Is chain grabbing cheap?

[MastaShake99]

I dont think it is but some people apparently do...
I just feel like its part of the game
m i rite?

 

[Blackbelt]

it's not cheap if it helsp you win, and is not specifically disallowed by the rules.


Chaingrab away.

 

[Lex Crunch]

If they programmed throws with awful knockback and the ability to grab people out of the air, I can only imagine that it was intended. Since they fixed wavedashing, and L-Cancelling, they were probably carefully observing Melee. If chain throwing wasn't removed, then they probably intended for it to exist. If this is the case, then it's far from cheap, but rather, a tactic.

 

[HeroMystic]

It's cheap, but a legitimate tactic nonetheless.

Lex does bring up a good point though. Chaingrabs are very easy to spot if you discovered wavedashing.

 

[4Serial]

don't get grabbed

It's a legit strategy in tournaments

If you wanna get better, it's okay cuz it improves your skills on avoiding grabs

I guess it would be kinda lame in friendly matches, but whatever

 

[Onomanic]

I don't think it is but it's part of the game.

Edit: Oh hey 4Serial.

 

[smaci92]

it's not cheap when ice climbers do it =P...cause with Ice climbers it takes skill...go try it. it's harder then it looks...

 

[nightSN]

well the point in chain grabbing is so you and punish people hard, so dont get grabbed.

 

[Skittles]

i agree w/lex. ois part of the game since its still ther.

 

[smaci92]

well the point in chain grabbing is so you and punish people hard, so dont get grabbed.

ya i agree...people who think chaingrabbing is cheap don't bother thinking that the solution is as easy as: spacing, long ranged moves (if you have any), and DON'T GET GRABBED....

 

[Redson]

For every thread I see of this ****, I feel worse and worse for humanity. I'm pretty sure we've just categorized it as "Annoying, but a legitmate strategy" Stop making threads about this.

/r/ing a Bowser F-smash.

 

[MastaShake99]

i love chain grabbing, some kid i played online quit the match cuz i was chain grabbing lol
i guess there is nothing i can do against that.
and yeah good point smaci92 i never thought about that lol.

 

[Wildfire393]

Casual Answer: Yes. If you're play friendlies with friends and acquaintences, and you're not doing it specifically for tournament practice, Chaingrabbing can be considered very cheap, especially the ones that are infinite (ICs, DDD, Ness-released Grabs). Chaingrabs with limited use (Lucario Forcepalm CG, Kirby Fthrow to Uair CG, etc) could be considered less cheap, but play it by ear. If your friends are consistantly complaining, scoffing, or making remarks, it's probably a good idea to lay off, or at least reduce their frequency.

Competitive Answer: So what if they are? If the tournament allows them, you have to assume your opponent would use them if they had the chance. The only way to insure your competitive edge is to use them as well. Not doing so would be like not stealing bases in Baseball or not picking up the opposing team's fumble in Football. Sure, it's the "nice" thing to do, but you're certainly not going to win by being "nice".

The issue lies in a couple of things
A) They're inescapable (usually). While (almost) every other "combo" in Brawl relies heavily on prediction, and thus skill, Chaingrabs do not require prediction, only a memorized repetition of button-presses that will guarantee the next grab. This also adds to their frustration, as there is nothing the player can do about it.
B) They do not take much skill. As just stated, not much skill is required to execute the chaingrab. This makes them seem like too much of an unbalancing factor: a player who is bad could have a large advantage over a good player JUST because he knows how to do Dedede's chaingrab.
C) They were not intended to be in the game. Some people disagree, but I do not. They very specifically removed the most common chaingrabs from the last game (Wobbling, Sheik's, ganon's, mario's, marth's mostly), but (IMO) did not fully test the grabs the put in. Especially when you consider that almost every chaingrab in the game requires running shield-grabbing, which is a tactic they probably did not take into account, and the fact that they did not put a whole lot of effort into playtesting "competitively" in general, it's very likely they did not take new chaingrabs into account.

 

[smaci92]

i love chain grabbing, some kid i played online quit the match cuz i was chain grabbing lol
i guess there is nothing i can do against that.
and yeah good point smaci92 i never thought about that lol.

ya, i forgot to add that you can just stay in the air for most of the game to avoid getting grabbed....that's if your character has a decent aerial game...

 

[smaci92]

B) They do not take much skill. As just stated, not much skill is required to execute the chaingrab. This makes them seem like too much of an unbalancing factor: a player who is bad could have a large advantage over a good player JUST because he knows how to do Dedede's chaingrab.

umm...yes they DO take skill. just try some fthrow chaingrabs with ice climbers...you'll be surprised at how precise the timing is...

 

[Bowser King]

I love grab relase for boozer. He does it to almost the wole cast

Anyway, It's not cheap if it helps you (and isn't banned).

-Bowser King

 

[HeroMystic]

umm...yes they DO take skill. just try some fthrow chaingrabs with ice climbers...you'll be surprised at how precise the timing is...

Because everyone plays the Ice Climbers more than DDD and Falco.

Seriously, I don't like it, but it's a legit tactic. But it's fact that they don't take any/much skill.

The IC's chaingrab is harder to pull off, but not by much, since when you get the timing down, it's inescapable.

 

[MastaShake99]

yeah i was pika and he was fox
its not even like he was good lol
thanks everyone

 

[smaci92]

Because everyone plays the Ice Climbers more than DDD and Falco.

Seriously, I don't like it, but it's a legit tactic. But it's fact that they don't take any/much skill.

The IC's chaingrab is harder to pull off, but not by much, since when you get the timing down, it's inescapable.

more people play falco and ddd more... there's barely any Ice climber mainers, cause they're so hard to use. The ice climber boards are one of the least viewed and least popular boards on smashboards...

There's a poll on here about which characters are the most popular, and I remember Ice Climberz were one of the least popular...I'm too lazy to find the thread though...

 

[Vect0r]

Chain grabbing isn't cheap, it's a tactic. Sure, it pisses off many people, but what are they gonna do about it?

 

[Sosuke]

umm...yes they DO take skill. just try some fthrow chaingrabs with ice climbers...you'll be surprised at how precise the timing is...

Why would you do that when you can back throw,down throw?
Pointing out a difficult example doesn't make it difficult to do with the charecter if there are easier options.

 

[choknater]

nahhhh... it's not cheap lol

 

[ZeroFox]

it's not cheap at all. Maybe you should hold off on it on friendly matches just so you dont piss your friends off to the point where they dont wanna play against you anymore, but in tournament matches where money is on the line, it's a viable tactic.

 

[Luigi player]

Yes. Yes it is.

It's no fun to play as DK against a Dedede...

 

[Skink]

I think its cheap because 50+ damage or so at the cost of a grab sure doesn't feel like something that should be in the game. Otherwise skillless fools can win a game just because they can do some fools easy chaingrab (falco's, for example) to get their opponent at high damage for almost no effort. Saying don't get grabbed is kind of a ******** thing to say, because as we all know, that isn't always viable.

Also, I'm not sure I like the logic that if something isn't explicitly against "the rules" there is nothing wrong with it at all. Rules>common sense?

 

[momochuu]

No.

Don't get grabbed.

 

[MastaShake99]

Why would you do that when you can back throw,down throw?
Pointing out a difficult example doesn't make it difficult to do with the charecter if there are easier options.

hahaha agreed

 

[smaci92]

Why would you do that when you can back throw,down throw?
Pointing out a difficult example doesn't make it difficult to do with the charecter if there are easier options.

no backthrow is even harder...downthrow is hard at high percents. And I'm just trying to defend my point of view that chaingrabbing isn't easy with characters like Ice climbers, and it's not cheap...People who think it's cheap need to just calm down and think of a solution like: DON'T GET GRABBED. and you can do that by spacing and staying in the air...It's simpler than people think it is...

 

[Grunt]

cheap is another word for effective.

 

[Genome Squirrel]

chain grabbing is cheap
cheap things are good, exploit them
you'll be a better player incorporating them into you're game, if your characters can use them
you'll be a better player learning to avoid situations where you would get chain grabbed
never limit yourself

 

[kaio-ken]

my friends do that to me all the time. id say its funny

 

[M15t3R E]

Okay seriously, those who are saying IC chaingrabs are not difficult at all are making my jaw drop due to their critically high levels of ignorance. It's the most techy thing in the whole game for crying out loud!

Spoiler

YW Smaci92

If they programmed throws with awful knockback and the ability to grab people out of the air, I can only imagine that it was intended. Since they fixed wavedashing, and L-Cancelling, they were probably carefully observing Melee. If chain throwing wasn't removed, then they probably intended for it to exist. If this is the case, then it's far from cheap, but rather, a tactic.

No...
Chainthrows weren't just "left in" for Brawl. Melee and Brawl chainthrows are much, much different. Ex. Where did Marth's up-throw chainthrow go? Melee chainthrows were in fact removed.
In Melee, DI and tech rolls could help you escape a chainthrow. Chainthrows were also a bit tougher to execute. In Brawl, they are easily performed and inescapable. Something of note is that the consensus is that nearly all throws in Brawl are underpowered, including the ones that can't CG.
I believe inescapable chaingrabs/throws to be an oversight by Nintendo. But by all means use the oversight to your advantage. Being that it is inescapable, and the fact that there's a 90-something % chance that you'll get grabbed at some point if your opponent is decent, CG's are broken. Use the brokenness, but try to show a bit of skill too.

My synopsis: CG's aren't cheap unless they are abused throughout the entire match.

 

[streetracr77]

It may be "cheap" or "annoying" to the people you play, but it is doing something that is helping you win and it is not against the tournament rules. So go for it

 

[LordoftheMorning]

Advanced chaingrabbing and spamming alike require SKILL(imo). Look at samus. She's destined to spam, and no one can deny her that right by calling it cheap. Ice Climber's chaingrab is an art (or so I hear) as well as diddy's bananna shenanigans. It's hard to do it well. Chaingrabbing is just cool. It looks awesome. Even if it was cheap, who cares?

 

[LegionBrawler]

No it is not cheap

 

[IDK]

just because its cheap doesnt mean you shouldnt do it. if it makes you win. by all means do it. mental restrictions are bad.

 

[Barge]

Don't get grabbed
Only skilled players can CG with IC's

Only skilled players know what to do after CGing them to a high percent with falco/ddd.

 

[HeroMystic]

chain grabbing is cheap
cheap things are good, exploit them

Best Oct 08 post I've seen ever.

 

[Plum]

If it was cheap than the Ice Climbers would have been banned as soon as people saw they could still CG. Seriously, I think a proper tier list is Ice Climbers who have mastered CGs, MK, whatever other characters you so choose. They have one of the best if not the best grab games in Brawl but we do not call them cheap even if one grab can spell death.

And only one of their CG grabs is easy to pull off, D-throw to Fair only takes a few seconds to learn but only works up to about 30% or so until the opponent lands lying on the ground rather standing up. F-throw can be pulled off with decent practice but getting it to a level where it will actually help you win takes so much practice and skill. Every character in the game requires different timing and spacing for the regrab and it gets harder and harder with higher %'s. B-throw is even harder than that. I have been practicing their throws for weeks now I'm still only guaranteed the early D-throw to Fair in matches.

Most other CGs do require some degree of skill, you don't see every player in the world using them.
You could call grab release CGs cheap like against Ness, Lucas and Wario or if using Bowser and Yoshi but that is the risk of playing any character in the game.

 

[Barge]

If it was cheap than the Ice Climbers would have been banned as soon as people saw they could still CG. Seriously, I think a proper tier list is Ice Climbers who have mastered CGs, MK, whatever other characters you so choose. They have one of the best if not the best grab games in Brawl but we do not call them cheap even if one grab can spell death.

And only one of their CG grabs is easy to pull off, D-throw to Fair only takes a few seconds to learn but only works up to about 30% or so until the opponent lands lying on the ground rather standing up. F-throw can be pulled off with decent practice but getting it to a level where it will actually help you win takes so much practice and skill. Every character in the game requires different timing and spacing for the regrab and it gets harder and harder with higher %'s. B-throw is even harder than that. I have been practicing their throws for weeks now I'm still only guaranteed the early D-throw to Fair in matches.

Most other CGs do require some degree of skill, you don't see every player in the world using them.
You could call grab release CGs cheap like against Ness, Lucas and Wario or if using Bowser and Yoshi but that is the risk of playing any character in the game.

Its 40% from the dthrow to fair, but if you use an iceblock before they land it will force them to get up without rolling or attacking. And you can do that until about 90% where they get thrown too high to fair. Thats when you do a fthrow, then charge up an upsmash and have nana backthrow them into it.