Ivysaur Tactical Discussion

[Steeler]

you haven't lived until you've spiked ness with dair and then accidentally bullet seeded the head of their PKT for the kill

<3 timotee

 

[T-block]

accidentally lol

i like it

 

[IThinkAboutIvysaur]

Sometimes I wonder why people call something situational. Every move in the game is situational.

Dair has a situation where it is useful. The fact that we can't SH Dair all over the place shouldn't make it a bad move.

Every time somebody simply says a move is situational, a little part of me dies.

Some moves are more situational than others. There are more situations in which GaWs Bair or MKs Nado is a good option than situations where Ganon's Murder Punch is a good option.
So that makes Ganons B very situational and GaWs Bair and MKs Nado less situational.

 

[T-block]

there's a difference between situational moves where there are better options even in those situations, like squirtle's d-tilt, and situational moves where it really is the best option, like ivysaur's d-air.

i can't think of a better move to use against a falco that's recovering low, for example.

 

[IThinkAboutIvysaur]

there's a difference between situational moves where there are better options even in those situations, like squirtle's d-tilt, and situational moves where it really is the best option, like ivysaur's d-air.

i can't think of a better move to use against a falco that's recovering low, for example.

Aren't you confusing situational with outclassed?

Squirtle's Dtilt is not really super situational IMO it's just outclassed by his Ftilt.

 

[T-block]

That's the thing...words like that are so vague they don't even really mean anything. You toss out the word "situational" in the negative sense - to say that a move isn't that useful. So, to follow my example, I'd like to hear what you think would be a better move against a Falco that's using up-b from below to grab the edge.

You can say d-air is "situational", but all that should be taken from that is that there are times when d-air is a good move.. and the fact that it is not only a good move, but the best move to use in those situations means it adds to Ivysaur's potential, so it should not be dismissed as "junk".

 

[Kith]

Ivy's up air is too situational. What if the guy is under you?!

 

[typh]

i hate when i use dair and hit with it but it's the ****ty spike with no hitstun instead of the one that hits the opponent away like i wanted

 

[Steeler]

yeah it kind of pisses me off when i spike them onstage and get punished for it

 

[CoonTail]

Bleeh D-air on stage always does this to me and now Ive just been trying to land D-air spikes off after tether cancelling offstage.

 

[Miles.]

Tether To Dair ( Like at the full jump height when you tether straight up)

too good.

ledge hop dair is funny i kept doing it on accident during the tourney i went to, and i have no idea why but it always landed.

 

[Vermy]

I think i may have found a true setup for usmash.
Need to test this ALOT more, but i will divulge what i can now. If you guys wanna test and give soem feedback, we'll know what we've got.

We all know that Ivy's nair has some very special properties.
-the nose has insane priority, cancelling out many projectiles and attacks
-it soft spikes at the back
-it true combos into ftilt
-its amazing altogether

Now, i've found that every now and then when you nair a grounded opponent, they will trip mid-attack, but get hit by the rest of nair, knocking them out of the trip status. N'aww. I hear you saying "Having them trip guaranteed would be fantastic for ivy's mistake & punishment-heavy moveset. " Not much we can do about that, tough luck, cry cry.

BUT.

If an opponent is above you on a platform and you sh nair, you can fastfall the rest of the nair, and add a follow up. Now i'm not 100% sure of the frame advantage we have, but an usmash seems like the smartest option. If by some circumstance they get up before usmash's hitbox comes out, they can either:
-roll
-get up normally
-spotdodge
-shield (unless they PS, usmash will probably push them away, and possibly knock them off the platform, leading into a free follow up.)

Like i said, this needs more testing. But the trip is something we'll need to learn. The second hit of Squirtle's jab can trip, and i think we also need to explore possible follow ups rather than just grabbing.
HYPEHYPEHYPEUSMASHSETUP.

 

[T-block]

reflex made a thread on ivy's n-air trip a while ago. i really can't see the u-smash coming out fast enough to get them before they can recover from the trip though... it's probably more reliable to predict the roll? i know i have a tendency to roll away whenever i get hit by a tripping move.

 

[Vermy]

Still, options for a tech chase are rare. After a trip we've got a shot at landing something if we predict right. It's something. If Dedede can land an Fsmash, Ivy will have a setup to Usmash. >=D

What about knocking them out of shield off a platform? Aerial a shield, they get shield pressured off the platform, hyphen smash, boom -1 stock . (Y)

 

[TheReflexWonder]

reflex made a thread on ivy's n-air trip a while ago. i really can't see the u-smash coming out fast enough to get them before they can recover from the trip though... it's probably more reliable to predict the roll? i know i have a tendency to roll away whenever i get hit by a tripping move.

I believe it was Retro that did it.

Either way, you would get an easy U-Air from a read, I think.

EDIT: If someone makes a diagram for the initial Bullet Seed hitbox (in the air and on the ground), I'll love you forever, and I think that would help Ivysaur theorycrafting immensely.

 

[Miles.]

EDIT: If someone makes a diagram for the initial Bullet Seed hitbox (in the air and on the ground), I'll love you forever, and I think that would help Ivysaur theorycrafting immensely.

Looks at Toby and Shaya...

 

[Steeler]

i can do the grounded and aerial ones when i get off work, itll take me longer to do the hitbox under ivy for the aerial version

 

[Miles.]

work.

do work.

where do you work?

Also I want to know if there is a differnece betweeen the gournded and aerial versions of BS.

 

[Bestiarius]

Well, the aerial Bullet Seed is Ivy's best aerial. Airdodge through somebody under you and then **** them up the @$$.

 

[PkTrainerCris]

Doesnt aerial bulletseed have more range than grounded bullet seed?

 

[Steeler]

i work at a machine shop for airplane parts miles

manly badass stuff

 

[Vermy]

I work at a video game arcade. I play for free.

 

[IThinkAboutIvysaur]

I don't work at all.

 

[typh]

i work at a pokemart

i stock all different kinds of pokeballs

 

[Vermy]

Typh wins topic.

 

[Ryusuta]

Wow, this topic has seen a lot of activity today, hasn't it? Ironically, the threads for the two GOOD Trainer monsters sit relatively untouched...

 

[Vermy]

That kind of negative chit-chat is what holds ivy back from being bett.. awes.. amaz..


....less sh*t.

 

[Ryusuta]

That kind of negative chit-chat is what holds ivy back from being bett.. awes.. amaz..

....less sh*t.

I have to say, you legitimately put a smile on my face with this post. I needed that.

 

[Jupz]

Does Nair combo into Uair?

 

[Zigsta]

Does Nair combo into Uair?

Upair can be a follow-up if you nair high enough in the air and read the enemy's DI right. To my knowledge, though, this isn't a true combo.

 

[Vermy]

No. Nair>nair/bulletseed/ftilt/bair work.
If you're after a reliable way to land up air for damage, dthrow at early % (or dash attack at mid %) and punish their dodge. Also drop through a platform and uair = ****. Its probably my most reliable kill setup.

Fact: Uair is faster, more powerful and more disjointed than Fair.

I saw in the Zard Tactics thread that you've picked up PT. Welcome to PT boards. =)

 

[Jupz]

Ok thanks Btw just so you know I meant you were like fullhopping an Nair, you were going straight from Nair->Uair. Like no landing in between

And thanks for the welcome

 

[Toby.]

You can go from the nair to the uair, but its difficult because it requires specific percentages and positioning. It's still something to look out for though.

 

[Jupz]

Ok, thanks toby.

 

[PokemonMasterIRL]

So when you Typh Cancel Typhdash **** follows.

 

[typh]

what's a typh cancel

i forgot

 

[Bestiarius]

And what the heck is Typhdashing????????????????????????? Nobody will tell me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[PokemonMasterIRL]

Oh I invented Typh canceling Typh.

Its when you just walking Typh dash instead.

they think you are gunna typhdash but then you dont so the typh cancel ***** them.


its a Pro AT.

 

[Bestiarius]

What The #$%^%$#%^##^%@#%$%$#$%#### Is Typhdashing??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

 

[PokemonMasterIRL]

here enjoy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvFYmWUcpJs