Lemonwater
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Jan 9, 2009
- Messages
- 664
Fourside!
N64 Hyrule, Saffron City, Fountain of Dreams
N64 Hyrule, Saffron City, Fountain of Dreams
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Is Brawl lacking any good stages?
- Thread starter Ck-2
- Start date
wh1te5had0w
Smash Journeyman
yeah fourside was a good stage
Brawl has tons of good stages; a lot of players just started having unreasonable standards for stages. Lylat Cruise and Pokemon Stadium 1 are obviously fair game for starters which puts you on par with melee's generally accepted list. Honestly, what's unfair about the Halberd at all? Braindead people might have trouble with the hazards, and you have a small amount of play around them which really doesn't favor anyone very much anyway and is an aspect of the game that's probably good to have represented in the starter stages (if they are supposed to represent the most fair selections from the game as a whole, why completely exclude major aspects of the game such as damaging hazards or stage movement?). With stage striking removing it as a factor in the small number of matchups (less than 1% of the total matchups in brawl) where the relatively large presence of walls and walk-offs can get dumb, Delfino Plaza is obviously a very fair stage that works as a starter. PictoChat even is very fair if you play smart and are dynamic; the only real problem with it being a starter is that most players aren't very flexible and are really bad at adapting to changing conditions (and quite a few play like total morons on certain forms by jumping into damaging hazards and doing other such ridiculous things; I'll never understand them). If you really want diverse starters, brawl offers it. Just use what the game gives you.
I'm sure I'm going to get flack for this, but melee's starter list is really boring. Fountain of Dreams, Battlefield, Yoshi's Story, and Dreamland 64 all follow the same archtype of "three platforms with the middle one more elevated". They change a few proportions and have generally different sizes, and they each have their own minor gimmick (the cloud + Ness hating Shy Guys, the wind, the movement of the lower platforms, and the edges you can't slide up to grab the ledges). Still though, they're pretty homogeneous. Then you have Final Destination which is a flat line (deceptively unfair in general, by the way) and Pokemon Stadium 1 which is the only stage on the traditional list that incorporates dealing with fundamentally different platform layouts than "none" and "basic 3 platform" and had transformation and walls and tons of other features that definitely make it unique and interesting.
Really, melee's starter stages are 6 stages with 3 ideas (though adding DK64 would increase each number by 1); with brawl, every candidate for a starter has its own ideas, and more of the total game can be contained within them. Pass through floors, water, damaging hazards, moving platforms, various schemes of stage transformation, walk-offs, sloped ground, stages you can and can't navigate under, various stage side shapes that have big impacts on games (Lylat and Pokemon Stadium 1's easy to attack through ledges versus the flat walls of Yoshi's Island [Brawl] that are great for wall jumps and wall clings)... A lot of people like to call these things "problems", but they're important parts of the game that, when they are not in such an excess as to create great unfairness, add depth and diversity to the game. Even in just those starters, brawl contains "the whole game", and in each individual starter stage that implements these features (or doesn't!), you have a very unique idea for a stage relative to the other stages on your list. If you have 9 starters, you have 9 unique stage ideas. I know that every starter stage in melee gave assorted actual advantages (save your strawmans for another day), but the shared core concepts are just plain less interesting in the long run and limit the game in its ability to represent more of the game in the starter stages.
Of course there are quality stages from the previous smash games that would have been nice; Poke Floats was a really cool and interesting stage, and even among the more boring stages that so many of you love, I can't say I could disagree with "more is better". I suspect that importing stages directly was not an option with the new physics engine, and you can tell that the old melee stages were rebuilt in brawl's engine as opposed to just ported. They evidently decided that they only had enough development effort for 10 returning stages, and I can understand why they made the choices they did. Brawl's overall stage list is easily the best in the series if you actually like stages; I just don't see why people feel the need to complain about it. The presence of awful stages is unfortunate, but it's not like it's unpredictable, and they did a really good job of making most stages actually playable if you actually want to play on a bunch of stages. The even better part is that most of the actually bad stages are stages that they obviously didn't try very hard or at all to make fair (Mario Bros., etc.). A few basically good stage designs implemented wrong are depressing for me (Summit, Flat Zone 2, WarioWare), but I can't say I have sour grapes over New Pork City or anything...
Also, people other than me like Fourside? Fourside is cool because it's EarthBound and I kinda like camping, but I thought most people really hated it.
I'm sure I'm going to get flack for this, but melee's starter list is really boring. Fountain of Dreams, Battlefield, Yoshi's Story, and Dreamland 64 all follow the same archtype of "three platforms with the middle one more elevated". They change a few proportions and have generally different sizes, and they each have their own minor gimmick (the cloud + Ness hating Shy Guys, the wind, the movement of the lower platforms, and the edges you can't slide up to grab the ledges). Still though, they're pretty homogeneous. Then you have Final Destination which is a flat line (deceptively unfair in general, by the way) and Pokemon Stadium 1 which is the only stage on the traditional list that incorporates dealing with fundamentally different platform layouts than "none" and "basic 3 platform" and had transformation and walls and tons of other features that definitely make it unique and interesting.
Really, melee's starter stages are 6 stages with 3 ideas (though adding DK64 would increase each number by 1); with brawl, every candidate for a starter has its own ideas, and more of the total game can be contained within them. Pass through floors, water, damaging hazards, moving platforms, various schemes of stage transformation, walk-offs, sloped ground, stages you can and can't navigate under, various stage side shapes that have big impacts on games (Lylat and Pokemon Stadium 1's easy to attack through ledges versus the flat walls of Yoshi's Island [Brawl] that are great for wall jumps and wall clings)... A lot of people like to call these things "problems", but they're important parts of the game that, when they are not in such an excess as to create great unfairness, add depth and diversity to the game. Even in just those starters, brawl contains "the whole game", and in each individual starter stage that implements these features (or doesn't!), you have a very unique idea for a stage relative to the other stages on your list. If you have 9 starters, you have 9 unique stage ideas. I know that every starter stage in melee gave assorted actual advantages (save your strawmans for another day), but the shared core concepts are just plain less interesting in the long run and limit the game in its ability to represent more of the game in the starter stages.
Of course there are quality stages from the previous smash games that would have been nice; Poke Floats was a really cool and interesting stage, and even among the more boring stages that so many of you love, I can't say I could disagree with "more is better". I suspect that importing stages directly was not an option with the new physics engine, and you can tell that the old melee stages were rebuilt in brawl's engine as opposed to just ported. They evidently decided that they only had enough development effort for 10 returning stages, and I can understand why they made the choices they did. Brawl's overall stage list is easily the best in the series if you actually like stages; I just don't see why people feel the need to complain about it. The presence of awful stages is unfortunate, but it's not like it's unpredictable, and they did a really good job of making most stages actually playable if you actually want to play on a bunch of stages. The even better part is that most of the actually bad stages are stages that they obviously didn't try very hard or at all to make fair (Mario Bros., etc.). A few basically good stage designs implemented wrong are depressing for me (Summit, Flat Zone 2, WarioWare), but I can't say I have sour grapes over New Pork City or anything...
Also, people other than me like Fourside? Fourside is cool because it's EarthBound and I kinda like camping, but I thought most people really hated it.
Minish Blade
Smash Cadet
FoD was awesome.
Throw a coin and make a wish.
Throw a coin and make a wish.
Raider 88
Smash Journeyman
I was a big Pokemon fan back when Smash for N64 was released, so naturally Saffron was my favorite stage. Loved it when Charmander would pop out of door and yell "CHARMANDER!" I also liked Hyrule in N64.
For Melee, I'd love to have Final Destination and Mute City back. I still occasionally screw up my recovery with the brawl FD ledges, and Mute City in brawl is just not fun at all. One hit with a car and you are almost dead....
Brawl has Smashville though, so it pretty much makes up for it
For Melee, I'd love to have Final Destination and Mute City back. I still occasionally screw up my recovery with the brawl FD ledges, and Mute City in brawl is just not fun at all. One hit with a car and you are almost dead....
Brawl has Smashville though, so it pretty much makes up for it
Vorguen
Smash Champion
Smashville is definitely my favorite stage. I'd like to see some of the N64 stages make a new appearance, and more neutral flat stages like Smashville and Final Destination.
Lizard
Smash Ace
Definatly miss Fountain of Dreams...
Brawl does need a couple more neutrals.
Brawl does need a couple more neutrals.
RyanPF
Smash Journeyman
I would like a couple more neutrals. Stage builder helps a little but it makes ugly stages.
Vorguen
Smash Champion
Yeah, we built all the "seck" stages to be our neutrals for 4 way free for alls. lol
Vorguen
Smash Champion
Nah ours are the best, you just don't want to admit it. Either way I'm tired of playing custom I only play them for the music. Gerudo Valley for the win. lol
Energy Whip
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2009
- Messages
- 25
Fountain Of Dream is a real shocker to be missing I used play everyday there but Pictochat is my favorite stage because on my Nintendo DS I'm quite used to the drawings. xD
Geist
Smash Master
I know that none of the 64 stages made an appearance in Brawl, but ****. Dreamland 64 was probably the greatest stage ever made.
Making neutral stages in stage creator is pretty cool though.
Making neutral stages in stage creator is pretty cool though.
Vorguen
Smash Champion
Brinstar? Corneria? Those are still in Brawl.
Maxmagnus20019
Smash Rookie
Oh god, imagine the amount of Meteor Smashes that'd occur if Peach's Castle from N64 made an appreance in Brawl.
Pictochat is a great stage, so is Smashville.
Also, atleast you can customize how frequently songs play in each stage, it makes each stage a bit more enjoyable IMO.
Pictochat is a great stage, so is Smashville.
Also, atleast you can customize how frequently songs play in each stage, it makes each stage a bit more enjoyable IMO.
Pink murder
Smash Ace
I really miss the nintendo 64 Hyrule castle.... Those tornadoes pawned ^^
~Zack~
Smash Journeyman
i miss poke floats
fountain of dreams
ssbb64 hyrule castle
fountain of dreams
ssbb64 hyrule castle
Na, I disagree, Vorguen. You haven't even played at my house, so HOW would you know?
Vorguen
Smash Champion
When we form the club and get together bring your Wii and show me your custom stages. 
Pink murder
Smash Ace
Yea, Poke floats was good. Also, the Nintendo 64 pokemon stage was boss x_x
Pink murder
Smash Ace
... I'd change pokemon stadium 1 for saffron city ^^
Pink murder
Smash Ace
Heh heh, considering that those advantages apply to me, then no 
Pink murder
Smash Ace
Love to Hate Nightmare
Smash Rookie
have you SEEN smashville?
THAT is a good *** stage
THAT is a good *** stage
Why do we NEED to stop posting? Notice that the name of this thread is "Is Brawl lacking any good stages". I'm in no way claiming that brawl doesn't have good stages. And, people think differently, your opinion is vague. My question promotes discussion, pondering, and analyzation. If you can't stand the heat then get out the kitchen. Go whine somewhere else.
Vorguen
Smash Champion
Seriously this is your opinion and I find this thread to be quite good for my entertainment and it keeps giving me nostalgia of the good old N64 stage days.
If you don't like the thread or don't think it is important, then don't post here. If a mod thinks it needs to be closed, then he can close it. For the rest of us who enjoy discussing stages that could have been included in the game, kindly respect that your opinion is not fact and not everybody shares it. Thank you.
Cheesy, but true. lol
Pink murder
Smash Ace
▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ They're right you know ^^. There's no need to close the thread. I find it pretty entertaining as well.
I wish they had put some Nintendo 64 stages in, but they didn't... W/e, it doesn't mean that its lacking good stages. Smashville is a perfect example ^^
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Vorguen
Smash Champion
Thank you for the support, but you're forgetting there are still a few N64 stages in Brawl and Melee!
*points at Corneria and Brinstar*
*points at Corneria and Brinstar*
Pink murder
Smash Ace
Cornia used to be huge . But it got smaller in melee, and then even smaller in brawl. >.>
As for brinstar, it was different in the Nintendo version.
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Vorguen
Smash Champion
I can't remember any differences. I know Corneria got smaller, but it's still basically the same stage. Either way, in the end, the N64 stages owned and we all miss them
Pink murder
Smash Ace
You speak the truth
That's not to say that brawl doesn't have any good ones though. Pictochat is an automatic classic in my eyes.
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Vorguen
Smash Champion
Bleh I didn't like Pictochat, not a huge fan. My favorite stage is Smashville. I love Luigi's Mansion too, even though I never played the game. Just the background and the scenery is amazing, and so is the music.
Darth Waffles
Smash Lord
The metal mario or even fighting polygon team stages would be nice even though they wouldn't really be much different from Yoshi's Island (Brawl) (except for the sides, obviously) and battlefield. Seriously, I'd rather have more decent stages than ones that nobody EVER plays on competitively
Stages...stages...
BOARD THE PLATFORMS!
Stages...stages...
BOARD THE PLATFORMS!