Ringedge
Smash Apprentice
There has been about 5 or so years or advancement in the metagame since the last one was made, or is it not different enough to matter? It also takes a big effort from the whole community to get accurate results.
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The way I look at it is you want to figure out the greatest degree to which you can humiliate your opponent. That could involve choosing the worst matchup and beating him anyway.Knowing how hard a matchup is is the opposite of useful. You want to be thinking about how to beat your opponent, not whether it's ok that you are losing to them.
The problem with match-up charts is that it's difficult to empirically collect evidence for them.
Unless you're able to somehow get a large sample of match outcomes between players of relatively even, high levels of skill, the chart isn't really going to be any more accurate than previous charts are now.
Especially considering how underrepresented most lower tier characters are and how hard it is to judge player skill relatively to one another.
I kind of agree with these posts. But something I've figured out is that MUs are almost irrelevant among good characters (top 8) and good players. They still aren't overly important when you get down to characters like Luigi and Pikachu (Yoshi is a bit different since FD hard counters him and simple good shielding and not jumping into DJ armor makes you really safe lol. The MU is so easy for spacies if you abuse dair/lasers (both), shield, and avoid getting shield grabbed which is super slow.). In general I think MU charts are kind of pointless unless you're learning the game cause idk the last time I even thought to look at it. Hardly ever in relevant MUs do you get to a point where you feel your character stopped you from winning and you feasibly couldn't have played much better. Tier Lists are a bit more fun and a little less trivial imo.Every matchup chart made in the last 5 years has failed. People don't agree on numbers, or what they mean, and it ends up a huge mess.
If one was to be made, I think it needs to happen with the "OT Matchup System", which is simple and streamlined. There are three matchup ratios
Evenish
Advantage
90-10
Outside of that, good luck agreeing on whether someting is 60/40, or 65/35
Sure if you're Borp, but the majority of newer players care more about getting good at the game than they do about humiliating opponents they are better than anyway.The way I look at it is you want to figure out the greatest degree to which you can humiliate your opponent. That could involve choosing the worst matchup and beating him anyway.
Also this.Hardly ever in relevant MUs do you get to a point where you feel your character stopped you from winning and you feasibly couldn't have played much better.
This is an important point.70% of the match ups never occur (at least often enough) in a tournament setting at a high level anyway. It's more or less pointless.
This is where I stopped reading. This is why we need to have only ranked players allowed to vote.Sheik-Bowser = Skewed Sheik
so you basically read the whole thing?This is where I stopped reading. This is why we need to have only ranked players allowed to vote.
This is the problem with these threads too. Only letting high ranked players vote on the match ups is sensible, but it severely limits what characters are represented.This is where I stopped reading. This is why we need to have only ranked players allowed to vote.
The perfect example of people working out 50-50 or 60-40:Every matchup chart made in the last 5 years has failed. People don't agree on numbers, or what they mean, and it ends up a huge mess.
If one was to be made, I think it needs to happen with the "OT Matchup System", which is simple and streamlined. There are three matchup ratios
Evenish
Advantage
90-10
Outside of that, good luck agreeing on whether someting is 60/40, or 65/35
I believe Victra suggested something similar above. It really would streamline the process. That way you wouldn't see a page of good top tier discussion interrupted by "Hey guys, let's spend 5 pages talking about Mewtwo's nair in his match up with Ness"If you're making a matchup chart, its really unimportant what that matchup between bowser and kirby is for their placements. A matchups value to the chart overall is equal to how often it is played.
You could shorten the process and make a chart for only the top X characters. If you want to include the low tiers, only provide their matchup ratios against the top X characters, that way there is no pointless speculation.