

<.<

Since teh IC' infinite does not fit this, well then its not gonna be banned.

 

[Nintendogs]

Your an idiot period Yuna infinites should be banned. I tried dodging the grabs from Melee1's ice climbers just about imposible he grabbed me at low percent and by the time I some how got out I had an insane amount of percent and killed me about a second later!! Dodge it, ******!

What is wrong with you people!? The Ice Climbers are MID TIER not god tier. 50% of characters are better than them! 75% of IC chaingrabs that people use regularly are ESCAPABLE! Look in the Ice Climber character discussion and ask somebody a question or look in a guide! Everybody is just becoming lazier and lazier!

 

[Ekoix.exe]

Unless of course the infinite really is broken in which there is no way to counter it and thus becomes so popular the game is centralized on that one character.

<.<

Since teh IC' infinite does not fit this, well then its not gonna be banned.

Wrong, Banned in Texas alredy.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Yeah but its not as if all the tournaments are held in Texas.

 

[FishkeeperTimmay!]

Wrong, Banned in Texas alredy.

Ya, the TO who does most of the tournies there banned it, but trust me, it is NOT well received by the majority of the competitive community.

 

[CStrife187]

please

let

it

go

if you want them banned, and clearly the tournament crowd will only ban something when it dominates tournaments, then use these supposedly broken inescapable infinites and win enough tournaments for TOs to ban them.

Also, stop ignoring my clear evidence of actual tournament matches. Youtube search CBK and watch the difference between the two sets where CBK goes falco against zelgadis, and the set where he goes DK. Solid, empirical evidence right there.

 

[-Big_-Blue 9]

Why arent they banned? simple
Dont get grabbed/hit
easier said than done but thats why you practice...right?
its what all pro players say, or so ive heard

 

[PaintedGhost]

Why is meta-knight allowed in tournies? He, himself is like one big infinite

 

[Grunt]

Why is meta-knight allowed in tournies? He, himself is like one big infinite

It's a bird, it's a plane,...No, IT'S...
SENSE!!!

thank you.

 

[Vyse]

please

let

it

go

Couldn't agree more. When I saw this topic come onto the first page again, I was like 'wtf?'.

The answer is simple:
If you don't like infinites, organize your own tournaments without them.
If you like infinites, organize your own tournaments with them.
If you want a middle ground (Soft ban it, limit it etc.), devise your own middle ground, and organize your own tournament with it.

Just because SWF decides on a reccomended ruleset, doesn't mean you should go ahead with it, heck, there are still scrub tournaments all over the place that enforce free for all with items on.

 

[MDZ]

The only thing I don't like about infinites is that it makes me use my time to find a way to counter something that took certain character-players 5 minutes to learn. And that's time I'd rather spend aimlessly throwing eggs!

But really. Who cares. I'd go ahead and repeated what has been said over and over for the past 69 pages, but that's boring.. so I'm gonna say this.


LOLZ I DON THINK IT SHOUDL BE CALLED CHAIN GRAB CUZ THER R NO METAL chAIN INVOLVED!!!!!!

 

[juki]

3 words. Dont get grabbed.


Besides, infinites are a good way for some middle/lower/lowest tier charecters (eg ic's) to counter some higher/highest/uber charecters (eg snake)...

 

[Yuna]

Out of Range=/= Dodging:
These tsunamis/Cars/bullets/stage hazards are telegraphed. You hear the warning beep? See that big triangular sign over there that comes right before the cars?

Only you can still get comboed into them. And what's up with ignoring the fact that I'm specifically saying "You cannot dodge all stage hazards"? This does in no way mean "You cannot dodge any stage hazards" or that "You cannot stay out of the range of stage hazards".

Some stage hazards cannot be dodged simply because their hitboxes stage out too friggin' long. By dodging, I mean airdodging, spotdodging and rolling.

You attribute the fact that people get grabbed to the fact that no one can be perfect. Okay with you if I steal your argument here?
Grabs can be set up for, if the player has enough skill and really want to. And when it instantly takes away a stock, it's pretty desirable to grab them. Maybe grabs are slightly harder to set up for than Final Smashes, but for, say, the Ice Climbers, it's actually pretty easy.

But ICs are not on the chopping block. Despite the fact that they can infinite everyone (but themselves, unless it's just one Popo), they're not even Top Tier. Which means they're far from "too broken" and should thus not be banned.

It's not even "pretty easy" to set up for grabs with Ice Climbers because of how the game works now.

So you can have your argument, I'll have mine. Deal?

Only mine's valid and yours is not. And mine was just "It's not like you get auto-grabbed and auto-infinited as DK against D3". I never said "DK has an easy time dodging D3's infinite/winning against D3" or anything like that.

 

[Hype]

3 words. Dont get grabbed.

I hate it when people say this, It's not that simple everyone will get grabbed sooner or later. It just bothers me to hear this line.

 

[ChronoPenguin]

3 words. Dont get grabbed.

What the ****!?

Thats like saying "Don't get hit" or It's simple to become rich "Just don't suck"
Thing is your Going to get hit, and lot of rich people do suck, and Whitney Houston does a lot of crack....movin on.



Your option against CG's is to have a SECONDARY, this is your Iron Clad Solution.
Choose 1 that excels differently from your Main and has a good difference in their match ups.

 

[Nintendogs]

I hate it when people say this, It's not that simple everyone will get grabbed sooner or later. It just bothers me to hear this line.

Not if the opponent is actually good. You can only get about 1 grab out per match in the semi finals/finals of a tourney.

 

[zB.]

The majority of inifinites I can think of off the top of my head are situational enough (whether it be the setup or the particular matchup) that they can be very avoidable if you use your brain. Sure, the Climbers do just need to get a grab to start up an infinite on anybody, but as has already been stated, don't get grabbed.

With good spacing and with smart use of projectiles (if you have them), you can greatly reduce your risk. And if you're using a character that can't do this (and a lot of the cast can), then you're placing yourself at a distinct disadvantage. Hell, the Climbers also have to be together for it to work, and with their terrible grab range, you have to be right next to them to get grabbed. And the timing and distance you have to move the climbers between grabs varies from character to character. Some characters are a pain to get the timing too (Lucas, for example). Of course, pro IC players will have the timing down to exactness, but even then, your opponent messing up is kind of part of playing against real people as opposed to computers.

Really, until we start seeing the IC's coming out on top of tourneys consistently, I wouldn't be complaining too much. And as for the other infinites, like I said, just try and avoid them. It's possible if you plan your character choices smartly and just in general know about their setups.

 

[CStrife187]

let me tell you a story:

A long time ago, there was a game on the Nintendo called "Super Smash Brothers." Initially, this game appeared to be another stupid party game, but as time went on it was discovered that, like in traditional fighting games, links of several hits could be strung together by a skilled player to form a combo. Because of the length of many of these combos, almost every character had a 0-death on most other characters. Did this break the game? NO! people learned to sort of dance around getting hit by the moves that started these combos.

In 2001, a sequel to this fighting game came out, and it was called Super Smash Brothers Melee. In this game, combos were much more difficult, but several characters could still string together moves leading to death from many different percentages. Captain Falcon, in particular, was quite good a getting combos. There was a Falcon player named Isai. He was a very respected smash brothers player of the highest skill, and many of the combos he pulled off often lead to death.

When someone johned to Isai about his awesome combo ability, do you know what he said? He said (write this down, it's very important) "Don't get hit." These words have since become some of the most important words in the history of the development of the competitive Super Smash Bros. series. People changed the way they thought about the game, and instead of just mindlessly trying to beat the crap out of their opponents, they actively started trying to hit their opponent while not getting hit. Once somebody starts playing this way, anyone who plays with the old mindset will have a hard time ever beating them because they are using both their defensive and offensive options.

The bottom line, and I guess moral of the story is that it's a whole lot easier not to get grabbed than it is not to get hit, so maybe you should actually play a few games trying not to get grabbed and see how it works instead of sitting their doing smash theory in your head. Things don't always work out in-game the way they do on paper, and the respected smash players are the ones who play smash and prove themselves in-game, not the ones who sit on this forum talking theory all the time.

:edit:

this story is a work of fiction. It is based on a true story, but several events have been altered or misrepresented for the purpose of making a point. Isai really did say "Don't Get Hit" and it really did become the mantra of many up and coming smashers, and it really does change the way you play, but he may not have said it under these exact circumstances.

 

[JackieRabbit5]

I think the conclusion to all this should be simple...

Just have a little respect for ur opponent, i mean if u win a match by infinites is that really redeeming at all??? Maybe if ur some arrogant wannabe obssessed with winning for all the wrong reasons.

Honestly its things like this that make me lose interest in competitive play, i'd rather actually have fun with the game

 

[Dark Sonic]

I hate it when people say this, It's not that simple everyone will get grabbed sooner or later. It just bothers me to hear this line.

Why does it bother you? It's exactly what we did to avoid the Ice Climber's infinite in melee? And it worked. How about...don't get grabbed when Nana is right next to Popo and not doing anything at the time? Does that sound more doable to you?

What the ****!?

Thats like saying "Don't get hit"

Only, we said that too! That's how you beat Captain Falcon's combos in melee. That's how you play SSB64 at all. All it's really saying is that since you know what your opponent is going for (a grab) then you should just attack with methods that are safe from that (spacing, camping, ect.) Ice Climbers have very few grab setups and depend on opponents making mistakes in order to get those grabs. But what happens when you stop making those mistakes (the ones that get you grabbed anyway)? Well then, it would be possible to not get grabbed wouldn't it.

Well, welcome to competative gaming, because that's what we've been doing...forever. The goal is to play perfectly and it really is possible to completely avoid getting grabbed, especially if said character does not actually have any guaranteed grab setups.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

That's an amazing story CStrife! and you shouldn't get hit by the first move if you don't want to get comboed... And it's amazing how n00bs get annoyed by this, and I have something to tell all of them, LEARN TO PLAY DEFENSE! There, I said it, it works, and defense wins chamionships in football and smash, so get that into your system! Again for the n00bs, F***ING DEFENSE WINS CHAMPIONSHIPS!




*EDIT* and I would love it if someone put the "F***ING DEFENSE WINS CHAMPIONSHIPS" part as their sig, it would make me happier than if Emblem Lord lived forever to share his wisdom with the world! (not really, but it would make me happy!)