Data Invincibility and armor list

[Masonomace]

Shulk: 3rd sideB

Sup Luigi player, I'm here to update you on Back Slash Charge's Frame data pertaining to the Super Armor.

Frame 1 - 31 is the SA frame window. Although as far as the Shulk boards know atm, we haven't figured out the exact amount of invincibility frames for the Monado Arts, Decisive Arts, & Hyper Arts.

 

[Deleted member]

Toon Link's custom upb 3, the flying spin attack, has super armor on the later part of the move, I think from right before he does the huge upwards slash until right before he goes into free fall.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Little Mac's grounded Forward-B has complete invincibility on Frames 1-4 and then leg invincibility from Frame 5 to whenever you start your punch, it seems.

 

[Pikabunz]

The "invincibility" on Jigglypuff's dash attack is just a special property on the hitbox that makes it keep going after clanking with another move. Moves that don't clank, like aerials, will just trade with her dash attack. Little Mac also has this on all his tilts and jab.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Fascinating. Is there a commonly-used name for this property?

 

[Strong Badam]

That's been around since at least Melee. Think it's just one of the hit flags.
I don't think there's a term for it but "trample" could work, inspired by MTG

 

[deepseadiva]

Fascinating. Is there a commonly-used name for this property?

Let's call them grounded aerials. Grerials.

No, wouldn't that just be called "unclankable" hitboxes or something.

 

[Kofu]

Let's call them grounded aerials. Grerials.

No, wouldn't that just be called "unclankable" hitboxes or something.

Oddly enough, a few aerials have the property specially coded, too (Palutena's and Bowser Jr's FAirs for example).

 

[Luigi player]

The "invincibility" on Jigglypuff's dash attack is just a special property on the hitbox that makes it keep going after clanking with another move. Moves that don't clank, like aerials, will just trade with her dash attack. Little Mac also has this on all his tilts and jab.

This is very nice to play around with...

2 Little Macs clashing (and continuing) with their full jabcombo is very fun to look at... tilts are less fun but still interesting
same with 2 Jiggs' running past/through each other while clashing with their dashattacks...
or having 2 Bowsers usmash through each other.

I couldn't get GaWs usmash to continue, it always clashes normally (with other moves as well) and just cancels. (just saw in the OP that it is before the hit, which is weird... but I got it to work now)

Do you know if they still follow the "clashing" formular? Like if an attack does >=10 % more it beats the other one if they clash
(so the "trample" clashing gets beaten)?

Either way, I'll rearrange the "normal invincibility" to this.

 

[Drarky]

Mii Swordfighter's Shuriken of Light has a very minimum ammount of invincibility on when it throws it (The Mii turns slightly yellow at the moment it does).

 

[cFive]

We made a video about all the moves mentioned in this thread!

Shoutouts to Luigi_player for the great research!

 

[Kodystri]

Lucas has invincibility Frame 1-4 on his Up Smash.

 

[Shadó Chimera / シャドーキメラ]

I'd like to cover some errors in this list. There are 2 types of "invincibility" I would like to talk about about them and the differences between them. For clarity sake I will refer to them as "invincibility" and "trample".

Invincibility changes hurtbox to not collide with hitboxes at all. No interaction between them.
Trample changes hurtboxes to not take knockback, damage, hitstun or get grabbed (the difference here is that attacks still collide they simply don't do anything)

The following things listed are actually trample:
- a little while after you got KO'd and came back from the revival platform
- while you're throwing an opponent (from a grab)
(I don't know how counters behave forgive me )

Jiggs and Little Mac have no changes to their hurtboxes and are therefore unprotected when outprioritized unlike G&W, Palutena and Bowser.

 

[Luig]

There are two types of invincibility:
Intangibility - If a hitbox touches someone who is intangible, there are no freeze frames and both sides remain unaffected, like the first 6 frames of sonic's side b release. Marth's final smash will just go on through him without slashing.
Invincibility - If a hitbox touches someone who is invincible, the attacker receives freeze frames but the defender does not. Marth's final smash will swing at someone who is invincible.
Here: http://www.ssbwiki.com/Invincibility_frame

 

[Luigi player]

Lucas has invincibility Frame 1-4 on his Up Smash.

Thanks, tested to confirm and added!

We made a video about all the moves mentioned in this thread!

Shoutouts to Luigi_player for the great research!

Nice video, I'll put it in the op.

Thanks, but it's not just my research, many other people contributed as well. =)

...

See below.

There are two types of invincibility:
Intangibility - If a hitbox touches someone who is intangible, there are no freeze frames and both sides remain unaffected, like the first 6 frames of sonic's side b release. Marth's final smash will just go on through him without slashing.
Invincibility - If a hitbox touches someone who is invincible, the attacker receives freeze frames but the defender does not. Marth's final smash will swing at someone who is invincible.
Here: http://www.ssbwiki.com/Invincibility_frame

Yeah... intangibility is like the opponent (almost) isn't there. ZSS' downB can still footstool them, though.

Trample is a "third" type of invincibility, but to be honest I don't even know what is what exactly (in my "trample" list).

Pikabunz only mentioned Jiggs' dashattack and Little Macs jabs/tilts. They clash and still go on, beating other moves, but not aerial ones.
G&Ws usmash can still clash with aerial moves, which makes it such a good anti air option. So it looks like that it isn't even the same thing as the previous ones. Same with Palutenas dashattack (clashes and then beats aerials, just like normal invincibility). I know she has partial invincibility for bair and dashattack, but apparently at least her dashattack also has full body invincibility.

My only indicator of this 3rd invincibility which I've called "trample" for now (I like the name Strong Bad suggested ) is that the characters don't flash like for all other invincibility, but even here seem to be differences...

As for intangibility and invincibility, I've never really cared enough to differentiate them, I've mentioned it in the list when people specified them like for ZSS' downB, but I don't feel like testing all of these for intangibility, since it doesn't make that much of a difference anyway. But I guess I can note it in the OP.

 

[Shadó Chimera / シャドーキメラ]

I think you may have misunderstood here. There are only 2 types of invincibility and no 3rd type. Palutena, Bowser and G&W use the 2nd type of invincibility on their moves along with priority that allows the moves to continue when they collide. Even when the hitboxes don't collide (transcendent hitboxes for example) they aren't harmed because they are invincible.

Jiggs and Mac don't gain this and can only continue when they aren't outprioritzed. They gain as much protection as an aerial against a projectile.

 

[Luigi player]

I think you may have misunderstood here. There are only 2 types of invincibility and no 3rd type. Palutena, Bowser and G&W use the 2nd type of invincibility on their moves along with priority that allows the moves to continue when they collide. Even when the hitboxes don't collide (transcendent hitboxes for example) they aren't harmed because they are invincible.

Jiggs and Mac don't gain this and can only continue when they aren't outprioritzed. They gain as much protection as an aerial against a projectile.

So they're completely the same as normal invincibility except they don't flash... okay, it does seem like it.

 

[Shadó Chimera / シャドーキメラ]

So they're completely the same as normal invincibility except they don't flash... okay, it does seem like it.

Characters don't flash during throws either if I recall correctly. Just oddities I guess.

 

[Luigi player]

Characters don't flash during throws either if I recall correctly. Just oddities I guess.

They actually do. But I guess Bowsers and G&Ws usmashes and Palutenas bair and dashattack are really oddities...

 

[Yangguizi]

C. Falcons custom heavy raptor boost has armor during the actual uppercut of the move. You still take damage, but the attack always follows through.

 

[Kofu]

Game & Watch's USmash doesn't continue through clank, it just has invincibility during its long startup frames. Other attacks clank with his head but the attack isn't interrupted because he's invincible.

Basically:

Invincibility: hurtbox exists but cannot be interrupted (I think it can clank though?)

Intangibility: hurtbox does not exist

"Trample:" continue through clank; if the move is not outprioritized, the attack and its hitboxes continue even if it hits another hitbox.

 

[Luigi player]

C. Falcons custom heavy raptor boost has armor during the actual uppercut of the move. You still take damage, but the attack always follows through.

Do you know which sideB number it is? 2 or 3?

Palutena, Bowser and G&W use the 2nd type of invincibility on their moves along with priority that allows the moves to continue when they collide.

Jiggs and Mac don't gain this and can only continue when they aren't outprioritzed. They gain as much protection as an aerial against a projectile.

So they all have this "priority" which makes them able to continue their attack... as long as they're not outprioritised or hit by an aerial.
I've seen your youtube comment which said that ZSS' utilt, Ness' jab3 and Bowsers late fsmash have this property as well.
About them: I've tried clashing 2 Bowser fsmashes by trying to fsmash each other at the same time, but it never clashes, they always trade. Does that mean it's just transcendent, and that "blocking others but still go on" is just on the later part of Bowsers fsmash?
Do you know of any other attacks that have this priority which makes them able to continue their attack if there are any?

Game & Watch's USmash doesn't continue through clank, it just has invincibility during its long startup frames. Other attacks clank with his head but the attack isn't interrupted because he's invincible.

Basically:

Invincibility: hurtbox exists but cannot be interrupted (I think it can clank though?)

Intangibility: hurtbox does not exist

"Trample:" continue through clank; if the move is not outprioritized, the attack and its hitboxes continue even if it hits another hitbox.

You're right, it's because the invincibility is before the hitbox appears that it continues on after a clank. I'm on it to fix that section up!

 

[Shadó Chimera / シャドーキメラ]

So they all have this "priority" which makes them able to continue their attack... as long as they're not outprioritised or hit by an aerial.
I've seen your youtube comment which said that ZSS' utilt, Ness' jab3 and Bowsers late fsmash have this property as well.
About them: I've tried clashing 2 Bowser fsmashes by trying to fsmash each other at the same time, but it never clashes, they always trade. Does that mean it's just transcendent, and that "blocking others but still go on" is just on the later part of Bowsers fsmash?
Do you know of any other attacks that have this priority which makes them able to continue their attack if there are any?

Bowser's early Fsmash is transcendent it can clash when he hits the ground. You can find the others here. It's represented by a ●. It doesn't have specials and is in Japanese however.

 

[Kofu]

@ Luigi player are you familiar with reading Master Core data? While I'm not sure how to read invincibility and super armor data from it, I can show you how to check move priority.

After the SDI multiplier listing and before the shield damage listing are two unmarked flags. They're the main priority flags. The first one tells you if it's transcendent or not. 0x0 means it's transcendent, 0x1 means it has normal priority. The second tag says if the move continues through clank (trample). 0x0 means it keeps going, 0x1 means it clanks normally. Going from this:

Bowser's FSmash: the early part of the move is transcendent, the latter part is not but continues through clank.

ZSS UTilt continues through clank.

Ness's Jab 3 continues through clank.

Unfortunately Master Core is several patches old and lacks all DLC characters (and doesn't have special attacks labeled, but they're there). sixriver data, what Shadow Chimera posted, is probably more up-to-date (I don't know if it has Mewtwo, Lucas, Roy, and Ryu) but it is in Japanese.

 

[Luigi player]

Bowser's early Fsmash is transcendent it can clash when he hits the ground. You can find the others here. It's represented by a ●. It doesn't have specials and is in Japanese however.

Thank you, I'll try to look for more.


For now I have fixed up the op, so this is somewhat of a big Update:

I've put a "trample" explanation at the beginning of the post and added it as an attribute to moves.

Put G&W into the normal invincibility section and fixed his frames (previously had frames 4-26, which seems to be "partial invincibility". Now I've tested this and the actual (full body) invincibility he has is frame 5-11!

Put Bowser there as well and tested his invincibility and it is frame 14-27 (previously had 14-28 as partial invincibility).

Put Palutena in the invincibility section and tested her dashattack invincibility: frame 4-15, and bair invincibility: frame 3-10.
Previously I had: dash attack (her shield, frame 4-16?), bair (her shield, frame 3-11?)

The trample section is renamed to "other moves that have trample", so that I don't need to list some moves in more sections at the same time, while still having moves with trample obvious through coloring.

Added ZSS' utilt, Ness' jab3 and Bowsers fsmash (weak hit at the end) to the new trample section.

I've also fixed the ordering in the invincibility section (somehow had N before M and M before L (partially)).
And colored in some invincibility framedata that I hadn't colored in before.

 

[BSP]

Pac-Man's smash attacks may have this "trample" property you're describing. When I was in training mode the other day, I had Sonic's Fsmash connect with Pac-Man's Fsmash at the same time. Pac-Man's Fsmash cancelled out Sonic's, who went into the clanking animation, but Pac-Man's Fsmash kept going and hit with the sourspot hit. I think this also applies to the rest of his ghosts.

 

[Kofu]

Pac-Man's smash attacks may have this "trample" property you're describing. When I was in training mode the other day, I had Sonic's Fsmash connect with Pac-Man's Fsmash at the same time. Pac-Man's Fsmash cancelled out Sonic's, who went into the clanking animation, but Pac-Man's Fsmash kept going and hit with the sourspot hit. I think this also applies to the rest of his ghosts.

Good eye, they do. However USmash's propping hit can clank normally. There's a slightly weaker hitbox on FSmash (normal does 16% and this one does 15%) that can clank, but I don't use Pac-Man enough to know where this hitbox would be.

I'm pretty sure Game & Watch's USmash does have partial body invincibility from frames 4-26 still. I've been hit with attacks late in its startup and still not flinched.

 

[Luigi player]

Pac-Man's smash attacks may have this "trample" property you're describing. When I was in training mode the other day, I had Sonic's Fsmash connect with Pac-Man's Fsmash at the same time. Pac-Man's Fsmash cancelled out Sonic's, who went into the clanking animation, but Pac-Man's Fsmash kept going and hit with the sourspot hit. I think this also applies to the rest of his ghosts.

You're right. I've just looked through the japanese data and found all of these (with trample):

Bowser jr: rapid jab finisher, dsmash, fair-landing, dair-landing | edit: dsmash beats and hits through other moves
DK: fsmash, usmash, dsmash | edit: dsmash beats and hits through other moves, but usmash and fsmash don't, fsmash only sometimes? (depends on spacing...?)
Zelda: usmash (last hit) | edit: tested
Toon Link: dashattack | edit: tested
Palutena: ftilt, dtilt, utilt | edit: her tilts are weird. They beat out other moves, but their hitbox won't hit them after the clanks | edit: after the 1.1.0 patch, her ftilt actually can hit after a clank, utilt can work too
Ike: dash attack (first hit) | edit: doesn't stop, but doesn't hit opponent in the clank
Fox: fsmash | edit: has 2 hits, if you clash with the first one the opponent can be hit by the 2nd
Falco: fsmash (late hit) | edit: tested. first hitbox is transcendent
Pikachu: fsmash (last hitbox (21-22)) | edit: tested
Greninja: usmash (first hitbox) | edit: tested
Duck Hunt: all smashes | edit: smashes work fine
ROB: usmash (first hitbox (launcher)) | edit: doesn't stop, but doesn't hit opponent after the clank
Villager: ftilt, dtilt, dsmash | edit: tested, dsmash could probably theoretically hit with the 2nd after the clank
Wii Fit Trainer: usmash | edit: tested
Pacman: fsmash (2nd hitbox (21-28)), usmash (strong hits (16-26)), dsmash | edit: tested (weak hits will hit opponent after clashing)
Mii Swordfighter: usmash | edit: tested

Edit: (somehow forgot those)
Mewtwo: Jab1 (and some parts of multijab), Usmash (all hits) | edit: tested
Ryu: Ftilt (strong) (both hits) | edit: tested (2nd hit will hit opponent if first hit clashed)

I'll look into them more to confirm each one and see how it works before adding them to the op, but it should all be correct. Didn't include the ones I already have in the op.

 

[⑨ball]

@ Luigi player do we have a list of all the known disjoints/intangible normals and aerials yet?

 

[Shadó Chimera / シャドーキメラ]

I think I should mention that trample priority doesn't keep hitboxes normally but can get new hitboxes out if it's multihit. This doesn't apply with projectiles because they are considered separate from a character. They behave exactly like clanking aerials with the difference being the user wont receive hitstun when they are cancelled.

I'm not certain if this should be listed because it's not armor or invincibility, but that's up to you.

 

[Masonomace]

Tagging seems meh, but Idk if you watch your thread or not Luigi player. So anyways, I just wanted to come back to tell ya I made a slight mistake with Back Slash Charge's Super Armor window. It's actually 1 – 30 'cus the hitbox starts on Frame 31. Sorry about that.

 

[Luigi player]

@ Luigi player do we have a list of all the known disjoints/intangible normals and aerials yet?

What do you mean with disjoints? It's possible that every move could be disjointed. Some just more than others.
If you mean attacks where specific parts of hurtboxes get invincible then that would be more realistic, but there are still a lot of moves with that. I'm not sure about looking through that since I can't read the specific kanji and stuff on the japanese page.
Kuroganehammer has partial invincibility listed too sometimes, though. So for some characters you can look through that if you want.

I think I should mention that trample priority doesn't keep hitboxes normally but can get new hitboxes out if it's multihit. This doesn't apply with projectiles because they are considered separate from a character. They behave exactly like clanking aerials with the difference being the user wont receive hitstun when they are cancelled.

I'm not certain if this should be listed because it's not armor or invincibility, but that's up to you.

Okay, so it is because of more hitboxes? I thought that but then thought Jiggs' dashattack can also hit with the strong part... maybe I was wrong. Little Macs tilts also don't go through, so I guess it's true. Weird that Palutena doesn't hit through then, because her attacks are like multihits.

So it's not a property that let's moves finish and if they're multihit / have more hitboxes(?) they hit through. If they hit through you could consider that some kind of armor, but otherwise I guess this wouldn't fit here.

Oh well, I'll try to look into them more at first. Worst case we'll get a new thread for them and just mention here that something like that exists.

Though I wonder why Ikes dashattack doesn't hit through then. Since it's the first part of his dashattack that has "trample". The other hitboxes should come out as well... Jiggs' dashattack isn't really a multihit, same with DKs dsmash...

Tagging seems meh, but Idk if you watch your thread or not Luigi player. So anyways, I just wanted to come back to tell ya I made a slight mistake with Back Slash Charge's Super Armor window. It's actually 1 – 30 'cus the hitbox starts on Frame 31. Sorry about that.

I sometimes see when someone posts or look here myself so yeah. Fixed it, and thanks.

 

[Shadó Chimera / シャドーキメラ]

Weird that Palutena doesn't hit through then, because her attacks are like multihits.

Only her up tilt is a multihit.

Oh well, I'll try to look into them more at first. Worst case we'll get a new thread for them and just mention here that something like that exists.

Yeah. I don't think Priority has it's own thread anyway.

Though I wonder why Ikes dashattack doesn't hit through then. Since it's the first part of his dashattack that has "trample". The other hitboxes should come out as well... Jiggs' dashattack isn't really a multihit, same with DKs dsmash...

Ike is because they are a single hit despite being different hitboxes, once they're cancelled they aren't active anymore. Yet.. DK's Down Smash doesn't care and for whatever reason and reactivates when it clanks. Not sure why, guess it's special. lol

 

[Luigi player]

Only her up tilt is a multihit.

Whaat. But her ftilt has like 3 hits... so it's one hit that can hit more often after a short time. Super weird.
If Sakurai would give her true multihits for them her tilts would probably be really good then, lol.

Ike is because they are a single hit despite being different hitboxes, once they're cancelled they aren't active anymore. Yet.. DK's Down Smash doesn't care and for whatever reason and reactivates when it clanks. Not sure why, guess it's special. lol

Hm I see, very interesing. Well I know DK has very many different hitboxes on his dsmash that hit on many different angles, maybe it's that? Jigglypuff is also single hit, but with a weak hit as well... Tested now and if it clanks with the first hitbox Jiggs' will hit with the weak one and if it clanks with the weak one it won't hit anymore.

 

[Shadó Chimera / シャドーキメラ]

I made some mistakes. Palutena's Ftilt is a multihit it was listed on the Japanese data thing like it wasn't, and Jigg's dash attack does let the 2nd hit come though if the first hit is cancelled (tested wrong like 10 times previously >.>). There must be some kind of independent factor that determines this? I wonder if any normal aerials are like this...

 

[Luigi player]

I made some mistakes. Palutena's Ftilt is a multihit it was listed on the Japanese data thing like it wasn't, and Jigg's dash attack does let the 2nd hit come though if the first hit is cancelled (tested wrong like 10 times previously >.>). There must be some kind of independent factor that determines this? I wonder if any normal aerials are like this...

Now with patch 1.1.0 Palutenas ftilt is a better working multihit (with only 2 hits though)... and now the "trample" really beats and then hits the opponent. ^^

Updated the OP with Ryus UpB (Shoryuken) invincibility (normal 3-5, true 1-6)
and Marios UpB invincibility endframe (3-? -> 3-6).

 

[icraq]

Now with patch 1.1.0 Palutenas ftilt is a better working multihit (with only 2 hits though)... and now the "trample" really beats and then hits the opponent. ^^

Updated the OP with Ryus UpB (Shoryuken) invincibility (normal 3-5, true 1-6)
and Marios UpB invincibility endframe (3-? -> 3-6).

I'm not certain Ryu's shoryuken is 1-6. I found it in Dantarion's params and the frames were 0-7. 3-5 was listed for upb, it was actually listed as 3-6 but I think the end number must be the frame Ryu is first vulnerable.
It's possible it's wrong, though, because of how Ryu's inputted moves are listed. Might be some factor in the code that changes everything.

Also I found his heavy Utilt and usmash seemed to have bone intangibility but I'm not certain I was reading the data correctly. Other moves may as well, they're just not parsed correctly because of his weird movesets so it's hard going through them all in hex.
If you're interested I have all the subactions listed for his moves in the Ryu forums thread for kurogane's frame data.

 

[Luigi player]

I'm not certain Ryu's shoryuken is 1-6. I found it in Dantarion's params and the frames were 0-7. 3-5 was listed for upb, it was actually listed as 3-6 but I think the end number must be the frame Ryu is first vulnerable.
It's possible it's wrong, though, because of how Ryu's inputted moves are listed. Might be some factor in the code that changes everything.

Also I found his heavy Utilt and usmash seemed to have bone intangibility but I'm not certain I was reading the data correctly. Other moves may as well, they're just not parsed correctly because of his weird movesets so it's hard going through them all in hex.
If you're interested I have all the subactions listed for his moves in the Ryu forums thread for kurogane's frame data.

This japanese data of Ryu: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1nGztModaYmhFQmUfso3op8GinKOYVI3RnpS43ERGvJM/edit#gid=0
notes that Ryus usmash and dsmash have something. Might be partial invincibility? I can't read it, though.

Kuroganehammers data for Shoruyken: http://kuroganehammer.com/Smash4/Ryu
has the normal one listed as 3-5 and the true one listed as 1-6.

I've tested both and can confirm that Ryu can be hit with frame 2 jabs out of the normal one, while losing to Marios upB if they input their upBs on the same frame (Ryu will get hit while Mario will not [after Ryus invincibility ended]).
If Ryu does the true Shoryuken he can't be hit by frame 1 jabs (frame 0 doesn't really exist), and trades with Mario (both of their invincibility ends at frame 6 (so they're vulnerable at frame 7), and both already have their hitbox out on frame 6.
I've let them upB at the same time again and they will trade.
Pretty sure that confirms the frames.


Btw, since I've created this thread now: http://smashboards.com/threads/the-special-properties-of-moves.412730/
about Special Properties of Moves, which includes "Trample", I will be removing it from this thread, and leave a note to the other thread in the OP.


Edit: small UPDATE:
Jigglypuffs downB invincibility frames: 1-(>24) -> 1-27
Fox downB: crossed out. I don't think he has invcinbility on his downB. I didn't get any while testing it again.

 

[icraq]

That's interesting about the dsmash. We found in the Ryu forums we could hit a bobomb safely with dsmash, but I was never certain it had some intangibility. I wonder if it's just a disjoint? Utilt2 can safely detonate bobombs on battlefield's platforms, but not usmash, though intangibility on usmashes is so common I wouldn't be surprised.

My only thought about the frames for shoryuken invincibility being the way they are in Dantarion's files is because frame 0 is actually true frame 1. I remember there being some confusion in the beginning where little mac's jab or zss's jab was listed as frame 0 in Dantarion's dumps.

I'm thinking that could mean it's actually invincible 7 total frames, 1-7, but that doesn't make sense with anything else in his params file. So I guess it must just be an oddity because of it being kind of a special special move. 1-6 is most likely correct.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

1-6 is definitely correct, as I tested this myself.