Is pessimism ruining the hype for smash 4?

[fearless.leader]

I dont get all the disapointment, from what Ive played of smash the core game is spot on and theres loads of customization options that can only help us balance the game if used correctly. I think people are most dissapointed by the roster but guys..cmon

if there are characters you dont like that just means you can beat them up more.

 

[Deleted member]

Basically, people were expecting the second coming of Jesus and instead they got a video game with a deadline.

But it's not the majority that is complaining about the final game, just a vocal minority. There are lots of us who can easily adapt to this new game, and we'll enjoy it nonetheless.

No need to take people's negativity so seriously at this point. They are not going to stop, and there's naught we can do to change that. Nothing to do but laugh and carry on.

 

[Walfan]

Keep in mind that someone complaining doesn't necessarily thinks the game is bad, people are simply more vocal about the things that displease them.
I like to complain myself about cuts and the presence of two versions but I'm still extremely hype for the game and think it's looking fantastic.

 

[Ursaguy]

If people who had played the game gave it bad reviews citing sloppy design, i'd be worried. But it's the "lol no Ridley dis sux" crowd doing most of the complaining, and I just ignore that stuff.

 

[hotdogturtle]

Any kind of opinions or pessimism are going to be completely erased and started fresh when the US version comes out. Remember, for everything you're hearing (in English communities anyway), it's a very vocal minority of people who have imported foreign copies of the game. Even if they're influencing a small amount of people's opinions before the game comes out, everything that happens before October 3 will be drowned out when the masses have access to the game.

Now yeah, it's possible that the cycle could repeat itself in a month and people start being pessimistic all over again. But that will all be post-release stuff, and nothing that happens now is going to affect the "launch period".

 

[Renji64]

People are just being real about the game after the last entry. Not everyone has their head up sakurai's behind. You also shouldn't let other people ruin your hype for something you want to play.

 

[Mooplet]

You can have hype, sure.

Slow, floaty, combo-free hype.

 

[VKatana]

Despite being the creator of the Disappointments Thread, I love almost everything about this game so far (with the exception of Dark Pit). I'm extremely hyped no matter what kind of meta game it has, or what the Melee or Brawl community thinks of it. Pessimism does negatively affect the hype, but once people start playing this, they're going to realize it's great. Hype-killers can play Melee Fox only Final Destination no items all they want. I'll take Sm4sh any day.

 

[Soshii]

Pessimism and opinions are one thing, finding out about some stuff you were expecting is another. Neither apply to me at all, so no, I'm still hyped. I don't understand how the former would deter someone's excitement.

 

[Mooplet]

Despite being the creator of the Disappointments Thread, I love almost everything about this game so far (with the exception of Dark Pit). I'm extremely hyped no matter what kind of meta game it has, or what the Melee or Brawl community thinks of it. Pessimism does negatively affect the hype, but once people start playing this, they're going to realize it's great. Hype-killers can play Melee Fox only Final Destination no items all they want. I'll take Sm4sh any day.

I think you're missing the point that some of us like to play games for the gameplay.

I can't stand hearing people declare that they like or dislike a game before it's released- same with claiming to have a "main" because they recognize their favorite character from another series.

I might like this game, I might not... but putting people down for not swearing loyalty to the latest installment of the series is what drives the community apart.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Nope I ignore thos people because Most of what they say is just tallk out of their butt.

 

[Lord Goomy]

I think you're missing the point that some of us like to play games for the gameplay.

I can't stand hearing people declare that they like or dislike a game before it's released- same with claiming to have a "main" because they recognize their favorite character from another series.

I might like this game, I might not... but putting people down for not swearing loyalty to the latest installment of the series is what drives the community apart.

And people condemning the game before it comes out because they're overly salty about Ridley or Mewtwo not being in the game are driving the community apart as well.

Honestly, people being concerned about gameplay are not that bothersome. It is completely understandable to be skeptical or worried about the affects of something like vectoring in competitive play. What is not understandable is the people whining that "'x' character didn't get in but Dark Pit did? Sakurai is a troll and doesn't care about the fans." as if they know anything about making a game and character design.

 

[Enderwoman]

No the hype was already dead.

Speak for yourself.

 

[The Slayer]

Speak for yourself.

He does that a lot. Best way to cure purely pessimistic people like him is with ignore.

Aside from that, not heavily. If you expect too much, it'll hit you harder than being pessimistic but clearly doesn't help being full-blown pessimistic after a few characters you barely touch (and barely will) in actuality isn't in the roster nor certain game mechanics is considered to hit the meta for this game hard (more so when the Wii U version isn't out yet). Good opinions are fine, but hive mind ones to instill pure hate for the game isn't the brightest idea for it.

 

[HdTyvek]

a little bit, every time i see or read something negative about the game it makes me a little sad.

then i go and watch someone playing the game and the hype comes back, just gotta not let other peoples opinions effect your own, not everyone likes the same stuff!

 

[BlackAcidX]

Even after whole leak incident, and the bashing the game keeps getting from insecure Melee fanboys(not all mind you), I'm still quite hyped about the game. Maybe not as hyped as I was before, now knowing what the full roster is and the characters I hoped for are not in or possibly changed up(Ganondorf D, but I am interested in the features of the game that are in it. Custom move sets just sounds like a new game changer for the meta, and overall just fun.

I am still excited for the WiiU version of the game, hoping for a exclusive feature like Smash Run for the 3DS, and just can't wait to see our first HD Smash! It's going to be looooong nights with my buds playing this, and I don't need competitive naysayers sapping away the good vibes this game is giving. I don't even need to play it to know it's going to be a fun, addictive, fantastic game. If someone doesn't like a character, they don't have to play them, easy as that lol.

 

[TryHardOliver]

Well it really bothers people they can always just avoid it (no matter how hard it is) and I do think it can ruin hype considering you'll know everything on the game. Like what fun is that?

 

[Gidy]

Vectoring is ruining Smash 4 for me.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Vectoring is ruining Smash 4 for me.

What is vectoring?

 

[Gidy]

What is vectoring?

Look in the 3DS Competitive Discussion. It's newly found tech that can make it so you can't combo people.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Look in the 3DS Competitive Discussion. It's newly found tech that can make it so you can't combo people.

oh no nope no Im staying away from that. I think the competitie side ruins smash....to a point because where is the fun D:

 

[Tristan_win]

What is vectoring?

The devil

It's like DI but instead of holding a direction like left or right so help improve your chance when set upwards you now hold down instead. By holding down when knock up you still received the same amount of hit stun but you fly less far, the opposite can be said if you hold up. By holding up can die faster...or escape combos. It also works with horizontal attacks as well, dying off the right, hold left, dying off the left, hold right, don't want to be combo then just hold away from your opponent.

This basically means all progress toward learning killing % and how much characters can combo in smash4 has been reset as all previous information was wrong due to poor VI.

Look in the 3DS Competitive Discussion. It's newly found tech that can make it so you can't combo people.

It's not a tech it's a basic game mechanic

 

[Gidy]

oh no nope no Im staying away from that. I think the competitie side ruins smash....to a point because where is the fun D:

Competitiveness only ruins Smash if a person is being a sore loser or the game just isn't fun. This is why, imo, competitiveness ruined Smash Bros Brawl.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

The devil

It's like DI but instead of holding a direction like left or right so help improve your chance when set upwards you now hold down instead. By holding down when knock up you still received the same amount of hit stun but you fly less far, the opposite can be said if you hold up. By holding up can die faster...or escape combos. It also works with horizontal attacks as well, dying off the right, hold left, dying off the left, hold right, don't want to be combo then just hold away from your opponent.

This basically means all progress toward learning killing % and how much characters can combo in smash4 has been reset as all previous information was wrong due to poor VI.




It's not a tech it's a basic game mechanic

Sounds like math.... and I hate math so very much

 

[mcnichoj]

Maybe I'm just lucky to already be playing the game and enjoying it so the hype doesn't really matter.
That said I think the millions of people that don't go on game forums that are buying this game eclipses the few hundred or thousand vocal butt hurt crybabies.

 

[CrimsonYoshi]

The pessimists are the people that made assumptions and then got let down by their own hand. I don't follow rumors, and the game style looks fresh and new (why does everyone care about SPEED and how fast you can kill? We have combos and other fun stuff). They wanted a game with 60-100 characters which is just overkill. I like clones a lot and they offer a new perspective on a favorite. People should just play a game instead of whining because Sakurai didn't add your obscure, boring character. I though Ridley would be a cool addition, but I think people only wanted Mewtwo because he was something we couldn't have. Was he really THAT cool and interesting, or just the guy who wasn't in Brawl? Lucas was my Brawl main and I'm not whining. Sorry for being so jumbled, I'm making this on the fly. All I'm saying is they're only disappointed because they set themselves to it. 51 characters. Custom moves. Miis. Portable Smash. Don't be whinin'.

 

[Tristan_win]

Sounds like math.... and I hate math so very much

.... ~sighs as he pats your head a few times~ We all hate math but when you play competitive you can't help but be force to do some. Thankfully it's all + and - or just remembering facts which the majority of the players do instead of math, unless you want to dive headlong into smash research then things can get complex but very few do that.

 

[Naoshi]

"Nobody complained about the clone filled roster, but with brawl, And now Smash 4, people are constantly being pessimistic,"

Haha, really? I thought plenty of people complained about clones in Melee. The idea that no one ever complained about clones in Melee is laughable. Only reason we don't see it so much is because the game is old and a lot of people have moved on from their disappointments. Melee came out when the internet was still young, so it was harder to find a vocal fanbase back then. Did this person forget that plenty wanted clones to be removed when Brawl was announced? That and people got disappointed when Ganondorf was a clone again.

 

[MagnesD3]

Brawl had clones?

 

[Naoshi]

Brawl had clones?

Toon Link and Ganondorf, yes. Falco and Wolf are more like Semi-Clones but I guess they don't count but that's aside the point. Point is, people like to pretend that Melee was never criticized back when it was first out.

The pessimists are the people that made assumptions and then got let down by their own hand. I don't follow rumors, and the game style looks fresh and new (why does everyone care about SPEED and how fast you can kill? We have combos and other fun stuff). They wanted a game with 60-100 characters which is just overkill. I like clones a lot and they offer a new perspective on a favorite. People should just play a game instead of whining because Sakurai didn't add your obscure, boring character. I though Ridley would be a cool addition, but I think people only wanted Mewtwo because he was something we couldn't have. Was he really THAT cool and interesting, or just the guy who wasn't in Brawl? Lucas was my Brawl main and I'm not whining. Sorry for being so jumbled, I'm making this on the fly. All I'm saying is they're only disappointed because they set themselves to it. 51 characters. Custom moves. Miis. Portable Smash. Don't be whinin'.

Everyone has their own thing they want to see in Smash Bros. Let's not go lumping every single pessimist as wanting every single vocal thing. I don't want a 60-100 character roster, but I want good speed (which SSB4 thankfully provided) and Mewtwo. I also don't mind clones, as long as they're interesting.

And believe it or not, Mewtwo is a popular Pokemon, so is it a surprise people want him back?

I admit, I was pretty pessimist about the game for a while, but that's mainly due to concerns like how sloppy the 3DS stage roster was and the removal of some of my favorite modes (hoping they get on Wii U) along with some character cuts.

I'll enjoy the game, I've been addicted to the demo, but there's nothing wrong being pessimist, just as long as you keep yourself level headed and have realistic expectations. I admit some people can be overly negative, something that should be ironed out. Especially those that ends up having a melt down and swear every 2 words in their posts. But people still have the rights to express their opinions, as long as it's level headed and well thought out. There's a difference.

 

[Mythra]

It just ruins the hype for those being convinced by the pessimists, like yesterday during the vectoring discussion, the "Oh no Smash is ruined" comments started to appear without a good base to explain that argument. Its better to ignore that, your own conclusions are the ones that matter when you do a point of view, also theres a lot of positive hype over there; the good things that this game has to offer eventually will overcome the bad vibes.

 

[MagnesD3]

Toon Link and Ganondorf, yes. Falco and Wolf are more like Semi-Clones but I guess they don't count but that's aside the point. Point is, people like to pretend that Melee was never criticized back when it was first out.



Everyone has their own thing they want to see in Smash Bros. Let's not go lumping every single pessismist as wanting every single vocal thing. I don't want a 60-100 character roster, but I want good speed (which SSB4 thankfully provided) and Mewtwo. I also don't mind clones, as long as they're interesting.

And believe it or not, Mewtwo is a popular Pokemon, so is it a surprise people want him back?

Toon Link yes I agree ( interestingly he is now a semi clone) Ganon was a semi clone since half of his normals were unique, falco, Lucas and wolf are more of a quarter clone than anything (but let's be honest at this percentage they are just unique characters.)

 

[TTTTTsd]

I think what really kills the hype is people that think Vectoring kills low % combos or ALL True combos because they didn't read the thread where it's clear that it scales with % and knockback. For those saying vectoring makes comboing impossible, please do yourself a favor and educate yourself on how it works. Low % combos and strings(to an extent) do work, and if someone vectors and the KB is low, you can chase and follow up pretty damn easily.

the REAL problem with vectoring is the survival rate. The combos are not the large part of this.

Beyond that, no I don't usually let pessimism get to me, especially when it comes to mechanics that people haven't even fully explored yet.

 

[Naoshi]

Toon Link yes I agree ( interestingly he is now a semi clone) Ganon was a semi clone since half of his normals were unique, falco, Lucas and wolf are more of a quarter clone than anything (but let's be honest at this percentage they are just unique characters.)

Depends on what defines a Semi-Clone to you then. Semi-Clone to me just means a clone with many differences but still share a lot of similar concepts. Wolf and Falco shares the same Final Smash as Fox, and their B moves are very similar, with noticeable differences yeah. However, I am not saying this as a bad thing. I love their inclusions, (outside of the Final Smash), and was sad to see Wolf cut.

But really, I don't know why we feel the need to stray so far from my original point. All I'm saying is that people claiming that Melee never had complaints about clones is absolutely false. This honestly didn't have much to do with the Brawl clones to begin with (other than people wishing Brawl to not have any clones during the hype, to point out as an example of Melee actually getting criticism for clones).

 

[Accelerator]

I personally hope the tourney scene for this game never takes off. From the get go, the majority of the fan base has tolerated absolutely no criticism of the game, eating whatever Sakurai poops out.

I'm not even really worried about it's potential effects on already existing Smash scenes either. The Brawl fan base, who will be migrating to this game have little to no community leaders. Smash4 fans will probably be relying on Primarily run Melee tournaments to host them, but that won't be possible since Project M has taken that spot already.

Couple that with the fact that the Brawl fan base folds under minor adversity, and you have a flimsy base for the scene as a start up from the get go.

The logistics of running Smash4 tournaments are laughable, too.

 

[MagnesD3]

Depends on what defines a Semi-Clone to you then. Semi-Clone to me just means a clone with many differences but still share a lot of similar concepts. Wolf and Falco shares the same Final Smash as Fox, and their B moves are very similar, with noticeable differences yeah. However, I am not saying this as a bad thing. I love their inclusions, (outside of the Final Smash), and was sad to see Wolf cut.

But really, I don't know why we feel the need to stray so far from my original point. All I'm saying is that people claiming that Melee never had complaints about clones is absolutely false. This honestly didn't have much to do with the Brawl clones to begin with (other than people wishing Brawl to not have any clones during the hype, to point out as an example of Melee actually getting criticism for clones).

To break it down

Wolf is 17% a clone. Lucas is 29% a clone. Falco is 35% a clone. Ganon is 52% a clone.

(I don't include final smashes since they are an item and don't really matter.)

Tink was the only true clone being 88% clone.

 

[Lord Goomy]

I personally hope the tourney scene for this game never takes off. From the get go, the majority of the fan base has tolerated absolutely no criticism of the game, eating whatever Sakurai poops out.

I'm not even really worried about it's potential effects on already existing Smash scenes either. The Brawl fan base, who will be migrating to this game have little to no community leaders. Smash4 fans will probably be relying on Primarily run Melee tournaments to host them, but that won't be possible since Project M has taken that spot already.

Couple that with the fact that the Brawl fan base folds under minor adversity, and you have a flimsy base for the scene as a start up from the get go.

The logistics of running Smash4 tournaments are laughable, too.

Why exactly do you say that the logistics are laughable? Just curious about your reasoning.

 

[TTTTTsd]

Don't take the bait man, just leave it.

As far as criticism of this game goes though, my real only problem has been blast zones. VI isn't too prevalent at low %s where my combos matter a lot more than getting someone offstage, but beyond that there's a lot of stupid stuff arising from the misconception that VI is more effective than it actually is.

 

[Luwafer]

Up until recently, it did indeed feel like the pessimism was sort of ruining the hype. However, thanks to the demo and Japanese release, there seems to be a surprising but pleasant amount of optimism surrounding the game.

 

[Naoshi]

To break it down

Wolf is 17% a clone. Lucas is 29% a clone. Falco is 35% a clone. Ganon is 52% a clone.

(I don't include final smashes since they are an item and don't really matter.)

(Fair point about the Final Smash, although I consider it a matter to me since it is a moveset thing. But I see where you're coming from)

Yeah, Wolf is the least clone of them all, that much is very true. Does it count more as a Luigification?

I personally hope the tourney scene for this game never takes off. From the get go, the majority of the fan base has tolerated absolutely no criticism of the game, eating whatever Sakurai poops out.

I agree that a lot of people refuse to accept any kind of criticism, which is why I sometimes feel afraid of expressing my opinions. Thankfully I never got hounded on for doing so, but seeing others getting ganged up and having the words "TROLL" thrown around from the blatant fanboyism just feels plain off-putting.

However, I would LOVE to see the tourney scene take off. I want to see where it ends up going. I feel this game might have great potential. I don't wish for it to replace the Melee scene though.