Ivysaur Tactical Discussion

[PokemonMasterIRL]

Nair out of shield (Not quite AS good) watch Armada's Peach for the textbook on it.

Any of his vids at all will show case this.

Good out of shield options MAKE THE CHARACTER.


(that said I am all about Upsmash out of Shield with all three pokemon) <----(Zards is sooo OMG godlike, Squirtles is suprisingly big hits on both sides, and Ivys is just ultra mind gameszzz.)

 

[TheReflexWonder]

I need a picture of the range of Ivysaur's F-Air.

 

[Geenareeno]

I would say ask Steeler but it appears he can't do it anymore.

 

[PokemonMasterIRL]

Ivy's Fair into auto Dtilt is soo win. It makes a very tight wall when spaced well and intelligently.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

I think we could probably frame trap people falling to the ground with fullhop and shorthop F-Air, depending on the character. It would only give us, like, a grab or Dash Attack, but it puts people in a position to have to do it again, and it gives us a safe juggle option and an optimal throw (U-Throw).

 

[CoonTail]

I deffinitly see this because I have been using F-air a lot more lately and typically due to people's lack of knowledge of our character they think that Ivy F-air = Gannon F-air and will never autocancel.

Frame trapping with this would be very interesting, but using Ivy's U-throw just seems so weird.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

I am often surprised at how high above Ivysaur the F-Air starts. It is certainly worth looking into.

 

[CoonTail]

It seems to start higher than the top of the Bulb and the hitbox on it seems to cover the front 180 degrees of Ivy as the attack finishes.

F-air is good and I started to use it out of n-air because n-air -> n-air is an alright combo but goes nowhere besides to b-air or u-air(if they are really bad.....)

 

[GuruKid]

Ivysaur's Forward-air:

All of Fair's hitboxes are tied to her left vine. They emerge frame 14, and terminate frame 19.

The inside bold lines from the center of the circles to the circumference indicate the trajectory angle.

[collapse=Hitboxes frame-by-frame]

Frame 14:

Frame 15:

Frame 16:

Frame 17:

Frame 18:

[/collapse]

Hope that helps. Keep it strong, pimps.

Coontail it's been way too long. <3

 

[TheReflexWonder]

This is...amazing. Not the F-Air itself, but, these frame-by-frame animations.

 

[Steeler]

looks even more like a marth/ike fair than i'd imagined. shame it's so slow on startup/landing lag but it's still got its uses

 

[Tesh]

Dang, its practically an Uair.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

looks even more like a marth/ike fair than i'd imagined. shame it's so slow on startup/landing lag but it's still got its uses

Dang, its practically an Uair.

Exactly--That's why I think we should be able to try to use it as a frame trap.

 

[CoonTail]

looks even more like a marth/ike fair than i'd imagined. shame it's so slow on startup/landing lag but it's still got its uses

Well it can be autocanceled so that deff helps with landing lag at least.

Hope that helps. Keep it strong, pimps.

Coontail it's been way too long. <3

GURUU!!!! Where you been man it has been way to long!!!

 

[PokemonMasterIRL]

Fair can be AUTOCANCLLED.


Just for the hater that said its slow.

Fair into auto Dtilt is raaaaaaape.

 

[CoonTail]

Fair can be AUTOCANCLLED.


Just for the hater that said its slow.

Fair into auto Dtilt is raaaaaaape.

^this

10autocanceledf-airsintodtilt

 

[Steeler]

obviously it can be autocanceled; my point is that you pretty much cannot use the move near the ground, which limits its usefulness. it's still got great range tho so it's better than uair at catching air dodges to the ground, since it can be autocanceled.

 

[T-block]

it has enough shield pushback to be used against some characters

i loooove retreating f-air to f-smash. gets me so many cheesy kills lol

 

[CoonTail]

^GDLK

have to use more of that

 

[Supreme Dirt]

FAir's actually my kill move of choice. Simply because people don't realize quite how far below Ivysaur it reaches.

 

[-LzR-]

I like nair to fsmash as a finisher. Fsmash has amazing reach.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

I like nair to fsmash as a finisher. Fsmash has amazing reach.

It has amazing reach, and it hits on Ivysaur's butt before the attack goes forward.

 

[-LzR-]

Can't really see how that's useful really.

 

[Tesh]

The fact that it hits pretty much behind him is pretty significant considering the forward range as well. Not that this should happen against someone that knows the matchup, but I've had many people try to roll behind it and get hit anyway.

Its a good way to cover alot of ground when camping a landing too especially since Ivy's dsmash is so damn weak.

 

[Phiddlesticks]

charging fsmash so strongth, covers all ledge options and doesnt afraid of anything

 

[Célja]

F Smash is pretty awesome, I never actually got anyone with it on Ivy's butt, though I have managed to get someone by angleing it upwards on my friend. I also once managed to avoid getting killed by using FSmash. It's the next best move to me besides Bullet Seed, F-air, and Up Smash.

 

[-LzR-]

That stuff is surprisingly powerful too. It gives me hope against Marth. If he misspaces a smash or something you can simply Fsmash through.
What about jab guys? Is it outclassed by dtilt or is it useful? I saw Reflex use it a bit, but I don't know what to do with the move.

 

[Tesh]

I like to rapid jab at Snakes and see if they can figure out how to get through it. Hilarity generally follows.

Not sure if this counts for anything http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euNDrKvW7B8&t=42s

Its really only good for walling off things that force an opponent to do something laggy enough to stop jabbing and punish (or at least not get punished). I dont jab against good SHFFers

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Jab beats Mach Tornado if they insist on coming in at a low angle.

 

[links24]

somone plz tell me how this char is even called a char

 

[CoonTail]

^ please get off our boards and don't return.....


KthanksBYEEEE

 

[Geenareeno]

somone plz tell me how this char is even called a char

CHARizard. Get it?

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Shorthop N-Air spike into the ground might make for a useful KO setup. By itself, it can get decent frame advantage, but I think that landing it that way reliably is not going to happen.

However, having slight-to-decent frame advantage, combined with the fact that the opponent cannot move for a bit, would probably cause people to panic. That could mean anything from a defensive option like spotdodge or roll, to a safe attack like Snake's U-Tilt or Wolf's D-Smash. That said, stutter-step F-Smash (dashing away from the opponent) after landing from the N-Air spike would cover a lot. It outranges almost every offensive option, and charging the F-Smash allows you to release at the end of a spotdodge or roll toward you. If they shield, F-Smash is spaced well enough not to get punished, and you can hold it to make them hold their shield longer than they planned. A roll away avoids the F-Smash, but doesn't put Ivysaur at risk.

The initial dash creates perfect spacing for the F-Smash and is safe due to the slight frame advantage.

 

[T-block]

Should be added that once the charge animation is finished, the hitbox of f-smash comes out frame 1 after release, and is fully extended on frame 3, which is pretty damn fast.

 

[NJel]

This was probably mentioned before, and I'm sorry if it was, but what are good combos from both Ivysaur's NAir and BAir?

When I do Ivy's NAir, she tends to stall when she hits the ground, and I've only gotten good at chaining BAirs. Everytime I try to chain something else I end up messing up the combo lol

I use Razor Leaf as an opener, and I chain into Bullet Seed from FTilt.

Ivy's FAir is a beast lol

 

[TheReflexWonder]

This was probably mentioned before, and I'm sorry if it was, but what are good combos from both Ivysaur's NAir and BAir?

When I do Ivy's NAir, she tends to stall when she hits the ground, and I've only gotten good at chaining BAirs. Everytime I try to chain something else I end up messing up the combo lol

I use Razor Leaf as an opener, and I chain into Bullet Seed from FTilt.

Ivy's FAir is a beast lol

N-Air doesn't really combo into anything when landing, though if the opponent doesn't have a quick aerial (like Luigi N-Air or something) or doesn't react quickly, you can often jump again and N-Air a second time. However, when you get a N-Air while rising, you should be able to follow up with another N-Air, F-Air, or U-Air, depending on the opponent's percent.

As far as B-Air goes, B-Air -> F-Tilt is good for shieldpoking if their shield is bad or not full. Dashing at the opponent after landing a B-Air can allow you to shieldgrab (if you expect an aerial), Dash Attack (if you expect an airdodge), or Up-B (if you expect a jump away).

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Can anyone show me the hitbubbles for Ivysaur's N-Air? I need to know exactly how the spike works.

 

[PokemonMasterIRL]

I like the Zard avatar Luis.

 

[Dre89]

I don't know if this works at high levels of play, but I find that if your opponent is right at the edge, if you just jab them once, it knocks them off the edge but they'll still do the command they were trying to do offstage.

For example Ike may try to jab you, but you beat him to it and instead he nairs offstage. This puts a lot of characters in a bad position, especially because we can instant tether them for the gimp, or at ;east to set up the gimp.

 

[Dre89]

Soz for the double post, but I was wondering about Ivy's upb oos. I know that seems odd, but I thought it might be a safe way of hitting chars that like to control that zone and think their aerials are safe on shield (eg. Marth, Peach etc.).