Is it possible to beat pros with uncanny skill?

[kevo2488]

Instead of "special techniques"?

I don't have time to constantly practice the abusive glitches in Brawl.

Is is possible to play naturally, I mean with wit, and beat "skilled" players?

For example:

I may not know how to do a crouch cancel, per se, but I know that in certain situations, I need to do crouch cancelling without thinking about it.

I know this may sound confusing, but I don't like the thought of naming techniques and actively selecting them in the heat of battle.

 

[Spudnick]

If what you're trying to say is, execute a technique without even thinking about it to help you out, thats what the pros do. They use the advanced techniques so often that they can just play without having to think about it.

 

[kevo2488]

I get what you're saying, but do they practice it until it's second nature? Or do they just play and experience different things until its just natural playing?

 

[whoady4shoady]

The best players in every game adapt to their surroundings while they are happening. This is what anyone who is good at anything has to do in order to be the greatest. This includes all sports and anything competitive.

You must practice in order to react to different situations that occur to you instantly to but yourself in the best possible position for a counter attack.

 

[Chaosblade77]

Put it this way: If you have to actively think to use a tactic, you don't know it well enough to try to incorporate it into your game. That sort of thinking is going to put your opponent a step ahead of you, because their tactics will be second nature.

 

[redgreenblue]

I get what you're saying, but do they practice it until it's second nature? Or do they just play and experience different things until its just natural playing?

Those two are basically the same.

Techniques are patterns that are modulated onto your current patterns. Being able to recognize when patterns can be used to counter other patterns is just recognition. Smash Brothers at its core is math.

So, basically, just use techniques a lot and you won't have to think of which could help, you'll just know.

 

[Radical Dreamer]

The answer is no. Because "uncanny skill" is precisely what pros have and the average player doesn't.

 

[shadydentist]

You want to be good, you have to put the time into it. Theres no way around it. Some people need to put in more time than others, but ultimately, its about experience.

 

[Taymond]

How can you expect to be good at anything, much less destroy professional players, without practice? That's absurd. It's almost spoiled.

In order to get better at something, you need to practice. That doesn't have to be dedicated, sitting in training mode practice, but you need to practice. People who play well don't analyze every step, that's why they practice, so they don't have to.

If you think you can just "know" innately enough to trounced professional players, let me assure you.. you can't. They have more options available to them because they have more knowledge, and they have more experience using that knowledge. Just like anything else in life, if you want to play well, you have to work at it.

And crouch cancelling is gone.

 

[Tomanator33]

If it does not come second nature then you really will never pull it off in a real battle. A pro can pull off anything they want just as a reaction. Thats why they are pro.

 

[Firestorm88]

A high level player doesn't think about a technique... It's just part of the game. A wavedash in Melee has the same amount of thought put into it as a sidestep. It's not tech skill that makes a high level player high level. I mean, it's part of it, but most of it is the mindgames. They're thinking much faster and much better than someone without any experience such as yourself.

Play more people. Practice. Then you'll get better.

 

[really_calm]

experience and lots of practice gives you "uncanny skill"

pros play A LOT of smash; that's the reason they're so good. No one is naturally good at brawl to the point of being the level of a pro without a bunch of practice.

so if you're asking if you can beat the people who practice a lot of smash by practicing less and just being innately good (which doesn't make any sense), I would say not likely

In terms of the abusive glitches, correct me if I'm wrong, but there's no abusive glitch found yet that completely breaks the game to the point where another person who has equal skill and experience would be completely dominated or be at a clear disadvantage if they didn't know and practice that glitch. Although it is possible for that to happen (shuffl and wavedash).

 

[WastingPenguins]

Probably about as well as you can beat chess masters without studying or practicing chess strategy. Seriously though, what the hell is with this lazy attitude? Why shouldn't the people who practice a lot, at ANYTHING in life, be better than you? Of course they will be.

 

[The Blackstar]

Instead of "special techniques"?

I don't have time to constantly practice the abusive glitches in Brawl.

Is is possible to play naturally, I mean with wit, and beat "skilled" players?

For example:

I may not know how to do a crouch cancel, per se, but I know that in certain situations, I need to do crouch cancelling without thinking about it.

I know this may sound confusing, but I don't like the thought of naming techniques and actively selecting them in the heat of battle.

Wtf? The purpose of naming techniques isn't so you can think about the name in the heat of battle, it's so information can quickly and accurately be passed on within the community.

It was easier to say "crouch cancel" than say "hold down on the control stick so that when a move hits you, you take the damage but not the stun and knockback."

And for your information, part of "wit" is knowing when and where to use those techniques. That's what makes people good.

I'd say that SHFFLing was probably one of the most influential techniques in melee because it sped up characters so much. How is that an abusive glitch when everything in a shffl was purposely programmed into the game?

 

[drag0nfeather]

Uncanny skill is a vague term. The bifurcation of the topic is 'technical skill' and 'metagaming/mindgames/mind-reading/adaptation'.

The answer is yes. If you know what your opponent is going to do, you can always stop it. Of course, if the technical skill of your opponent involves an unescapable approach into an unescapable combo, e.g. unpredictable or never-before-seen-by-your-eyes movement that results in an Ice-Climbers' infinite grab, then a line is drawn.

A friend of mine once said, "You know what I hate about newbs? They're so unpredictable." So, for example, even though he has experience and knows a bit of technical skill that can only be derived by reading the esoteric stuff on these boards, the newb will catch his opponent unawares occasionally. Unless that technical skill trumps metagaming, the answer is yes.

Games that require metagaming skill to decide once and for all are the best.

 

[Smo]

Yeah the techniques are named so people know what you're on about. Another example is wavedashing. For me, that was a natural way of moving. I don't think "SHFFL'd Nair, Wavedash"
It just comes. Imagine if I had to decribe that by saying "I tapped the jump button for less than 3 frames (Fox player), then I released the control stick and press A to do a neutral air, then I quickly pressed down on the control stick to speed up my fall, pressing L upon landing to cancel my lag. Then I did another jump but quickly dodged at the ground, causing my character to slide in an unusual manner"

Basically, if you want to get good without learning techniques, good luck. Because that's a contradiction. Advanced or not, as you play, you're learning more about the techniques in the games, when to apply them and how to best use them. The "pros" do this, but with advanced strings of moves.

 

[Orpheus]

Actually, 'Noobs' simply spam attacks. They do the same attacks over and over again, turning very predictable.
I believe Pros are the opposite, making small changes that can change the game.

 

[Pabs]

Instead of "special techniques"?

I don't have time to constantly practice the abusive glitches in Brawl.

Is is possible to play naturally, I mean with wit, and beat "skilled" players?

For example:

I may not know how to do a crouch cancel, per se, but I know that in certain situations, I need to do crouch cancelling without thinking about it.

I know this may sound confusing, but I don't like the thought of naming techniques and actively selecting them in the heat of battle.

This is what I basically read:

Instead of "learning 2 play"

I don't know how to play this game or tech in any way shape or form, and I'm too busy, arrogant, and have a life unlike all you heathens

Is it possible to button mash and play with inexperience and beat a "pro"?

For example:

I don't know how to grab, per se, but I know that in certain situations, I need to do grabs without thinking about it.

I know this may sound stupid, but I don't like the thought of working at a game to get better, I'd rather use my 5 hours of experience to win me tournaments against skilled players. Halp

 

[dr0go]

well if you practice against people you will eventually get better at beating people and knowing what they usually so you can react to it so if you play against good people youll eventually become good enough to beat them

 

[shadydentist]

TI know this may sound stupid, but I don't like the thought of working at a game to get better, I'd rather use my 5 hours of experience to win me tournaments against skilled players. Halp

Sorry, theres no way to get better without putting in the work. You can run over the pitcher's mound to get to second base, but you're still gonna get called out.

 

[theONEjanitor]

it sounds like you're asking, "can i win without practicing".
and the answer to that is a resounding no.

and that goes for any activity in the universe that you will ever do in your life.

 

[DrakeFreedom]

arrg must hold back!

 

[pyro363]

Yea if you can fight like me without the glitches anything is possible in the games of smash bros.

 

[GofG]

You're asking if there's a way to beat pros without having to practice.

You have piqued my curiosity. If you discover a method, please tell me. I will need to work up a counter strategy to it.

*Oh man, shamelessly implying that I'm pro.*

 

[kevo2488]

I like all the answers. I understand why I need to practice. I raised this question because I'm a relatively good Smash player compared to most of my friends. There's one that is pissing me off at the moment. He's never played a smash game in his life and he can beat me almost every time after a week of playing. I just hate how fast he learns. This guy plays video games ALL day and most involve millisecond-quick reactions. It's like this for all the games he plays. The only games I can beat him at are COD4 and a few other games. I'm afraid if I take don't keep up with playing, then he'll stomp me every single time. I usually win 1/3 matches against him.

Another question: Will fighting someone better than you make you as good as, or even better than the person you're competing with.

And also, he can pull out some impressive skills with his last stock. I've brought him to 1 life while I've had 3, and he'd come back and whoop me to 0. I hate that ****.

 

[alcheato]

I like all the answers. I understand why I need to practice. I raised this question because I'm a relatively good Smash player compared to most of my friends. There's one that is pissing me off at the moment. He's never played a smash game in his life and he can beat me almost every time after a week of playing. I just hate how fast he learns. This guy plays video games ALL day and most involve millisecond-quick reactions. It's like this for all the games he plays. The only games I can beat him at are COD4 and a few other games. I'm afraid if I take don't keep up with playing, then he'll stomp me every single time. I usually win 1/3 matches against him.

Another question: Will fighting someone better than you make you as good as, or even better than the person you're competing with.

And also, he can pull out some impressive skills with his last stock. I've brought him to 1 life while I've had 3, and he'd come back and whoop me to 0. I hate that ****.

Playing people better than you is the best way to get better at any game--especially if you play people of varying styles. You can't expect to be better than someone (or even on par with them) right away if he's better than you when you start but it will help you improve fast to see what things that person is doing that you're not and to see how he capitalizes on your mistakes.

Also in response to your first post, crouch-canceling is not in Brawl.

 

[drag0nfeather]

I like all the answers. I understand why I need to practice. I raised this question because I'm a relatively good Smash player compared to most of my friends. There's one that is pissing me off at the moment. He's never played a smash game in his life and he can beat me almost every time after a week of playing. I just hate how fast he learns. This guy plays video games ALL day and most involve millisecond-quick reactions. It's like this for all the games he plays. The only games I can beat him at are COD4 and a few other games. I'm afraid if I take don't keep up with playing, then he'll stomp me every single time. I usually win 1/3 matches against him.

Another question: Will fighting someone better than you make you as good as, or even better than the person you're competing with.

And also, he can pull out some impressive skills with his last stock. I've brought him to 1 life while I've had 3, and he'd come back and whoop me to 0. I hate that ****.

If he's better than you, it's nearly impossible to defeat them. The only way is to advance your technical skill to such a level that it is unescapable (infinite combo) or keep calm and think smarter than your opponent, which seems to be impossible since you claim that he has mastered your every move.

I don't have my Wii. I've only played it at my friends' houses but I was the master of SSB64 and SSBM in my group of friends. I can already **** my close Melee training partner unbelievably easily due to the emphasis on mindgames rather than technical skill in Brawl. He won the first 3, then I just beat him round after round after round. He had a 10% chance of winning any match, particularly when I sandbagged.

The best way to improve is to play against better opponents. No bots. It's not about doing a 0% to 999% combo on a bot when you're facing humans. It's about doing 10x more damage to your opponent than yourself consistently.

 

[Rapid_Assassin]

Maybe these pros have "uncanny skill" in their advanced techniques too? Just a thought...

 

[GofG]

Why isn't this locked?

 

[TechnoMonster]

I have no idea why this isn't locked, but to answer the general question, M2K said that the most important thing that is required for you to become the best is dedication in his interview with Styrks or AZ or someone (sorry for lack of credit)

You will only improve while playing better players if you dedicate yourself to becoming better and overcoming them.

edit:

Instead of "special techniques"?

I don't have time to constantly practice the abusive glitches in Brawl.

Is is possible to play naturally, I mean with wit, and beat "skilled" players?

For example:

I may not know how to do a crouch cancel, per se, but I know that in certain situations, I need to do crouch cancelling without thinking about it.

I know this may sound confusing, but I don't like the thought of naming techniques and actively selecting them in the heat of battle.

Woah woah woah... I almost thought this thread could be realistically good for a second.

It's not the crazy techniques that the pros choose that make them the best; it's the fact that when it comes down to it they know what you're going to do and how to control you (you being a scrubbo, no offense). If you don't THINK about what you're doing, you can't understand how to beat them, because you will tend to "react" a certain way.

Azen is the best because he has no habits.
Ken is the best because he knows what you will do, and what you won't do.
PC and KDJ are the best because they give you no room to breathe.
M2K is the best because when he touches you, you die.

If you can't stop to understand how these players operate in terms of the game and how you play, you will always lose to them.

 

[Ojanya]

"Naturally" is completely irrelevant. You will never beat a pro if you are casual. End of story.

 

[Foxy]

Pros are players with "skill" that have developed it.

Developed "skill" will defeat raw "skill".



But on a more serious note, it is entirely possible in Brawl because there are just not that many useful advanced techniques in it and there never will. In Melee a smart casual could never even hope to beat someone extremely stupid who is used to playing at a high, competitive level. But in Brawl, sure, it's possible. The gap between pros and casuals has been mostly closed.

Enjoy.

 

[Ørion]

To put it short, there is no magic secret that will make you instantly better than everyone else. There is no one tactic that will make you win. The pros have spent hours and hours and hours practicing and perfecting their techniques to win. You cannot magically beat this dedication with a secret training method. As for your friend, it sounds like he plays a lot of video games so he has extremely good hand-eye coordination and reaction time. He might also be a good tactician and see the game on a different level than most people, but even this cannot beat the level of dedication some have put into this game. It also seems that even though he has only had the game for a week, he has practiced a whole lot in this week.

 

[Taymond]

To answer your latest question... as other have mentioned, yes, player someone better than you is a great way to improve. Playing someone who can kick the crap out of you demonstrates quite clearly where you need to improve, and you can take the time to do so.

To reiterate, though, if you came here looking for an easy out to becoming better, you won't find it. Brawl is no different than anything in life. If you want to get better, you have to work to improve. You need to make an effort to get better, or you won't get better.

Learn from your mistakes. See how he beats you, and figure out what you need to do to avoid that.

 

[rigapeen]

your best shot is to challenge him to a 1 stock match and play the most f ucked up way possible that he can't find a counter before he dies.

other than that you could put on bill fillmaff's sunglasses and hope you can make soul reads to infinite tech chase.

 

[Timat the Slayer]

Well, I may not be a 'pro' so to speak, but I think I get an understanding on what you mean.

People who are 'pros' in games and such, don't really think about what 'technique' they should do next, or that sort of thing. Basically, as long as you know how to do a technique, and can perform it on a rather regular basis, it allows you to open up more possibilities in more situations, allowing you more flexibility (thus adaptability).

I personally use that way of thinking when reading about some of these things. I read them, try them out a little, memorize the timing on it for the most part (I'm just a fast learner, so it may be different for you), and when in the middle of playing, I come to a situation where that would work best, I use it. I don't rely on a single technique, because then you become predictable, and you don't want to go and flaunt everything you CAN do, because then people will EXPECT you to do that stuff.

So, you don't actually have to know all the names and crap, and you don't have to really practice it, unless you think you'll end up needing it at some point. Practicing one or two things here and there, wouldn't take more than a few random friendlies, and would pay off in the long run.

And as for your question, yeah, you could beat 'pros' with wit. It's unlikely, because they could beat you in a lot more situations than you could beat them, but it's still possible. Or bullsh*t. But Wit is what makes the difference from pro and nub.

 

[GenisSage]

Its true raw skill is good but being pro is better. You might be the upper hand in the begining but once the pro gets ur moves then youre done for. Its best to practice and then u can see if you can withstand the other pros