• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Is Zelda Really Bad?

Is Zelda a bad character?

  • Heck yes she sucks

    Votes: 22 37.9%
  • Nope I mean she's not good but not bad

    Votes: 27 46.6%
  • No, she's good :)

    Votes: 9 15.5%

  • Total voters
    58

Dark_Knight_X1

Smash Cadet
Joined
Oct 25, 2015
Messages
36
Location
South Florida
Hello I am Dark_Knight_X1 a new user here. I'm kind of a noob to smash bros WiiU/3ds but I've had Brawl for two years so I'm like a slightly new average player. Now I know a lot though. I love to watch tournaments and my fav tournamenter is m2k.

Yeah, Zelda is pretty bad in Melee (According to Mew2king the 2nd worst :sheikmelee: > :zeldamelee:) but ZeRo says that she has some strengths in smash attacks and some ultimate fails in specials besides up B along other stuff in Sm4sh. Well, everything he has to say is here. But what do you think... there's no official Sm4sh tier list on the SSB wiki...
 
Last edited:

Valamway

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 4, 2015
Messages
166
Location
Northeast Ohio
NNID
i38VWi
Hbox thinks Zelda is higher than bottom 5 in Melee, but that doesn't really matter because anything lower than the top half of the cast is totally unviable in tournament.

Also, I feel like you didn't understand the point of that ZeRo video at all.
The only thing he said was that we can't say for sure who the worst character in the game is yet, but that Zelda possibly could be a contender for that spot once everything settled and is definitely a low-tier pick even now.
Anyone who puts Zelda higher than bottom 10 is delusional, and I'm the best Smasher in my hometown and the Zelda in my state.
 
Last edited:

Dark_Knight_X1

Smash Cadet
Joined
Oct 25, 2015
Messages
36
Location
South Florida
Hbox thinks Zelda is higher than bottom 5 in Melee, but that doesn't really matter because anything lower than the top half of the cast is totally unviable in tournament.

Also, I feel like you didn't understand the point of that ZeRo video at all.
The only thing he said was that we can't say for sure who the worst character in the game is yet, but that Zelda possibly could be a contender for that spot once everything settled and is definitely a low-tier pick even now.
Anyone who puts Zelda higher than bottom 10 is delusional, and I'm the best Smasher in my hometown and the Zelda in my state.
Yes I did understand. I'll edit it tho. I asked what did you think and I'm gonna edit that zero part. Also I think that M2k said that she was 25th was quite ironic because he took 12 stocks away from Mang0 at Smash the record as Zelda. Oh well, he's weird because he can do good with Pichu and said he was 19th, I think. Thank you for commenting
 

atreyujames

The Laziest Man in the North
Joined
Jun 30, 2015
Messages
409
NNID
Atreyujames
Zelda has a few good KO options, a passable Dthrow for combo's, a few good spacing tools, and some VERY strong aerials. That being said, She lacks the necessary frame data to make up for her crippling speed problem. Zelda is one of the slowest characters in the game, with a barely above average air speed being her only boon in movement speed options. Her fastest aerials do come out at an okay speed (frame 6), but ALL her aerials have a large amount of endlag and a sizable amount of landing lag. To top it off, she requires VERY good spacing with some of her aerials (I mean sweetspots that last for a single frame) otherwise she's doing Little Mac amounts of damage or knockback. With her specials she has an amazing kill move and recovery, a good general purpose tool, a passable proectile (if you ignore the limited use it has due to special fall in the air), and a very situational projectile.
All in all, Zelda is a character that requires alot of precision, but she lacks the effective tools to capitalize and instigate chances for her to properly use the tools she does have.

TLDR: High risk, Low reward
 

Suicidal_Donuts

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 10, 2015
Messages
654
Location
The Velvet Room
NNID
IfItIsntBryson
Zelda's issue is her character design. She was designed as half of a character, the power half. She can KO very early but relies on sweetspots. She's tall, light, floaty, and slow. Her mobility is pretty limited, along with her lagginess, making it very hard to land the sweetspots she needs. She has a great punish game if you can read your opponent well, or they really just screw up, but you aren't going to be able to punish much of anything, especially against the extremely safe top tiers.

Her long distance game is limited by a terrible projectile (Din's), and her mid range game revolves around the Phantom, which is only really useful when you use a wavebounce or B reverse. It does help a lot in giving closure though since it creates space between you and your opponent but could still use some help in the buffing department. At close range she relies heavily on the correct spacing to sweetspot for a kill, and her Jab is only a tad too slow to be really useful. Dtilt is her best option close up but there's only so much you can do with it. Utilt can start combos, and Ftilt can KO near the ledge at high percents.

Her Dsmash is very quick, but has limited range and power. Her Fsmash is great at catching opponents and the final hit has a nice disjoint. Her Usmash has terrible range except for the final, disjointed hit, but it at least has good power.

Fair and Bair need to be sweetspotted and are unsafe in any circumstance unless you connect the sweetspot. On shield, a sweetspotted Fair/Bair is mostly safe, but not entirely. It's good for an approach (for her) and does a lot of shield damage, but you'd need a lot of practice to really incorporate its uses well. Dair is a very good spike and easy to land, very safe, except on shield. Nair is a good combo move at lower mid percents, or a good move to be comboed into. It's lasting hitbox allows it to catch opponents easily, and drag them with her. Her Uair is powerful but hard to land because it's just a floating disjoint that's not attached to Zelda at all. Requires precision and a read to pull off because of this.

Nayru's Love can be used in many different situations, but is a bit too slow to be as useful as it should be. It's a great alternative to Dsmash, can be used when landing, shuts out grabs, alters aerial momentum, and reflects, it's just the frame data on it that makes it not as useful as it should be. At least it does decent damage. The perfect "get off me" tool. Farore's wind can be used to greatly improve Zelda's mobility but requires a ton of practice on many different stages to perfect the angles and positioning for such feats, otherwise you'll be punished for the gross end lag.

Her grab game is mediocre. Fthrow, Uthrow, and Bthrow all do decent knockback and damage, but none of them will KO unless you're as close as possible to the blast line. Her grab itself is also very slow, but to make up for this, has good reach. Her Dthrow is only okay compared to most the other Dthrows in the game, not always allowing a followup, relying on reads. Anyone can DI out of a followup by directing their input behind Zelda.

When you put all of this together, you just have a character that is limited by her design's execution. Several moves are too laggy to be able to compensate for her being so slow and relying on precision. She requires much dedication to see good results. It's the issue that her moves don't always give enough reward for how risky they can be. She does at least have a few safe moves and good pokes, and her moves all work properly. Many matchups only feel like slight disadvantage, but no matchup really feels like you're guaranteed going to win like some others. Her matchups feel unfavorable but not dramatically. If you're able to be on point with everything, you just might win, but if you're missing all your combos and sweetspots and punishes, then you'll be in for a bumpy road.

She has potential to be a good character, the developers just really need to buff her neutral and her General lagginess so that she can compensate and not always be at a disadvantage. The argument that she's great in FFA's is also not a very good one either as she still requires proper spacing for kills even in casual play (unless someone just walks into your Smash attack or you hit them with Farore's when they're not looking).

Just me rambling.
 

Lorde

Let 'em talk
Joined
Oct 20, 2014
Messages
4,479
Location
Ardnaxela
Switch FC
SW-6881-0865-5788
As she stands now, Zelda is trash. There are a few gorls on here that are on the optimistic side, but imo, their opinions are kind of baseless. Zelda's combo game is really meh, essentially every single move of hers is unsafe (aside from jab and maybe another move or two), and all of her kill moves are risky. Her terrible character design holds her prisoner in the bottom tier, and she's not getting out anytime soon unless they drastically revamp her moveset.
 

Zylach

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 11, 2012
Messages
652
Location
Madison, WI
NNID
Orienlithel
3DS FC
1934-1731-9287
Suicidal_Donuts Suicidal_Donuts has done a really good in-depth analysis. the long and short of it is this:

Zelda is a punish-focused character because she doesn't have the hitboxes or frame data to pressure and she doesn't have the setups to kill super reliably (Like a Fox for example). As a punish heavy character, she relies on the opponent to mispace and make mistakes. The problem is, she's too slow to actually reliably punish a lot of characters even for mediocre spacing. She doesn't have the disjoints necessary to challenge good spacing and doesn't have the speed/frame data to do a whole lot out of shield (especially after the patch). She's put in a a state of perpetual defense in most matchups giving the other player a lot of power to dictate the match pacing, stage control, etc.

I like the hyper-defensive nature of her playstyle but she really does need the tools to capitalize on good defense rather than just resetting to neutral or whiffing a punish and getting punished herself. She's not good but can be made good if her neutral actually existed.
 

Bee86

Smash Rookie
Joined
Oct 24, 2015
Messages
13
Location
vancouver
NNID
beebianchini
3DS FC
2294-5166-9137
Zelda's one of the more fun characters that I cycle through. Her moveset is incredibly unique in this game and that thunder kick is LEGIT
 

Dark_Knight_X1

Smash Cadet
Joined
Oct 25, 2015
Messages
36
Location
South Florida
Mmmm.. I thinkk she cute.
:D

Zelda has a few good KO options, a passable Dthrow for combo's, a few good spacing tools, and some VERY strong aerials. That being said, She lacks the necessary frame data to make up for her crippling speed problem. Zelda is one of the slowest characters in the game, with a barely above average air speed being her only boon in movement speed options. Her fastest aerials do come out at an okay speed (frame 6), but ALL her aerials have a large amount of endlag and a sizable amount of landing lag. To top it off, she requires VERY good spacing with some of her aerials (I mean sweetspots that last for a single frame) otherwise she's doing Little Mac amounts of damage or knockback. With her specials she has an amazing kill move and recovery, a good general purpose tool, a passable proectile (if you ignore the limited use it has due to special fall in the air), and a very situational projectile.
All in all, Zelda is a character that requires alot of precision, but she lacks the effective tools to capitalize and instigate chances for her to properly use the tools she does have.

TLDR: High risk, Low reward
Interesting...

Zelda's issue is her character design. She was designed as half of a character, the power half. She can KO very early but relies on sweetspots. She's tall, light, floaty, and slow. Her mobility is pretty limited, along with her lagginess, making it very hard to land the sweetspots she needs. She has a great punish game if you can read your opponent well, or they really just screw up, but you aren't going to be able to punish much of anything, especially against the extremely safe top tiers.

Her long distance game is limited by a terrible projectile (Din's), and her mid range game revolves around the Phantom, which is only really useful when you use a wavebounce or B reverse. It does help a lot in giving closure though since it creates space between you and your opponent but could still use some help in the buffing department. At close range she relies heavily on the correct spacing to sweetspot for a kill, and her Jab is only a tad too slow to be really useful. Dtilt is her best option close up but there's only so much you can do with it. Utilt can start combos, and Ftilt can KO near the ledge at high percents.

Her Dsmash is very quick, but has limited range and power. Her Fsmash is great at catching opponents and the final hit has a nice disjoint. Her Usmash has terrible range except for the final, disjointed hit, but it at least has good power.

Fair and Bair need to be sweetspotted and are unsafe in any circumstance unless you connect the sweetspot. On shield, a sweetspotted Fair/Bair is mostly safe, but not entirely. It's good for an approach (for her) and does a lot of shield damage, but you'd need a lot of practice to really incorporate its uses well. Dair is a very good spike and easy to land, very safe, except on shield. Nair is a good combo move at lower mid percents, or a good move to be comboed into. It's lasting hitbox allows it to catch opponents easily, and drag them with her. Her Uair is powerful but hard to land because it's just a floating disjoint that's not attached to Zelda at all. Requires precision and a read to pull off because of this.

Nayru's Love can be used in many different situations, but is a bit too slow to be as useful as it should be. It's a great alternative to Dsmash, can be used when landing, shuts out grabs, alters aerial momentum, and reflects, it's just the frame data on it that makes it not as useful as it should be. At least it does decent damage. The perfect "get off me" tool. Farore's wind can be used to greatly improve Zelda's mobility but requires a ton of practice on many different stages to perfect the angles and positioning for such feats, otherwise you'll be punished for the gross end lag.

Her grab game is mediocre. Fthrow, Uthrow, and Bthrow all do decent knockback and damage, but none of them will KO unless you're as close as possible to the blast line. Her grab itself is also very slow, but to make up for this, has good reach. Her Dthrow is only okay compared to most the other Dthrows in the game, not always allowing a followup, relying on reads. Anyone can DI out of a followup by directing their input behind Zelda.

When you put all of this together, you just have a character that is limited by her design's execution. Several moves are too laggy to be able to compensate for her being so slow and relying on precision. She requires much dedication to see good results. It's the issue that her moves don't always give enough reward for how risky they can be. She does at least have a few safe moves and good pokes, and her moves all work properly. Many matchups only feel like slight disadvantage, but no matchup really feels like you're guaranteed going to win like some others. Her matchups feel unfavorable but not dramatically. If you're able to be on point with everything, you just might win, but if you're missing all your combos and sweetspots and punishes, then you'll be in for a bumpy road.

She has potential to be a good character, the developers just really need to buff her neutral and her General lagginess so that she can compensate and not always be at a disadvantage. The argument that she's great in FFA's is also not a very good one either as she still requires proper spacing for kills even in casual play (unless someone just walks into your Smash attack or you hit them with Farore's when they're not looking).

Just me rambling.




Holy crap dude, you're like as wise as ZeRo. I agree with you, down b is laggy and is pretty much useless unless what you said
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Suicidal_Donuts

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 10, 2015
Messages
654
Location
The Velvet Room
NNID
IfItIsntBryson
Holy crap dude, you're like as wise as ZeRo. I agree with you, down b is laggy and is pretty much useless unless what you said
Hahahaha, I'm flattered, but I wouldn't say I'm as knowledgable as ZeRo. I'm more than likely more knowledgable than him on Zelda for sure, based on his recent Zelda video... Anyways, I definitely know Zelda inside and out though since I've stuck with her since Melee, and I know some other characters very well too. There are other very knowledgable Zeldas here too, I just took the time to go into depth on her. We're a pretty dedicated bunch, and there's no denying that.
 

ZombieBran

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 28, 2014
Messages
1,645
My opinion of her goes up and down. The sad thing is, the most optimistic I've been is "she's just bad."

I think she is really bad. ZeRo's video was mentioned here and I think it was pretty unhelpful but I like how he avoids the obvious question of "but who is worst off than Zelda?"
Even Samus might be better and look at the state of that.
 
Last edited:

Kealmir

Smash Cadet
Joined
Oct 16, 2015
Messages
46
Location
Alberta, Canada
I believe Ganon is worse at a competitive level, but Ganon has more to show in terms of tournament representation. When I play Ganon without customs I feel absolutely crippled against a good player, with even less approach options then Zelda. Ganon doesn't have the movement tech that made him "decent" in melee and stage list in this game does even less for him.

I believe it comes down strictly to how unpopular of a character she is atm, people have yet to explore with her as a competitive option and help advance her into the current meta game. Her off stage game is the best of all the characters I currently play and performs fantastic on platform stages with amazing shield drop options.

I have the luxury of playing against the most campy of friends in Smash 4 and alongside Roy's rush down, Zelda is the character I rely on for that match up.
 

Mooncake

Smash Rookie
Joined
Oct 27, 2015
Messages
18
Location
Your average asian bakery
NNID
Mooncakeee
I think she's not bad, BUT not good either. She's somewhere down there but I don't see her being the worst character in the game.

In Smash 4, tiers aren't as crucial as they were in Brawl. It was basically impossible to beat a top tier with a bottom tier character in Brawl. Now it isn't that shocking, I'd say just play who you want because there isn't any character that is unviable enough to win a tournament.
 

GreenApple

Smash Rookie
Joined
Oct 22, 2015
Messages
7
Not bad, but not good either.
People is just trying to play offensive with her (as she was Mario or Sheik).
The thing is you have to be patience and wait for the rival to take the iniciative. Zelda has a decent answer for every type of approach.
If you react well in neutral game (very hard to achieve this perfectly, thats because I said "not good either"), she's very good defending the advantage with din's fire, neutral-air or down-b.

It would help her a lot if she gets her neutral game buffed. Jab really needs to hit smaller/crouched characters. Maybe F-tilt could make less damage but be faster (less ending lag)
 
Last edited:

Strong-Arm

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 29, 2015
Messages
833
Location
Liberty, Missouri
NNID
stormfury
3DS FC
2836-0207-2430
Shes the best character in the game. Her sass breaks the game. :secretkpop:



Anyways in all seriousness shes underrated. She isn't terrible. She has options. But she isn't "great". Id say bottom 20, not bottom 10 tbh.
 
Top Bottom