voorhese
Smash Master
I did an interview with Kage for a paper im writing for one of my classes. Some of the material covered was actually very educational for me as a smasher also. Here is the interview for anyone else interested in seeing what goes on in the head of a true warrior.
Q. What are your thoughts on the difficulty of the fighting game genre (not compared to anything else)?
A. I'd say it's very hard to understand this game in general as there's so many situations to account for. Learning every single mechanic (WD, CC for examples) is one thing but learning how to do apply them is even harder. The game is basically made where you aren't committed to really do anything since the freedom of movement is completely up to the player. Let's say you jump you can air control your character to move wherever you want. And then the more and more you advance as a player or I mean your level... Then it becomes a lot more about reading 3 steps ahead where you have to bait 3 things at once basically.
Q. Have you ever been told or heard that the fighting game genre is a joke? If so how often and elaborate if you feel like it.
A. Well actually yes I did probably countless of times.. I'm guessing when people like one fighting game but do not like another fighting game they'll probably bash it.. Hey look a good example melee vs. Brawl.. How many times melee players bashed Brawl for it's slow/defensive gameplay when some people do in fact enjoy this. I mean the logic behind it in general is completely baseless and it relies heavily on what you enjoy in a fighting game. It's all about taste imo. it's like if I bash you for enjoying rock music when I hate it, it's completely dumb lol.
Q. What about non-fighting game players bashing the genre?
A. I think I know some that don’t play fighting games because it's not their style or it's too much mind power for them to use but other than that.. I seriously don’t think I’ve heard anyone bashing a fighting game for no reason when they haven’t tried it lol
Q. How much mental engagement in your opinion would you say is needed to play games such as Super Smash Brothers Melee at the competitive level (or the level you would consider “good”)?
A. My definition of a good player would be someone that can at least make Round 3 pools at an international level. I mean I believe lower end players are too one-dimensional in their thinking process when they play.. It's either they try to copy someone else's style which is also one dimensional because there's simply no understanding made from the player trying to copy a style or they try to do it themselves but even then you need a tremendous amount of experience to understand this game.
Well I mean it's kind of normal since I used to be that way too trying to understand what my move set is capable of. There was a lot of testing involved; also removing bad habits is really really tough too... it took me probably minimum weeks in the beginning to force myself to stop rolling all the time after death for example. I literally had to make conscious note every time I did it, to stop doing it, until I stopped doing it... it was like a hammering of my mind lol. A good way to be able to spot these, is really looking at what you are doing in game.. for example ask yourself why you did a certain thing, and why you got punished.. if you can answer both then it's going to be easier to melt a bad habit away since now you'll definitely know to stop doing something. Basically, after you've got all the basics down, now you know all your move sets and what they can do.. (That means also knowing what your opponent and his character can do) now you can stop worrying about yourself and then start worrying about your opponent and really try to read him with what tools you have.
At that point, it really becomes a battle of the minds since you have to outplay your opponent, you can't simply try to attack him and hope for one situation is going to happen.. you really need to cover your options and his options in order for you to make easier reads which is why you have to read ahead. Which is why at that point it’s really really hard... After a tournament usually, my mind feels worked and I’m incredibly tired from focusing so hard.
Q. Can you give some examples on what goes on through your head, or what you would like to be going through your head in order to play even better?
A. Ok well honestly, before a match I'm usually very nervous and scared. I don't understand why some people would get so intimidated by me when I feel like I'm not going to do well when it's something important I have to do lol. Pre-match, I don't really do much preparation for my mind, except maybe saying to myself: "I can do this, I'm going to destroy him.." Generally things to pump me up a bit, just so I can at least get in the match with a positive outlook. When the match starts, however for me, there is seriously only the match and my opponent I see. During an intense tournament match with a strong player, I literally cannot remember what happened during the match.. that's how much focus it requires usually. My thoughts aren't even there, I simply try to beat my opponent. Let's see here..
It's because I knew it worked so I did it instantly... when you train a situation x1000000 times then it becomes automatic almost, you know?
Q. sort of like a trained autopilot? not like the autopilot that people who just have tech skill say they have but more like you have been the situation many times and instantly know the answer, so you have more time to think about what you expect your opponent to do, and compare that to what he has been doing etc.?
A. Yes it's easier to see what the opponent is trying to do to you, it's not really auto-pilot per se but ya I get what you are saying. I mean when you understand the range of attacks and how far a character can go, and then it's even easier. That's another level of spacing.
Q. k so more like literally mastery of the situations, you can immediately guess what your opponent is doing, and then plan accordingly, if it doesn’t happen you are still safe?
A. Yes for example, if I know fox is looking to Nair on me but I know Back jump Fair (Ganon) definitely covers that then even if I miss and Fox didn't Nair but DDed instead, I'm still going to be far enough to try something else after. Knowing your distances is pretty important because now, if I front jump Faired instead on his shield.. then I'm the one that will get punished with something depending on how Fox understands the Fair. Usually after a blocked Fair even if it's spaced I think Fox might be able to do something about it from Ganon's landing lag... but he also has to be careful if I jabbed after the Fair but he still shielded now I’m DEFINITELY getting punished lol.
Q. How much would you say that the pace of the game affects the ability to think about what you stated above?
A. Not much, eventually you learn how to execute what you want through your mind into the game with experience. I know there's definitely a speed difference in between the levels of players but other than that.. I mean you learn as you go and you'll naturally become faster since it'll be easier to see what to look for like I said.
Q. would u say that before a player reaches a respectable level of the play pace would affect learning?
A. I think the number of tools available is the main deciding factor for someone to become extremely good not the speed of the game. it's because you have to learn so much, like beginning with L-Cancels, and then not killing yourself off the stage, then.. Knowing what your moves are capable of with combos or traps/setups... You know?
When I play SF4, even though it's a slow game, I feel slow because I simply don't know everything about the game, I get trapped easily by better players because they have more tricks up their sleeves and they are faster at executing it because they know about the situations like the back of their hands.
Q. well before you mentioned when both players have many many tools it ends up being a battle of minds, if one of the players can think faster than the other wouldn’t the speed of the game be to their advantage if they played a character in which they could control the pace?
A. I don't think it's the speed of the game, it's more about the character. Like Fox/Falco undoubtedly have the most options available in the game so to account to everything is already much harder imo. Since they have the most useful tools out of their move sets, they can combine them in soo many ways that it's really hard to outplay them. I mean for me, I try to trap my opponent in any way possible because that's my own style.. it will not work for anyone else... since like I said my training is my experience and everything that goes with it. It really depends on how you as a player view the game, umm.. it's really hard to explain.. lol.
Q. Do you play chess at all? (The thought required from chess is respected) If so how many moves can you think ahead?
A. I used to when I was younger but I wasn't that good at it. Granted I didn't play it often.. That's the type of person I am, if I don't train very very hard something, I won't be good at it naturally lol.
Q. Do you think that the thought required in the fighting game genre is similar at all to a game like chess? If so do you think that the pace of the game affects how similar the thought required is?
A. Like chess? Not really.. but more like a Rock/paper/scissors within rock/paper/scissors.
Like you know Grab will beat crouch cancel.. but then the opponent might know you are going for grab so then you have to switch it up and maybe do an aerial.
Q. If you were to compare the studying and rehearsal required to succeed in your area of study to what is needed to be successful in fighting games what would be similar (if anything)?
A. Well umm.. Understanding of course, like for example why moves work the way they do kind of like Math. Lots of training with better players if you can, determination, focus, patience, keeping your cool, don't get nervous... I mean if you want to succeed in anything then you have to put the time into it, there's simply no other way... it all depends how much you really want it and how much you want to get better. Back in the day, I used to travel 3 hours every day just to get to play the top players in my area because I really wanted to improve.. that lasted about 2 years. (Ok maybe not EVERYDAY but very often for like minimum 6 hours session, I also remember doing a 15 hour session once, that was crazy. Though it definitely helps hand endurance in a long run if you plan on playing at a 3 day tournament for example.) hehe.
Q. What are your thoughts on how much thought is required to play FPS as compared to fighting games?
A. Well there's definitely still understanding certain mechanics like positioning and precision but other than that, it doesn't really involve the mind as much at all. There's not really "reads" going on as much it's more like following orders and working as a team that's more important. Though, there's tactics in FPS that you can use in 2v2 in melee.
Q. When it comes to the non-thought based skills required for both types of games, would consider it harder to have precise aim, safe strafing, map awareness, and team communication over great spacing, tricky movement, mind games, etc.?
A. Not really, it took me A LOT less time to be good at FPS games than fighting games. FPS games are always just you have a gun and then you find ways to kill your opponent what that gun which doesn't involve as much as having x1000 more options to account for when you fight someone in a fighting game where a lot more is going on.
with that gun* Sorry I’m tired lol.
Q. Do you personally think that the skills required to succeed in fighting games are usable outside the leisure time we spend it on? If so what skills specifically?
A. Not the skills... The lessons from tournament play. Though I kind of answered that already...
Q. Are there social reasons attached to competing in a video game?
A. Oh yes. That's actually one of the main reasons I go to tournaments. My first tournament was about proving myself if I was capable of winning but obviously that was a wakeup call that I had a lot to learn, I mean I didn't even know that you could chain grab in this game lol. But I mean eventually but slowly you start to make ties with the competitors and then you have fun and the time of your life with them. You become friends with everybody and then everything's cool lol. Though, I don't feel that's a waste of time at all.. I feel like it's something worthy to spend your money on to see the friends you made through your journey of becoming a good player. It's also required to do that if you want to become the best.. you have to basically play everybody too. To me, all this, is magical and a miracle pretty much.. no matter what your background is, it doesn't matter.. we're all here to play smash and have fun... /party and you know the deal. lol.
R. yup some of these questions sound silly, and thats only because they have to
Kage - why's that? lol
R. because the paper im writing is upposed to help inform that the fighting game genre and its players are not a joke
and playing them is not a waste of time.
Kage - Ah ok I'll just shoutout to them that I'm a nice guy and I'll play whoever, I dont mind.
Q. Why do you still play a game that’s over 10 years old?
A. Good question. Part of it is because I'm attached to my skill level that I have acquired throughout the years of training and I don't want to lose it of course. Hm... Obviously because there's still a growing scene going on and there's still lots of huge tournaments to go to. And for me, that's already worth it to keep playing... I know there's not that much money to be made as much but for me that's not the point, that's not what will bring me happiness, it's really about the journey. Car ride to tournament is already a blast and then you meet your friends again and you play them, MM them, crush them in tournament... There’s really no other feeling than that. Also because I love Ganondorf and his style of play is amazing, it's something I clicked on ever since I started playing him 1 year before competitive which was in 2005. I love the strength he has and the way every one of his moves feels like it hurts a lot. That's also another source of satisfaction I get lol.
Q.yeah i always tell people it’s about the people, and the fun. I tell them about how my 1st tourney i went to everyone you meet is like a long lost friend you havent seen in a long time.
A. Yes kind of like that.
and then I thanked him for doing the interview with me etc. I've never written an interview like this before, and idk how to list my responses to answers so i left most of them out. They were mostly just me saying that the info is informative, and that i agree etc.
also because i am not quoting this for my paper, i haven't really messed with the grammar to much, especially not on my end =P
Well I hope this helps inform you guys like it did me!
Q. What are your thoughts on the difficulty of the fighting game genre (not compared to anything else)?
A. I'd say it's very hard to understand this game in general as there's so many situations to account for. Learning every single mechanic (WD, CC for examples) is one thing but learning how to do apply them is even harder. The game is basically made where you aren't committed to really do anything since the freedom of movement is completely up to the player. Let's say you jump you can air control your character to move wherever you want. And then the more and more you advance as a player or I mean your level... Then it becomes a lot more about reading 3 steps ahead where you have to bait 3 things at once basically.
Q. Have you ever been told or heard that the fighting game genre is a joke? If so how often and elaborate if you feel like it.
A. Well actually yes I did probably countless of times.. I'm guessing when people like one fighting game but do not like another fighting game they'll probably bash it.. Hey look a good example melee vs. Brawl.. How many times melee players bashed Brawl for it's slow/defensive gameplay when some people do in fact enjoy this. I mean the logic behind it in general is completely baseless and it relies heavily on what you enjoy in a fighting game. It's all about taste imo. it's like if I bash you for enjoying rock music when I hate it, it's completely dumb lol.
Q. What about non-fighting game players bashing the genre?
A. I think I know some that don’t play fighting games because it's not their style or it's too much mind power for them to use but other than that.. I seriously don’t think I’ve heard anyone bashing a fighting game for no reason when they haven’t tried it lol
Q. How much mental engagement in your opinion would you say is needed to play games such as Super Smash Brothers Melee at the competitive level (or the level you would consider “good”)?
A. My definition of a good player would be someone that can at least make Round 3 pools at an international level. I mean I believe lower end players are too one-dimensional in their thinking process when they play.. It's either they try to copy someone else's style which is also one dimensional because there's simply no understanding made from the player trying to copy a style or they try to do it themselves but even then you need a tremendous amount of experience to understand this game.
Well I mean it's kind of normal since I used to be that way too trying to understand what my move set is capable of. There was a lot of testing involved; also removing bad habits is really really tough too... it took me probably minimum weeks in the beginning to force myself to stop rolling all the time after death for example. I literally had to make conscious note every time I did it, to stop doing it, until I stopped doing it... it was like a hammering of my mind lol. A good way to be able to spot these, is really looking at what you are doing in game.. for example ask yourself why you did a certain thing, and why you got punished.. if you can answer both then it's going to be easier to melt a bad habit away since now you'll definitely know to stop doing something. Basically, after you've got all the basics down, now you know all your move sets and what they can do.. (That means also knowing what your opponent and his character can do) now you can stop worrying about yourself and then start worrying about your opponent and really try to read him with what tools you have.
At that point, it really becomes a battle of the minds since you have to outplay your opponent, you can't simply try to attack him and hope for one situation is going to happen.. you really need to cover your options and his options in order for you to make easier reads which is why you have to read ahead. Which is why at that point it’s really really hard... After a tournament usually, my mind feels worked and I’m incredibly tired from focusing so hard.
Q. Can you give some examples on what goes on through your head, or what you would like to be going through your head in order to play even better?
A. Ok well honestly, before a match I'm usually very nervous and scared. I don't understand why some people would get so intimidated by me when I feel like I'm not going to do well when it's something important I have to do lol. Pre-match, I don't really do much preparation for my mind, except maybe saying to myself: "I can do this, I'm going to destroy him.." Generally things to pump me up a bit, just so I can at least get in the match with a positive outlook. When the match starts, however for me, there is seriously only the match and my opponent I see. During an intense tournament match with a strong player, I literally cannot remember what happened during the match.. that's how much focus it requires usually. My thoughts aren't even there, I simply try to beat my opponent. Let's see here..
It's because I knew it worked so I did it instantly... when you train a situation x1000000 times then it becomes automatic almost, you know?
Q. sort of like a trained autopilot? not like the autopilot that people who just have tech skill say they have but more like you have been the situation many times and instantly know the answer, so you have more time to think about what you expect your opponent to do, and compare that to what he has been doing etc.?
A. Yes it's easier to see what the opponent is trying to do to you, it's not really auto-pilot per se but ya I get what you are saying. I mean when you understand the range of attacks and how far a character can go, and then it's even easier. That's another level of spacing.
Q. k so more like literally mastery of the situations, you can immediately guess what your opponent is doing, and then plan accordingly, if it doesn’t happen you are still safe?
A. Yes for example, if I know fox is looking to Nair on me but I know Back jump Fair (Ganon) definitely covers that then even if I miss and Fox didn't Nair but DDed instead, I'm still going to be far enough to try something else after. Knowing your distances is pretty important because now, if I front jump Faired instead on his shield.. then I'm the one that will get punished with something depending on how Fox understands the Fair. Usually after a blocked Fair even if it's spaced I think Fox might be able to do something about it from Ganon's landing lag... but he also has to be careful if I jabbed after the Fair but he still shielded now I’m DEFINITELY getting punished lol.
Q. How much would you say that the pace of the game affects the ability to think about what you stated above?
A. Not much, eventually you learn how to execute what you want through your mind into the game with experience. I know there's definitely a speed difference in between the levels of players but other than that.. I mean you learn as you go and you'll naturally become faster since it'll be easier to see what to look for like I said.
Q. would u say that before a player reaches a respectable level of the play pace would affect learning?
A. I think the number of tools available is the main deciding factor for someone to become extremely good not the speed of the game. it's because you have to learn so much, like beginning with L-Cancels, and then not killing yourself off the stage, then.. Knowing what your moves are capable of with combos or traps/setups... You know?
When I play SF4, even though it's a slow game, I feel slow because I simply don't know everything about the game, I get trapped easily by better players because they have more tricks up their sleeves and they are faster at executing it because they know about the situations like the back of their hands.
Q. well before you mentioned when both players have many many tools it ends up being a battle of minds, if one of the players can think faster than the other wouldn’t the speed of the game be to their advantage if they played a character in which they could control the pace?
A. I don't think it's the speed of the game, it's more about the character. Like Fox/Falco undoubtedly have the most options available in the game so to account to everything is already much harder imo. Since they have the most useful tools out of their move sets, they can combine them in soo many ways that it's really hard to outplay them. I mean for me, I try to trap my opponent in any way possible because that's my own style.. it will not work for anyone else... since like I said my training is my experience and everything that goes with it. It really depends on how you as a player view the game, umm.. it's really hard to explain.. lol.
Q. Do you play chess at all? (The thought required from chess is respected) If so how many moves can you think ahead?
A. I used to when I was younger but I wasn't that good at it. Granted I didn't play it often.. That's the type of person I am, if I don't train very very hard something, I won't be good at it naturally lol.
Q. Do you think that the thought required in the fighting game genre is similar at all to a game like chess? If so do you think that the pace of the game affects how similar the thought required is?
A. Like chess? Not really.. but more like a Rock/paper/scissors within rock/paper/scissors.
Like you know Grab will beat crouch cancel.. but then the opponent might know you are going for grab so then you have to switch it up and maybe do an aerial.
Q. If you were to compare the studying and rehearsal required to succeed in your area of study to what is needed to be successful in fighting games what would be similar (if anything)?
A. Well umm.. Understanding of course, like for example why moves work the way they do kind of like Math. Lots of training with better players if you can, determination, focus, patience, keeping your cool, don't get nervous... I mean if you want to succeed in anything then you have to put the time into it, there's simply no other way... it all depends how much you really want it and how much you want to get better. Back in the day, I used to travel 3 hours every day just to get to play the top players in my area because I really wanted to improve.. that lasted about 2 years. (Ok maybe not EVERYDAY but very often for like minimum 6 hours session, I also remember doing a 15 hour session once, that was crazy. Though it definitely helps hand endurance in a long run if you plan on playing at a 3 day tournament for example.) hehe.
Q. What are your thoughts on how much thought is required to play FPS as compared to fighting games?
A. Well there's definitely still understanding certain mechanics like positioning and precision but other than that, it doesn't really involve the mind as much at all. There's not really "reads" going on as much it's more like following orders and working as a team that's more important. Though, there's tactics in FPS that you can use in 2v2 in melee.
Q. When it comes to the non-thought based skills required for both types of games, would consider it harder to have precise aim, safe strafing, map awareness, and team communication over great spacing, tricky movement, mind games, etc.?
A. Not really, it took me A LOT less time to be good at FPS games than fighting games. FPS games are always just you have a gun and then you find ways to kill your opponent what that gun which doesn't involve as much as having x1000 more options to account for when you fight someone in a fighting game where a lot more is going on.
with that gun* Sorry I’m tired lol.
Q. Do you personally think that the skills required to succeed in fighting games are usable outside the leisure time we spend it on? If so what skills specifically?
A. Not the skills... The lessons from tournament play. Though I kind of answered that already...
Q. Are there social reasons attached to competing in a video game?
A. Oh yes. That's actually one of the main reasons I go to tournaments. My first tournament was about proving myself if I was capable of winning but obviously that was a wakeup call that I had a lot to learn, I mean I didn't even know that you could chain grab in this game lol. But I mean eventually but slowly you start to make ties with the competitors and then you have fun and the time of your life with them. You become friends with everybody and then everything's cool lol. Though, I don't feel that's a waste of time at all.. I feel like it's something worthy to spend your money on to see the friends you made through your journey of becoming a good player. It's also required to do that if you want to become the best.. you have to basically play everybody too. To me, all this, is magical and a miracle pretty much.. no matter what your background is, it doesn't matter.. we're all here to play smash and have fun... /party and you know the deal. lol.
R. yup some of these questions sound silly, and thats only because they have to
Kage - why's that? lol
R. because the paper im writing is upposed to help inform that the fighting game genre and its players are not a joke
and playing them is not a waste of time.
Kage - Ah ok I'll just shoutout to them that I'm a nice guy and I'll play whoever, I dont mind.
Q. Why do you still play a game that’s over 10 years old?
A. Good question. Part of it is because I'm attached to my skill level that I have acquired throughout the years of training and I don't want to lose it of course. Hm... Obviously because there's still a growing scene going on and there's still lots of huge tournaments to go to. And for me, that's already worth it to keep playing... I know there's not that much money to be made as much but for me that's not the point, that's not what will bring me happiness, it's really about the journey. Car ride to tournament is already a blast and then you meet your friends again and you play them, MM them, crush them in tournament... There’s really no other feeling than that. Also because I love Ganondorf and his style of play is amazing, it's something I clicked on ever since I started playing him 1 year before competitive which was in 2005. I love the strength he has and the way every one of his moves feels like it hurts a lot. That's also another source of satisfaction I get lol.
Q.yeah i always tell people it’s about the people, and the fun. I tell them about how my 1st tourney i went to everyone you meet is like a long lost friend you havent seen in a long time.
A. Yes kind of like that.
and then I thanked him for doing the interview with me etc. I've never written an interview like this before, and idk how to list my responses to answers so i left most of them out. They were mostly just me saying that the info is informative, and that i agree etc.
also because i am not quoting this for my paper, i haven't really messed with the grammar to much, especially not on my end =P
Well I hope this helps inform you guys like it did me!
