I've been thinking...

[jbozz1217]

I know, surprising, right?

I have been spending a little more time lately on the Sheik board, and it is an understatement to say that I am impressed. Part of me almost feels like using Sheik as my main and Zelda more as the way I use Sheik now. With some of the (new?) techniques like just the overall usage of the chain, among others*, Sheik just really seems like a great idea. Not so sure, but just brainstorming a bit. Does anyone also feel that way?

*http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=178892

 

[25%Cotton]

i actually use sheik more now. i just have a TON of fun playing sheik. i have fun playing zelda, too... but i really need to work on aiming my attacks first... =\

 

[Iris]

I don't really have the patience to get them both equally good, but despite the transform time there's more reason than ever to use both in battle.

I just wish Zelda was getting the same attention in terms of new discoveries and extremely helpful techniques as Sheik is. It's starting to feel like Sheik has much more potential to improve than Zelda.

 

[mr_kennedy44]

I've actually just looking at Ankoku's thread about Sheik tricks and I have decided to started using Sheik more as well. Not as much as Zelda but definitely will be used.

 

[jbozz1217]

@ Iris: That is exactly how I feel. There are many (more or less) useful techniques, or the techniques that I would deem more trouble than they are worth... though, at least Sheik has a few more "tricks"...

 

[Mega-Japan]

Nearly every character is getting new Advance Techniques all the time, Link and Sheik are around the top and they don't seem to slow down. On the other hand, Zelda have little to none. I don't really count something like Naryu's Jump (or "Love Jump" like some of you like to call it) an advance technique but that's just personal opinion.

 

[Iron Thorn]

Well, I've been using both Zelda and Sheik since Melee days and I can tell you that using both will only help your game. Just the problem of when to use which one for which enemy.

...TO THE MATCHUP CHART!

 

[jbozz1217]

Yeah, and with that, I think we should take this discussion to the ever-more-flourishing Walk-In Closet Thread.

 

[leogeo2]

I haven't actually used Sheik much during Melee play but since Brawl has been around I've managed to pick him up and he's currently my secondary. I actually switch up depending on the character I'm fighting against. I feel that I have certain advantages and disadvantages depending on who I am fighting so it helps a bit.

...TO THE MATCHUP CHART!

 

[FirebyrdXX]

I mained Sheik in Melee so I have some initial skill with her, but I'm still trying to get really really good with Zelda atm. I'm very comfortable with her, but I can be better still. I like the idea of switching from Sheik to Zelda for the kill, I just with transformation was for it too.

 

[#HBC | Scary]

Believe it or not, I use Sheik so much more for a tempo change and to fix some of my matchup problems where I need a speed boost. I actually enjoy going back and forth between the two, seeing how each fare and going accordingly.

@ the matchup chart: I'm kind of surprised Sheik is neutral or at a disadvantage against the spacies. Has the ftilt lock not been taken into account? Not entirely certain how they are neutral or Falco advantage?

 

[jbozz1217]

On paper the idea of using Sheik against the spacies looks better than it really works out, at least for me.

Spacies tend to spam their lasers more on Sheik because she can't reflect them (obviously speaking), so this is one reason I use Zelda. I honestly don't even Nayru any lasers away... but I just use her to scare away the lasers before they even shoot.

The spaces have a LOT of KO power... that goes for all of them really (in the least, fox; in the most, wolf), and Sheik doesn't have as much. Sheik is great at racking up the damage, but she can't really kill unless she gets close enough with her Usmash.

I feel like Zelda can get closer, specifically to Falco, due to Din's and FW. Falco's reflector makes it nearly impossible for Sheik to really get in there well. Yeah I'm sure it's been done at some point...

Overally, IDK, I didn't make the chart. I do know, however, that having spoken to some 'spacies' users: They have become accustomed to the ftilt lock. A falco I just played managed to get out of it, and many of them say that they just watch out for it, or try not to let you get close enough to execute it. Through not allowing you to get close enough, it prevents you from doing any of your attacks.

Needles are no fun when they are reflected >.<

 

[#HBC | Scary]

On paper the idea of using Sheik against the spacies looks better than it really works out, at least for me.

Spacies tend to spam their lasers more on Sheik because she can't reflect them (obviously speaking), so this is one reason I use Zelda. I honestly don't even Nayru any lasers away... but I just use her to scare away the lasers before they even shoot.

The spaces have a LOT of KO power... that goes for all of them really (in the least, fox; in the most, wolf), and Sheik doesn't have as much. Sheik is great at racking up the damage, but she can't really kill unless she gets close enough with her Usmash.

I feel like Zelda can get closer, specifically to Falco, due to Din's and FW. Falco's reflector makes it nearly impossible for Sheik to really get in there well. Yeah I'm sure it's been done at some point...

Overally, IDK, I didn't make the chart. I do know, however, that having spoken to some 'spacies' users: They have become accustomed to the ftilt lock. A falco I just played managed to get out of it, and many of them say that they just watch out for it, or try not to let you get close enough to execute it. Through not allowing you to get close enough, it prevents you from doing any of your attacks.

Needles are no fun when they are reflected >.<

That's a really good point. I didn't think of it that way. I suppose the tilt lock becomes a situational thing now. I can already see Zelda throughout or even Sheik to Zelda for them. I can understand that they've grown accustomed to the lock since they've probably had to deal with it numerous times..

I guess just like the lock even needles become situational for them.

 

[S2]

I'm going to throw this out there now.

Sheik can compensate for a bad matchup much more than Zelda can.

She can use needles, her speed, and approaches to make up for a lack of priority. What I'm saying is that Sheik can abuse needles and simply punish mistakes, since some of her moves (f-smash and d-smash included) are so fast that they punish attacks that usually can't be punished.

When Zelda enters a bad matchup, usually it's because someone either gimps her projectile game or is able to match/get past her spacing priority (like how a fast character can running attack through the startup of an f-smash). For that loss, Zelda is still left with a weak aerial game and little approaches.

Sheik on the other hand, has many bad matchups due to priority issues (especially given her lackluster range).


For example, take G&W. A character who is a bad matchup for Sheik and Zelda. Sheik can either deter or punish much of G&W's moves, even if he outrprioritizes her.

For instance, G&W spamming b-air? Throw 1 needle into him every time he does it. He'll stop after a while. All of his smashes can be blocked and punished with one of your own.

The best part... Sheik can turn into Zelda once G&W hits 100%, meaning basically any Smash from Zelda will KO.


Keep in mind I play both. Who I use depends highly on the matchup. But Sheik can seriously fill in and make some troublesome matchups much much easier.

 

[Platformations]

Of course?

I hope this is common knowladge.

I use them both also... Down-B isn't the scourge of the world. My sheik is horrible, but it helps in some match-ups in a weird way.

Edit: Reading the whole topic next time would be cool...

Now I look like a douche

 

[jbozz1217]

It really isn't. Many people just stick to their main.

 

[Iron Thorn]

I've been a Zelda/Sheik main since I first picked up Melee back in '02, and I continue to play both. I can tell you, Sheik will help you A LOT. I encourage you to pick her up, and appreciate how much more feminine she looks this time around.

 

[SinkingHigher]

I haven't actually used Sheik much during Melee play but since Brawl has been around I've managed to pick him up and he's currently my secondary. I actually switch up depending on the character I'm fighting against. I feel that I have certain advantages and disadvantages depending on who I am fighting so it helps a bit.

How are they both neutral with Ike? The guy takes like 45 minutes to jump.

 

[leogeo2]

I only made the edited down version of the chart with just Zelda and Sheik that I use as a reference. I didn't make the comparison to the characters themselves, it's just something I cut up from what I found in the tactical forums. Now I don't really agree with the Ike thing as well. When I figured that I'd need to wait an extra second to dodge, hold block a little longer or just try and not attempt to dodge his uair rather that just getting the hell out of the way from it, I was fine against him.

I also have better chances against both Ness and Lucas with Zelda than I do Sheik, but that's just me. My Sheik playing isn't up to par to my Zelda playing though so that might be the cause of it.