Is it me or does every character in the game look viable?

[GamerGuy09]

I've been watching videos of Smash 4 nonstop and I have to say I'm impressed.

Every character seems good. Like I've seen R.O.B. played and he is amazing. Along with King Dedede, Luigi, and Bowser Jr. they look really good and will most likely see more play time.

Even weaker looking characters like Little Mac and Ganondorf don't look that bad, and could be refined to be viable. I could definitely see someone have a breakthrough with Little Mac and becoming top tier.

I can't wait for the future of this game.

 

[HotelWaffle]

Ness is buffness

 

[RascalTheCharizard]

The game still doesn't have a defined metagame yet, so only time will tell. But yes, I feel the same way. Whilst I have seen some rather underwhelming characters *coughLittleMaccough*, I have yet to see a character that just screams "unviable" to me.

 

[Xermo]

>little mac
>weak

 

[GamerGuy09]

>little mac
>weak

At the moment he is weak because he has piss poor recovery.

But he does hit like a truck filled with trucks.

That's why I think he will become huge once someone masters him.

 

[RascalTheCharizard]

>little mac
>weak

Not weak in terms of strength, but he just seems too linear and to be blunt, kind of easy to punish compared to most characters. He needs more options (having borderline unusable aerials certainly doesn't help matters).

At the moment he is weak because he has piss poor recovery.

Also this. Throw offstage -> Aerial attack -> Profit.

Marth/Lucina is also a "linear" character in my eyes, but (s)he at least has a sword and better recovery.

 

[GamerGuy09]

Not weak in terms of strength, but he just seems too linear and to be blunt, kind of easy to punish compared to most characters. He needs more options (having borderline unusable aerials certainly doesn't help matters).

Also this. Throw offstage -> Aerial attack -> Profit.

Marth/Lucina is also a "linear" character in my eyes, but (s)he at least has a sword and better recovery.

One of the things I see people who are trying out Little Mac is that they jump.

Don't ever f%$king jump with Little Mac.

There is no reason to jump. You are vulnerable and your aerials are horrible.

Keep to the ground ALWAYS.

Also I believe his Neutral B has super armor and people don't utilize it, maybe I'm wrong though.

 

[Xermo]

At the moment he is weak because he has piss poor recovery.

A lot of Melee's top tiers had piss poor recoveries, yet they're still top tier/viable.
Even with a bad air game, mac certainly isn't "weak"

 

[GamerGuy09]

A lot of Melee's top tiers had piss poor recoveries, yet they're still top tier/viable.
Even with a bad air game, mac certainly isn't "weak"

That's true, but that was Melee. Smash 4 is Smash 4.

Where almost everyone can recover from anywhere, especially with the new Ledge mechanics.

I'm not hating on Little Mac. I think he will be a great character overtime, but his recovery is horrible right now. You seen the streams right? His Up-B goes no where and his side-b is only a little bit better. If you go an inch under the stage you are a goner.

 

[Kero the Invincible]

It's probably just the hope talking, you'll be fine in a few months.

Just kidding, but yeah. I'm feeling dangerous enough to say I have high hopes. The custom moves have me especially jazzed. Just the idea of EVERYONE potentially having 4 decent specials is enough for me.

 

[GamerGuy09]

It's probably just the hope talking, you'll be fine in a few months.

Just kidding, but yeah. I'm feeling dangerous enough to say I have high hopes. The custom moves have me especially jazzed. Just the idea of EVERYONE potentially having 4 decent specials is enough for me.

There is an custom up special for Jiggs that replaces her worthless lullaby with a move that works like Mario's cape.

 

[Doc.Pringles]

From what I've heard, Zelda and Sonic are the only two that really come to mind as possibly unviable, and even that is a little 'strong'. Like you said, most feel viable, but I think that's mainly because most characters now have "niches" that make me unique. Niches that, when mastered, will be hard to handle. Things like Rosalina's puppeting, Mac's ground-and-pound, Shulk's stances, Robin's fluctuating strength, PAC-man's disjointed hit boxes, mga-man's zoning harass (moreso than samus), Shiek's return to melee-physics, DHD's ability to taunt others without needing to taunt, Olimar's pikmin, Marth's tipping, Etc.. You can go on and on..

In addition, there were many necessary buffs, such as Rob, Link, G&W, Bowser.. I feel like ssb4's meta-game will be more focused on matches, not entirely skill and strategery.

However, I can definitely see Shiek and Bowser Jr as top-tier. Shiek for obvious reasons, and B Jr with him being one of the heaviest characters with a small frame, decent speed, good recovery, great zoning harass, and fantastic aerials. He will be a handful..

 

[M&Mavocado]

...Kidding. Hopefully this game is better balanced and I can play as my beloved Ganondorf without fear.

 

[SmasherP83]

...Kidding. Hopefully this game is better balanced and I can play as my beloved Ganondorf without fear.

Oh Syndrome why must you be so smart? Joking aside at least I can play as Ganondorf without having to master a new moveset.

 

[SuperGuzzi]

If custom moves are legal, then everyone is a viable character.

 

[Jiggy37]

Other than maybe Little Mac, Charizard, and Ganondorf, pretty much every character I've watched on ZeRo's stream from either his side or the opponent has performed well: Captain Falcon, Bowser, Jigglypuff, Ness, Duck Hunt Dog, Dark Pit, Mario, Dr. Mario, Luigi, Marth, Lucina, Sheik, Mega Man, Zero Suit Samus, King Dedede, Robin, Diddy Kong, Meta Knight, Greninja, Lucario, and even Yoshi and Sonic.


I'm sure some characters' inherent flaws will emerge over time or we'll find some really terrible matchups that ruin a character's viability. But for now, yeah, things are looking really good.

 

[Meta-Kraid]

How do Link and Ike look? Shulk seems amazing, and I'm a little sad about Little Mac. How light is he? All that muscle has to do something to make him heavier. I might actually main Bowser considering his buffs.

 

[GamerGuy09]

How do Link and Ike look? Shulk seems amazing, and I'm a little sad about Little Mac. How light is he? All that muscle has to do something to make him heavier. I might actually main Bowser considering his buffs.

Link is very good. He can windbox combo with his boomerang. His new Dash Attack is very good.

I haven't seen much Ike.

Little Mac is near the middle to light heavy class.

He isn't Jiggs, but he can be hit pretty far.

 

[Deathcarter]

How do Link and Ike look? Shulk seems amazing, and I'm a little sad about Little Mac. How light is he? All that muscle has to do something to make him heavier. I might actually main Bowser considering his buffs.

Here's a pretty good video I've seen of Ike:

Looks solid up close but I feel his recovery will really bite him when players get more aggressive with gimping.

 

[GamerGuy09]

Here's a pretty good video I've seen of Ike:

Looks solid up close but I feel his recovery will really bite him when players get more aggressive with gimping.

Did you SEE his custom up b? It goes diagonal!

 

[Meta-Kraid]

Here's a pretty good video I've seen of Ike:

Looks solid up close but I feel his recovery will really bite him when players get more aggressive with gimping.

He always has his side B if he was launched more diagonally than out, but he's a heavyweight so that's a little unlikely...

 

[GamerGuy09]

Did anyone just SEE that ROB vs DHD match between Chibo and RJ?

This is the future of Smash, so hype!

 

[RascalTheCharizard]

Here's a pretty good video I've seen of Ike:

Looks solid up close but I feel his recovery will really bite him when players get more aggressive with gimping.

Well, at least Meta Knight's Up B's base knockback was reduced. Shouldn't OHKO Ike when used near the ledge (or anywhere on stage for that matter) anymore.

 

[Cap'nChreest]

Ganon, Link, Ike, Falco, Lucina, Diddy Kong, Samus, Little mac, and Bowser Jr. all suck. GG thread.

We know nothing about the game yet. Its not very accurate to say everyone is good.

Spoiler: Smash 4 day 1 tier list

Spoiler: S tier

Everyone

 

[GamerGuy09]

Ganon, Link, Ike, Falco, Lucina, Diddy Kong, Samus, and Bowser Jr. all suck. GG thread.

I know half of those are just wrong.

Link is good, Ike is good, Samus and Bowser Jr. are both good.

Not sure about the rest.

 

[Cap'nChreest]

I know half of those are just wrong.

Link is good, Ike is good, Samus and Bowser Jr. are both good.

Not sure about the rest.

Nope.

A lot of the bad characters got buffed. But so did a lot of the good characters. This is all speculation though. Its not like either of us have played the full game.

I just know I've gotten 5 kills of off a lvl 9 Link in 2 minutes when I was Mario multiple times. other characters its harder to for me to kill that many times. Link isn't very good imo.

Mario is super good though,

Not like either of us know anything about the full game though. Since its only been out less than a week in a country neither of us live in hahaha.

 

[GamerGuy09]

Nope.

A lot of the bad characters got buffed. But so did a lot of the good characters. This is all speculation though. Its not like either of us have played the full game.

I just know I've gotten 5 kills of off a lvl 9 Link in 2 minutes when I was Mario multiple times. other characters its harder to for me to kill that many times. Link isn't very good imo.

Mario is super good though.

Cause Level 9 CPUs can beat the pros?

 

[Cap'nChreest]

Cause Level 9 CPUs can beat the pros?

This is all speculation though. Its not like either of us have played the full game.

This^^^

Also no one is a pro just yet. The game hasn't been out long enough for anyone to be "good" at it. Everyone is just playing from Smash Bros fundamentals for the most part. That's not really a good reason to think everyone is good. Though that's likely the reason it looks like everyone is good.

There isn't enough info about characters weaknesses other than glaring ones.

Spoiler: Example 1

 

[Ffamran]

Not weak in terms of strength, but he just seems too linear and to be blunt, kind of easy to punish compared to most characters. He needs more options (having borderline unusable aerials certainly doesn't help matters).

Also this. Throw offstage -> Aerial attack -> Profit.

Marth/Lucina is also a "linear" character in my eyes, but (s)he at least has a sword and better recovery.

That's really ironic since even though boxers work with like 5 moves: jabs, straights, hooks, uppercuts, and overcuts, they're generally very deceptive and can pull off combos on the fly. Having bad aerials makes sense and acts as a balance for his powerful ground game, but a boxer who's linear really takes away from his ground game especially in a world where people can shoot fireballs, cast spells, use futuristic gear, and are superhuman. For an example of someone like Little Mac: Ike's great on ground, but he has range and decent air game.

 

[Meta-Kraid]

CPUs aren't the best judge, may I direct you to Luigi doing nothing in Melee and somehow killing every character, including Fox 5 times? It took almost 100 for Samus and about 12 for the Ice Climbers. CPUs are idiots. The KOing might have something to do with weight, Link isn't the heaviest, but Ike and Ganondorf are heavy so what you're saying has some truth.

 

[Cap'nChreest]

CPUs aren't the best judge, may I direct you to Luigi doing nothing in Melee and somehow killing every character, including Fox 5 times? It took almost 100 for Samus and about 12 for the Ice Climbers. CPUs are idiots. The KOing might have something to do with weight, Link isn't the heaviest, but Ike and Ganondorf are heavy so what you're saying has some truth.

Comparing AI between games? Melee AI was terrible. Brawl AI is really good imo. I literally have a hard time killing them in Brawl. Brawl AI is super difficult. I've been playing Brawl for a long time now. Recently got 1st in a tourney and still have difficulty beating lvl 9's with some characters. In Smash 4 a game with supposedly better AI than Brawl? Getting 5 stocks off of a character in 2 minutes? Idk dude. But then again...

Games not out yet. Just speculation.

 

[Weeman]

Ganon, Link, Ike, Falco, Lucina, Diddy Kong, Samus, Little mac, and Bowser Jr. all suck. GG thread.

We know nothing about the game yet. Its not very accurate to say everyone is good.

Spoiler: Smash 4 day 1 tier list

Spoiler: S tier

Everyone

I agree that it's way too early to make tiers.
But after watching many streams, and hearing a lot of opinions, everyone does seems VIABLE, and by that i mean that there's no one who is so blatantly bad like Dorf in Brawl.
The way aerials work in this game make it so that all characters have a decent air game (except for Little Mac), since the only aerials that have a lot of lag are the most powerful ones, such as Falcon's knee, Falco's Dair, Mario's Fair, etc...
That along with the buff of rolling, and the return of decent hitstun makes everyone seem at least capable of keeping the pace with other characters, as well as having some decent combos.
Heck even Ganondorf could keep a good pacing against ZSS in a match i saw, wich wasn't casual or anything.
So while in the end there will inevitably be characters that are better than others, no one seems to downright SUCK this time around.

 

[Cap'nChreest]

I agree that it's way too early to make tiers.
But after watching many streams, and hearing a lot of opinions, everyone does seems VIABLE, and by that i mean that there's no one who is so blatantly bad like Dorf in Brawl.
The way aerials work in this game make it so that all characters have a decent air game (except for Little Mac), since the only aerials that have a lot of lag are the most powerful ones, such as Falcon's knee, Falco's Dair, Mario's Fair, etc...
That along with the buff of rolling, and the return of decent hitstun makes everyone seem at least capable of keeping the pace with other characters, as well as having some decent combos.
Heck even Ganondorf could keep a good pacing against ZSS in a match i saw, wich wasn't casual or anything.
So while in the end there will inevitably be characters that are better than others, no one seems to downright SUCK this time around.

Characters may not totally suck (yet) but there are characters that are blatantly good. (as of right now)

 

[Aunt Jemima]

Okay, I need help from SmashBoards members.

I need to find videos of GOOD PLAYERS (aka people that don't suck) using Kirby and Duck Hunt Dog.

I MUST KNOW IF THEY'RE VIABLE OR NOT!

 

[Weeman]

Okay, I need help from SmashBoards members.

I need to find videos of GOOD PLAYERS (aka people that don't suck) using Kirby and Duck Hunt Dog.

I MUST KNOW IF THEY'RE VIABLE OR NOT!

Check Shofu's twitch right now, some guy is using Kirby and he's good.

 

[Cap'nChreest]

Okay, I need help from SmashBoards members.

I need to find videos of GOOD PLAYERS (aka people that don't suck) using Kirby and Duck Hunt Dog.

I MUST KNOW IF THEY'RE VIABLE OR NOT!

not really the thread for this. There's a social thread I'm sure you know about.

Go watch VGBC's stream. DHD I hear is the new Diddy/Snake. So that's good. They play a lot of Duck Hunt Dog.

 

[GamerGuy09]

Okay, I need help from SmashBoards members.

I need to find videos of GOOD PLAYERS (aka people that don't suck) using Kirby and Duck Hunt Dog.

I MUST KNOW IF THEY'RE VIABLE OR NOT!

I think RJ played DH on ClashTournament and he is very strong. Imagine Snake, but 10x more zoning potential.

 

[Blitzus]

It kills me to say it, but Ike looks terrible.

 

[Aunt Jemima]

not really the thread for this. There's a social thread I'm sure you know about.

Go watch VGBC's stream. DHD I hear is the new Diddy/Snake. So that's good. They play a lot of Duck Hunt Dog.

Thank youuu~

Also, sorry for going off-topic.

ON-TOPIC:

I haven't seen any characters that are complete crap yet, which is great. Even characters like Ganondorf can get kills. While I'm sure there'll still be characters that are better than others, this is by far the best balancing done in any Smash Bros. game.

 

[Ffamran]

It kills me to say it, but Ike looks terrible.

Your avatar... Umm... What were you talking about again? Oh, yes, Ike... Er... Lost my train of thought...