Is Sonic Mid-tier material? Is he better than Bowser again? (Read the OP)

[Lightning93]

How would Sonic have a better off-stage game? Spring-spikes, aren't nearly as effective as shine spikes... and our B-air's are practically the same... with the difference being your's is somewhat easier to land yet our's kills somewhat better. Does Sonic have other options too?

Also, Fox is a more punishing-based character, so our defense works as our offense at times. Fox's shieldgrab works very well, and so can his shine. Fox has a good defense if the opponent is within grab-range, but it terms of "run away", Sonic has him beat.

 

[Boxob.]

No, he's not.

 

[Llumys]

Definitely not.

Little fancy tricks don't make a character good.

 

[Browny]

and neither does getting CG'd/combo'd into oblivion by a variety of characters.

both characters suck. question is who sucks less

 

[Lightning93]

Shiek and IC are the only two characters Fox needs to really worry about. Otherwise he is a great character.

Of course, if the Pika you are playing is a complete douche, then you're in trouble. But even still you can wait for him to approach and punish everything.

 

[Browny]

(Fox) is a great character.

Maybe I didn't make myself clear

30 Fox (8 top8, 2 top4) - 10.9 - 20

both characters suck. Its up to Fox players to prove he is 'great'

 

[Lightning93]

Way to use tourney results as proof. Most people say Sonic is a worse character than Fox, although he has better placings.

Fox has an extreme learning curve, and unfortunately we don't get much rep out there from the people who really know how to use him. Sonic does, end of story.

Plz stop trolling kxthxbai.

 

[Chis]

We know how bad they are, we're talking about who's better >_>

Sonic's dair can semi spike but it's rather hard to use, so it's rarely done. I would think Sonic's recovery would give him more freedom to gimp offstage though. Also the thing about millions of Sonic's entering tourneys is a groundless assumption so yeah.

 

[Lightning93]

Well, the point is this thread is about who has a better metagame overall. Not about why these characters supposedly suck.

After gimping, rising Fair gives Fox bout 1/2-3/4 height of Sonic's spirng, and then we can use Firefox or Illusion...

And all I was saying is that Sonic gets more GOOD rep in tournies than Fox does, that's all.

 

[KirbyandSonicrock14]

In my opinion Sonic has things Fox needs to be good, and Fox has things Sonic needs to be good. In others words guys, it's very hard to say who's better in my opinion.

 

[da K.I.D.]

How would Sonic have a better off-stage game? Spring-spikes, aren't nearly as effective as shine spikes... and our B-air's are practically the same... with the difference being your's is somewhat easier to land yet our's kills somewhat better. Does Sonic have other options too?

I like how you tell me what my character is capable of, and than go on to admit you dont know anything about him...
Sonic >>> Fox offstage by a wide margin. this is because sonics aerial mobility is far superior, and theres also the fact that he doesnt fall like a brick, and the fact that fox has 3 very risky ways to gimp people, bair, dair and shine. and sonic has double digit numbers of options that are many many times safer. see as just about anymove he has offstage can be used to gimp.

Also, Fox is a more punishing-based character, so our defense works as our offense at times. Fox's shieldgrab works very well, and so can his shine. Fox has a good defense if the opponent is within grab-range, but it terms of "run away", Sonic has him beat.

im upset that you are using shield grabs as an argument for foxs defensive abilities. avoiding shield grabs is one of the first skills you learn in this game when you play competitively. and shine is rather bad as a defensive move, when fox is getting hit or juggled he really doesnt have many options to get away other than airdodge, and wasting his double jump.

Shiek and IC are the only two characters Fox needs to really worry about. Otherwise he is a great character.

Of course, if the Pika you are playing is a complete douche, then you're in trouble. But even still you can wait for him to approach and punish everything.

pikachu approaches?
MK also ***** fox pretty badly.
yes, fox has few matchups that **** him, but his matchups are very mediocre since he really doesnt beat anybody worthwhile, even tho he kinda goes almost even with snake falco, ddd, marth, and diddy, among others.

Way to use tourney results as proof. Most people say Sonic is a worse character than Fox, although he has better placings.

Fox has an extreme learning curve, and unfortunately we don't get much rep out there from the people who really know how to use him. Sonic does, end of story.

I call MASSIVE BS on that garbage. i play fox and he is by no means a hard character to learn.
and who the hell is "most people"? maybe if you chill in the fox boards, of course the majority of people you see are going to be saying that fox is better, but just throwing out, most people say _____" is meaningless since you have no proof for that.

Well, the point is this thread is about who has a better metagame overall. Not about why these characters supposedly suck.

The two are not mutually exclusive, they both kinda play into each other

After gimping, rising Fair gives Fox bout 1/2-3/4 height of Sonic's spirng, and then we can use Firefox or Illusion...

like i said before, fox still has horrible air acceleration (2nd worst in the game behind ddd as i recall) and he still falls like a wet sack of potatoes. his aerial abilities help him to recover, but they dont in any way make him a good gimper, because he has very few options to do it, they can be reversed back onto him because of how fast he falls, and he doesnt even have the mobility to more than a rolls distance off the stage to even attempt his gimps.

Where as sonic has a crap ton of gimping options, he can recover from almost anywhere even if he misses, and he can go all the way out to the stage boundarys to get the job done. ive actually killed people with the weak hit of the nair, at under 100% because I was that far offstage lol

In my opinion Sonic has things Fox needs to be good, and Fox has things Sonic needs to be good. In others guys, it's very hard to say who's better in my opinion.

This is very true, and it makes it hard for me to determine too, except for this one smal factor

And all I was saying is that Sonic gets more GOOD rep in tournies than Fox does, that's all.

maybe thats because Sonic is the better character... did you ever think of that?
the argument was tied in my mind, right up until that statement was said. because any time some body uses this terrible argument to defend their character, it feels to me like an admission of their character being worse

 

[Umby]

Kid said everything I would have said except the part about Sonic being better.

More people play Sonic because (admit it) most of the Sonic mains are Sonic fanboys. If you were just introduced to Brawl and compared Fox gameplay to Sonic, Fox definitely looks better from first glance. It takes time to learn all the crazy **** that Sonic does, and the determination for learning/practicing all that comes partially from fanboyism as well as how cool we look in our videos.

If I had to guess, I'd say the problem in Fox's rep lies in the overhype of Sheik/Pikachu 0-deaths and ZSS chainstun and his more straightforward style of play. Fox generally has things he can do to be effective, but that's all he can do. People start expecting him to do things and counter appropriately. All he can do is mix up the timing. With Sonic, you have tons of options in any given situation/point in time AND you can mix up the timing. This let's Sonic adapt better, and can throw other players for a loop, making him look a lot better in tournament.

So I guess I've shifted my opinion to say that as a base character Fox is overall better. What he does, when it hits, is more effective than what Sonic does. However, Sonic can adapt better and change his playstyle easier, giving him a generally more advantageous situation in tournament.

 

[Kinzer]

The only thing I may outright agree with KID:

Is WTF at the learning curve.

I dunno if it is Brawl being so simple or after playing Sonic for so long most any character seems basic (I'm rather reluctant to say I'm a NL in-training), but I love the fact how Fox is a B&B character who is somewhat good when in the right hands, and not in the wrong place at the wrong time.

It's a nice change of pace whenever I don't want to wear out my Sonic.

 

[Fenrir VII]

I like how you tell me what my character is capable of, and than go on to admit you dont know anything about him...
Sonic >>> Fox offstage by a wide margin. this is because sonics aerial mobility is far superior, and theres also the fact that he doesnt fall like a brick, and the fact that fox has 3 very risky ways to gimp people, bair, dair and shine. and sonic has double digit numbers of options that are many many times safer. see as just about anymove he has offstage can be used to gimp.

Agreed that Sonic is overall in a better place than Fox when in an offstage gimping situation...

But in some matchups, Fox's rising dair is better than Sonic's options.

Fox really shouldn't be off stage to gimp all THAT much... there are certain good scenarios where he should be, but mainly, Fox wants to play with edgehogs and punishing landing lag with smashes...

im upset that you are using shield grabs as an argument for foxs defensive abilities. avoiding shield grabs is one of the first skills you learn in this game when you play competitively. and shine is rather bad as a defensive move, when fox is getting hit or juggled he really doesnt have many options to get away other than airdodge, and wasting his double jump.

Fox's sliding shield is one of the best in the game in terms of distance traveled... and that coupled with his decent grab distance would make shield grabbing a bit better than you're thinking. I'm assuming this is what Light meant.

Shine is good when getting juggled if simply because it can throw off timings... Airdodge to the ground is slightly more effective in some circumstances because of his fall speed... and after a double jump, he has decent moves to reset spacing... Fox is actually better when playing defensively than offensively... so I am confused about the recent "Fox's defense sucks" wave I see in here... I'm assuming this is based on the CGs and locks... but still...

pikachu approaches?
MK also ***** fox pretty badly.
yes, fox has few matchups that **** him, but his matchups are very mediocre since he really doesnt beat anybody worthwhile, even tho he kinda goes almost even with snake falco, ddd, marth, and diddy, among others.

lol you were making sense until the MK comment... no. no he doesn't. haha. where'd that come from?

Fox is somewhere between 6-4 and 4-6 against most of the high characters in the game... MK, DDD, Snake, Diddy, Falco, Marth, Wario, GW (arguably), Kirby, etc etc

and I can't really name another mid to low tier character that can say that.

I call MASSIVE BS on that garbage. i play fox and he is by no means a hard character to learn.
and who the hell is "most people"? maybe if you chill in the fox boards, of course the majority of people you see are going to be saying that fox is better, but just throwing out, most people say _____" is meaningless since you have no proof for that.

Fox is a hard character to get past the "lol dair is ****" mindset... I mean, in the strictest sense, no character is hard to play and learn... just pick them on the selection screen and play a few matches.. But again, Fox is a hard character to play WELL... This comment has nothing to do with Sonic, who I also feel is hard to play well.... I just think most people can have a mediocre Fox, and fewer than 10 players have actually managed to get above that.

like i said before, fox still has horrible air acceleration (2nd worst in the game behind ddd as i recall) and he still falls like a wet sack of potatoes. his aerial abilities help him to recover, but they dont in any way make him a good gimper, because he has very few options to do it, they can be reversed back onto him because of how fast he falls, and he doesnt even have the mobility to more than a rolls distance off the stage to even attempt his gimps.

Where as sonic has a crap ton of gimping options, he can recover from almost anywhere even if he misses, and he can go all the way out to the stage boundarys to get the job done. ive actually killed people with the weak hit of the nair, at under 100% because I was that far offstage lol

Again Sonic is better suited for chasing characters off stage... that's true, but that's not how Fox should be playing. Rising Dair is a very good tool to cover options of the ledge, and onto the stage. It is incredible against Falco, Wolf, and other characters with largely horizontal recoveries... The two are very different in terms of edgeguarding, though, so comparing them is a bit difficult...

This is very true, and it makes it hard for me to determine too, except for this one smal factor
maybe thats because Sonic is the better character... did you ever think of that?
the argument was tied in my mind, right up until that statement was said. because any time some body uses this terrible argument to defend their character, it feels to me like an admission of their character being worse

There are more noteworthy Sonic players than there are Foxes... that's it. I don't really see how that can be argued... or that the appeal for the character is MUCH greater than Fox's appeal...

Again, everybody was excited for Sonic being in Brawl, and that carries on today... Sonic has a huge Sonic fanboy base, and that's something that Fox doesn't... at least not in the US.

And Fox's bad matchups were hugely promoted in the first few months of Brawl... even when they were false... and made players generally not want to play him as a character.

I mean, more Sonics = more tournament viable Sonics = better placings. This is simple. I'm not saying that there's not truth behind the tournament results (although I'm not sure why certain Fox's 1st placers weren't recorded), I'm saying that it's logical sense good Sonic players outnumber good Fox players by about 5-fold at least.


And just to clarify something, the only character that has anything like a 0-death on Fox is the ICs...

Pikachu has a 0-90ish cg on him, but then has to land a couple hits, and then a legit kill move sometime after, which he actually has a bit of trouble doing... (the difficulty he has in getting a grab and killing really make it a fairer match than everybody thinks... still bad, but not insta-win)

Sheik has a 30ish-90ish ftilt lock that ends in an usmash, but again, the usmash won't usually kill (bit stage dependent), and Sheik still has to land a kill move, again, somewhat difficult for her.

ICs have that 0-death, as they do on almost every character

ZSS has the dsmash chain, but its impracticality has pretty much removed her from anything worse than 6-4 for him... and perhaps his advantage if she didn't have it.

This is the kind of bad reputation I spoke of... none of those things are as terrible (save the ICs) as their reputation has led some to believe... and as a result, Fox's popularity is pretty lacking.

 

[Camalange]

Fox has an extreme learning curve, and unfortunately we don't get much rep out there from the people who really know how to use him. Sonic does, end of story.

Plz stop trolling kxthxbai.

This thread is always good for lulz.


Both of our characters are trash. And ya know what? Based on what you guys are saying, Sonic mains are apparently leagues better than you (Fox players) and cooler (admitting Sonic is more appealing) since we can place twice as high with equally bad characters.


I also cosign to KID since he knows a lot about both characters and uses them both in tourney.

 

[Fenrir VII]

Both of our characters are trash. And ya know what? Based on what you guys are saying, Sonic mains are apparently leagues better than you (Fox players) and cooler (admitting Sonic is more appealing) since we can place twice as high with equally bad characters.

I mean, more Sonics = more tournament viable Sonics = better placings. This is simple. I'm not saying that there's not truth behind the tournament results (although I'm not sure why certain Fox's 1st placers weren't recorded), I'm saying that it's logical sense good Sonic players outnumber good Fox players by about 5-fold at least.

I actually responded to what you said before you said it... and there are Fox placings that are not reflected in that list you guys put up. I'm really not sure of the rules of that particular listing, but that's true

As for Sonic mains being cooler... well, flocking to the general idea that EVERYBODY jumped on as soon as Brawl came out vs. sticking with an oft overlooked character, even in the face of "impossible" matchups... you be the judge. : )

 

[da K.I.D.]

you do realise that almost two years into the game there really isnt THAT many sonic players that place in tourney. about as many as peach, id say. and the sonic mains that do place, espy, speed, shugo, arent even as good at the game i think as the people that play peach, (dark, KOS, llod, prax, to name a few.)

basically the fact that everyone and their momma played sonic when they came out actually works against our arguments the majority of the time. Because everytime we try to tell people that our character is good, we get some thing long the lines of:

"Sonic is terrible, I played with him for like 3 matches. I killed myself once every game and I spend the whole match getting outprioritised by (insert move here)." all those people that played him in the beginning dropped off and took the idea that he sucks.

Not to mention that fox has his bad matchups clearly defined, where as even now sonic mains cant get our matchups straight because every single sonic main thinks that a different character is our worst matchup.

soooooo whats worse; to have a character that nobody pays attention to with 3-4 terrible matchups, or a character that EVERY one played, and assumed sucks who has like a quarter of the cast as his worst matchup?

 

[Lightning93]

I don't know what you guys are arguing over here, Fenrir was able to put the words in my mouth much better than what originally came out, so if you flame me please refer to his explanation.

Both of our characters are trash. And ya know what? Based on what you guys are saying, Sonic mains are apparently leagues better than you (Fox players) and cooler (admitting Sonic is more appealing) since we can place twice as high with equally bad characters.

Um... sure, I'll agree if only to stop uneccesary debate. If you didn't read what Fenrir said about Fox's learning curve then I'm afraid you're lost. I'll admit that most likely the average Sonic main is better off at a tourney than the average Fox main, and that's why I am saying you guys most likely have better results. However I am not using this as an excuse to say Sonic is worse than Fox, just to explain tourney results.

And no, from this specific thread I saw the majority of people saying Fox was a better character than Sonic, please don't turn my simple statements into ones of bias and hate. All I was actually doing was reitarating what was already said, and asking more questions.

Thanks.

 

[da K.I.D.]

my bad, synch and a few others were saying that.

I still feel that if sonic is better off in a tourney situation than fox than that makes him a better character. I understand your statement, although I dont agree

 

[Fenrir VII]

I'll admit that most likely the average Sonic main is better off at a tourney than the average Fox main, and that's why I am saying you guys most likely have better results.

I still feel that if sonic is better off in a tourney situation than fox than that makes him a better character. I understand your statement, although I dont agree

The difference in quotes is the word "main". I don't feel that Light is actually talking about the characters, but the players.

I honestly feel that average skill level of a Sonic main is higher than the average skill level of a Fox main.

Let's be serious, there are a whole bunch of really terrible Fox players out there... and literally only around 5 that I could name as doing anywhere near how Fox is capable of doing.

so yeah, I feel that the average Sonic main will be a bit better off in tournament, simply because the average Fox main sucks... and sucking with a non-high tier character never goes well...

but all that said, the results thread from where that data came... what are the rules to signify a worthy tournament?

I've personally had placings such as 5th, 7th and 9th... Zeton has gotten his share of 1st and other top ten placings.. Fzero got a whole bunch of good placings in weeklies... included 2nds and under 5ths... A6M won a couple tournaments. Rookie won one, and got top ten in a number of others... etc etc. I could honestly go on, but you get the point...

I'm not really sure what all tournaments that list is tracking, but I feel that none of the placings I just listed are taken into consideration for it. *shrug

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

Ankoku's thread lists every tournament that is posted. I suggest you start posting results if you don't think they're being added.

 

[Kinzer]

Not EVERY tourney.

Or at least none from me da****, but that's only because it's local, with quite a low tournout.

 

[da K.I.D.]

Just correcting some things...

I honestly feel that average skill level of a Sonic main is higher than the average skill level of a Fox main.

How do you even go about validating a statement like that? its physically impossible to prove

Let's be serious, there are a whole bunch of really terrible Fox players out there... and literally only around 5 that I could name as doing anywhere near how Fox is capable of doing.

theres really not many more than 10 sonics that are really really doing well. the discrepancy of characters really isnt as lop sided as you think. and we all know we have more than a fair share of scrubby sonics out there filling up the pots for multiple tourneys, all over the place. But either way, what scrubs do really has nothing to do with this thread

so yeah, I feel that the average Sonic main will be a bit better off in tournament, simply because the average Fox main sucks... and sucking with a non-high tier character never goes well...

I think the average sonic main will be better off in tourney, because the average sonic main will be playing the better character.

but all that said, the results thread from where that data came... what are the rules to signify a worthy tournament?

entry fee of at least a dollar, and 13 attendees.

I've personally had placings such as 5th, 7th and 9th... Zeton has gotten his share of 1st and other top ten placings.. Fzero got a whole bunch of good placings in weeklies... included 2nds and under 5ths... A6M won a couple tournaments. Rookie won one, and got top ten in a number of others... etc etc. I could honestly go on, but you get the point...

there really isnt all that many sonic mains getting major results these days. shugo does really well in ohio and the MW dispite the fact that he only rarely goes to tourneys. IThrowThings is still pulling top 5s consistently. Espy did terrible at his last tourney, and he only has monthlies to go to. Camalange's placings are only slightly better than mediocre, and almost everyone else has switched characters.

 

[Zhamy]

I don't understand what this bickering about tournaments is going to solve. You can't prove that more tournament results directly equals a better character, if you guys are going to be as strict about it as you have been. Tournament results might as well be anecdotal evidence.

So again - the only reason you could claim Sonic to be a better character than Fox is because of Fox's troublesome matchups with Pikachu, Sheik, and the Ice Climbers.

The burden of proof is on you guys to show what aspects of Sonic make him a better character than Fox, and the way you're using tournament results? It's not cutting it.

 

[Browny]

The burden of proof is on you guys to show what aspects of Sonic make him a better character than Fox, and the way you're using tournament results? It's not cutting it.

ugh...

i had a big reply lined up but i just cant post it without being mean.

Nothing you guys have provided 'cut it' more than Sonic's tourney results have. If anyone, the burden lies more on you guys.

 

[bobson]

Every single time I've come into this thread there's been someone trying to argue that Sonic only has high placings because there are so many Sonic mains in tourneys.

It's starting to amuse me quite a bit.

 

[Zhamy]

ugh...

i had a big reply lined up but i just cant post it without being mean.

Nothing you guys have provided 'cut it' more than Sonic's tourney results have. If anyone, the burden lies more on you guys.

You can go ahead and be mean, but I think you'd be wasting your time unless you're proving your point.
Quick lesson on burden of proof: "The necessity of proof always lies with the person who lays charges."

 

[da K.I.D.]

fox mains are laying the charge that Fox is the better character.

(Some) Sonic mains are laying the charge that sonic is the better character.

Sounds to me like its up to both sides to prove their point.

 

[Zhamy]

Which is incorrect, since Fox mains are just denying that your board's original claim of Sonic being a better character is true. Derp.

And even assuming that you're right, who laid the charge first?

Derp.

 

[da K.I.D.]

Nobody laid a charge originally.

Read the name of the thread.

Is Sonic better than Fox?

it doesnt make a statement either way, which means each side has to give proof to back their opinion

 

[4nace]

Sonic and Fox are so different but they're current abilities end up making the characters almost identical on a tier list. It's crazy.

Fox:
+ Combos into Kills making KOs not a huge problem
+ Fast projectile that can be done with short hops to be lagless
+ Good run speed. Amazing boost pivot grab. In general good movement.
+ Good gimp game with Shine and down air.

* Tough learning curve to become tourney viable

- Gets chain-grabbed / chain-comboed to make some match-ups unwinnable
- Attacks are not defensive and has few safe mixups.
- Predictable Recovery options

Sonic:
+ Great mixups allowing both offensive and defensive playstyle.
+ Good dash speed, walk speed, and vertical jump speed (with spring too). Good movement in general.
+ Great Recovery options to remain unpredictable
+ No hard counters / unwinnable match-ups

* Tough learning curve as well to become tourney viable.

- Few reliable kill options
- No projectile to easily counter camping (but he can counter camping with speed)
- Forces players to mix-up their approaches or they will easily be punished



Well, after adding just a few of the plus/minuses for these two. I have come to the conclusion that if they were combined into one character, they would be top tier haha.

 

[Orange_Soda_Man]

My 2c: Tourney Results are factored in when the tier list is made, right? So what is it that makes them off limits here again?

This thread was initially designed to put Sonic in the spot on the tier list that is most accurate/deserving of him; therein, implying that comparing tournament results would take place here, as a factor as equal as any other in determining tier list positions.

That's what I thought this thread was for, anyways.

 

[Tenki]

My 2c: Tourney Results are factored in when the tier list is made, right? So what is it that makes them off limits here again?

Because tourney results are lacking
and there are a lack of high level fox players
liek there are a lack of high level PT players (or Reflex clones)
so PT will continue to be low tier.

and Fox will continue to be seen as worse than Sonic (in this thread).

-----------
but seriously, I think determining which character is better really goes down to what has been seen in high level play.

This doesn't necessarily mean that tourney results are the end-all, since there's always the chance of winning small (or even mid-size/large) tourneys with low skill, but tourney results that matter - with skilled players on both ends.

Usually, things like eyewitnesses and videos of said players showcase what kind of things the character can pull off.

Then again, there's still the chance that (especially in Brawl), what leads to the win in high level play might just be stronger basics (when to attack and such) moreso than it is the characters' traits (mobility/priority/walls, etc).

Generally, Fox and other character mains will bring up points about their character strengths, and Sonic mains bring up stuff about how his bit of mobility and feinting options are more useful in an actual match environment than pure character traits.

so tl;dr:
- Tourney results don't always prove anything. High level play is more important.
- High level play is important, but (in determining which char is better), make sure the high level play is actually using said character's abilities, not just the player's ability to read opponent habits lol.

I mean, doesn't anyone remember when Sonic was bottom 5?
Results didn't matter - it was who you were beating that counted and gaining rep from showing them that Sonic's metagame was not roll-to-the-edge-and-spindash, and U-throw>U-air (LOL @ the Fox discussion for the Sonic matchup, jussayin) and that jab=autowin (everyone knows it's D-tilt now).

 

[Fenrir VII]

(LOL @ the Fox discussion for the Sonic matchup, jussayin) and that jab=autowin (everyone knows it's D-tilt now).

Oh whoa whoa... yeah that thread is incredibly old and dead...


Really none of the matchups in the thread are all that accurate, and most of them haven't been rediscussed for quite a while...including the Sonic one.

Yeah please don't use that to judge us. x.x

 

[ShadowLink84]

oh Whoa Whoa... Yeah That Thread Is Incredibly Old And Dead...


Really None Of The Matchups In The Thread Are All That Accurate, And Most Of Them Haven't Been Rediscussed For Quite A While...including The Sonic One.

Yeah Please Don't Use That To Judge Us. X.x

Its Too Late We're Judging You!
*sighs*
i wish I could got to tournaments again...

 

[Umby]

A more relevant question, Fenrir:


How is dguy? I haven't talked to him in ages. ._.

 

[Fenrir VII]

A more relevant question, Fenrir:


How is dguy? I haven't talked to him in ages. ._.

Actually, neither have I... I really don't know what's up with that guy.

He was really enjoying Brawl, but quit mainly because of the community down here (which, I admit they're kinda ridiculous sometimes). He went back to playing Melee, then, as far as I know, just quit playing completely.

: / He was shaping up to be one of the best Lucarios, too... sad day.

 

[chaoechidna]

Sonic and Fox both have amazing bairs!!!!

I'm starting to think that Fox isn't all that much better, but that him and sonic are on almost equal grounds when it comes to being characters. Both have their faults, both are harder to use due to said faults, both have a hard time winning. We gotta do some kinda "Deadliest Warrior" type thing with these two characters, put them in scenarios and add up their strengths and weaknesses like we've been doing. But we gotta do the ending thing too; make em fight in a simulation. Someone submit this idea to Spike TV. Best episode ever.

 

[Lightning93]

Fox doesn't have a hard time winning at all for the majority of his matchups, but there are a few that are pretty ridiculous.

Sonic may have to work harder overall, but it seems the fact that nothing can shut him down sort of balances this out.

I can't call which one is better.

Deadliest warrior sounds boss though, although that kind of pits them against each other and doesn't judge them overall as fighters.

 

[chaoechidna]

Crap, you're right... Deadliest W wouldn't work. And i'm trying to get back into fox, i think ive missed a lot of metagame/strategies, esp if a lot of his matches are easier now. I really just gotta get better with him, i think i'm doing too much wrong. Light man, i think it was your combo vid that made me pick up fox in the first place! You and monkey, dude, i loved those vids..

Man, this character call seems a lot harder than the others... They really are pretty even.